I'm not worthy.
Opinion Our Rucks. Same story, different year.
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thebluelagoon
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im not hammer bashing, i couldn't agree more that he was the most improved player in the last four rounds last year. Give us more of it please! He is our go to ruck forward option no mistake and as a ruck forward, right up there in the top handful for rucking. champion data have his 2012 season as above average for a key forward.
make that form a consistent and he is a piece of the premiership puzzle
Hampson has cemented is spot over Warnock with todays effort. Had 2 great games and has looked like he has improved his marking in leaps and bounds. Cant see warnock going better than him
Hampson played really well today. Rowe and Casboult also playing well makes it hard for the other two ruckmen if his form continues. Good to see a big ruckman taking marks and kicking goals.
On top of his strong showing up forward today, Hampson had 16 hit outs to Giles' 7, and 10 hit outs to White's 6 (although he probably could have done better against the part-timer White).
Plenty of them to the advantage of our mids, too.
Plenty of them to the advantage of our mids, too.
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Its hard not to be smug about this. It really is. No really. Im trying.
DeeWong6996
Norm Smith Medallist
Hey fellas, sorry for the intrusion but may I ask how likely is Hamspon going to get a games this stage? Also, will he play more of ruck or forward role? Any answer is appreciated, thanks.
Most likely he'll be a forward/second ruckman.
At this stage, I'm not sure if Mick even knows who he will pick for round one, but I would player Hammer as back up to Kreuzer.
Jeremias
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I said a while back that Kreuzer is clearly our number 1 option in the ruck, with Hampson as his backup.
Hampson was excellent today, and you'd have to say that Warnock faces an uphill battle if he's to force his way into the senior side at the expense of either of the aforementioned two.
Hampson was excellent today, and you'd have to say that Warnock faces an uphill battle if he's to force his way into the senior side at the expense of either of the aforementioned two.
Yep ,whilst Terry Wallace rants on about how Warnock will replace Hampson season proper during the match wrap up. If it happens ,great ,cos it means Warnock will be tap rucking ,clunking marks around the ground and kicking countless goals.
thebluelagoon
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All three rucks are named for NAB 3 against Sammy Jacobs. I'm of the opinion that this week is earmarked for best 22 if available. then ease off next week before. although Gibbs is being rested, so that throws that theory.
with Casbolt and Rowe going out, clearly Hampson will play forward,
if Mick wants to have 2 talls up forward at all times, and with 2 talls going out of the team, i think all three are set to play together
jamo
henderson
and white
2.5 tall defenders .5 swinging to key forward
ruck
warnock
kreuzer
1.2 rucks .8 forward
key forward
Hampson
+ .5 defender and .8 ruck
making 2.3 key forwards
with Casbolt and Rowe going out, clearly Hampson will play forward,
if Mick wants to have 2 talls up forward at all times, and with 2 talls going out of the team, i think all three are set to play together
jamo
henderson
and white
2.5 tall defenders .5 swinging to key forward
ruck
warnock
kreuzer
1.2 rucks .8 forward
key forward
Hampson
+ .5 defender and .8 ruck
making 2.3 key forwards
major_blue
Senior List
Rd 1 will be interesting.
Surely we wont be playing to many talls against 1 decent ruckman and a spare sparts guy in vickery.
Probably the number will be determined on Waite getting up or not.
Surely we wont be playing to many talls against 1 decent ruckman and a spare sparts guy in vickery.
Probably the number will be determined on Waite getting up or not.
Dramoth
Premium Platinum
We are going to be struggling against Bitchmond this year with their 5 elite mids and their elite ruckman... I dont know how we are going to manage to beat them by less than 10 goals this year.
We may as well just throw a second rate side out there, can't beat them....
Ummmmm wait a minute.
Not convinced.
I had previously been bullish on Warnocks prospects of playing in the side but watching Kreuze and Hampson in the NAB CUp makes me less so.
The obvious thing to come out of it is how well Kreuze is moving. Given his talents, we're mugging ourselves if we don't have him around the pill as much as possible....and given his endurance, he doesn't need much of a rest.
The question then becomes whether it's worth carrying two other rucks (one of whom can really only play as a ruckman)? Not sure I see it anymore...Hampson gets the nod over Warnock because he can play forward and has shown himself to be a pretty effective ruckman around the ground too. If we carry Warnock on top of that, we're denying ourselves flexibility imo. I'd rather see a genuine marking forward like Casboult to complement Waite and Hampson/KReuzer up there
BluesBagger
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I have a feeling for NAB 3 Kreuzer will get the vest, Warnock will spend most of the time in the ruck and Hampson will spend most of his time up forward.
I think the pressure is on Warnock at this point to prove his worth for round 1.
I think the pressure is on Warnock at this point to prove his worth for round 1.
There was a pretty decent thread over on the Essendon board about the right number of "talls" for a side (here), and the prevailing opinion/evidence seemed to suggest about 7 is the right answer. Much more than that and you lose run and flexibility, less than that and you're out-gunned. Was a good discussion (except for all the Essendon supporters).
Along the same lines, I think this is the right line-up (and informs the ruck conversation):
Tall backs: #1 Jamison, #2 Henderson, #3 Watson/Laidler
Tall forwards: #1 Waite, #2 Casboult, #3 Hampson (relief ruckman)
Rucks: #1 Kreuzer
That's our 7 right there. You would think that Jamison, Henderson AND Watson in the one side might be too big/slow, except against the tallest of forward lines, so Laidler can play 3rd banana there. But it would be beneficial to get Watson some game time, as he's first replacement when Jamison gets hurt and is certainly a long term answer. Mix and match. Laidler plays 22 if fit as 3rd/4th, Watto can come in for special occasions to ensure he's ready when Jamo goes down (sad but true - the guy can't tie his shoelaces without hurting himself).
Likewise up forward, I think we "structure" around Casboult and Hampson (80/20 with Kreuzer) and accept that Waitey is our best forward, but only for 12 games a year. He's mobile and fast enough to play like a 3rd forward anyway, even though he's "the best". Huge bonus for us if Waite is fit. In this instance, if and when Waite is not available we could look at Rowe as the next in line and Mitchell as another potential option longer term.
This is all aligned to my thinking that:
1. 3 ruckmen does not work and is a terrible idea under every circumstance. Anyone suggesting it has something wrong with them.
2. The second ruckman MUST rest forward, and be dangerous (at least vaguely competent) when there. Hello, Hammer.
3. Our ruck "problem" is a strength. Shaun Hampson as "relief" ruckman should make absolutely mincemeat of the 192cm Leigh Brown-style hacks that some other teams will put up as second ruck. Hammer will annihilate Jackson Trengove or Quentin Lynch or probably even Mitch Clarke at straight rucking... so advantage: us!
4. Why the hell isn't Warnock the #2 at GWS or #1 at GCS right now and we have something new and cool and shiny to play with? Great injury insurance, yes, but he'll be the most expensive VFL ruckman going around by a mile.
5. Casboult is not *terrible* in the ruck, but he should be the 3rd best in any 22 we select, so he should only ever see a ruck contest if one of the big two is on the pine for a breather and the other is out of position. Ie. He should never be moved onto the ball, unless under exceptional circumstances.
Along the same lines, I think this is the right line-up (and informs the ruck conversation):
Tall backs: #1 Jamison, #2 Henderson, #3 Watson/Laidler
Tall forwards: #1 Waite, #2 Casboult, #3 Hampson (relief ruckman)
Rucks: #1 Kreuzer
That's our 7 right there. You would think that Jamison, Henderson AND Watson in the one side might be too big/slow, except against the tallest of forward lines, so Laidler can play 3rd banana there. But it would be beneficial to get Watson some game time, as he's first replacement when Jamison gets hurt and is certainly a long term answer. Mix and match. Laidler plays 22 if fit as 3rd/4th, Watto can come in for special occasions to ensure he's ready when Jamo goes down (sad but true - the guy can't tie his shoelaces without hurting himself).
Likewise up forward, I think we "structure" around Casboult and Hampson (80/20 with Kreuzer) and accept that Waitey is our best forward, but only for 12 games a year. He's mobile and fast enough to play like a 3rd forward anyway, even though he's "the best". Huge bonus for us if Waite is fit. In this instance, if and when Waite is not available we could look at Rowe as the next in line and Mitchell as another potential option longer term.
This is all aligned to my thinking that:
1. 3 ruckmen does not work and is a terrible idea under every circumstance. Anyone suggesting it has something wrong with them.
2. The second ruckman MUST rest forward, and be dangerous (at least vaguely competent) when there. Hello, Hammer.
3. Our ruck "problem" is a strength. Shaun Hampson as "relief" ruckman should make absolutely mincemeat of the 192cm Leigh Brown-style hacks that some other teams will put up as second ruck. Hammer will annihilate Jackson Trengove or Quentin Lynch or probably even Mitch Clarke at straight rucking... so advantage: us!
4. Why the hell isn't Warnock the #2 at GWS or #1 at GCS right now and we have something new and cool and shiny to play with? Great injury insurance, yes, but he'll be the most expensive VFL ruckman going around by a mile.
5. Casboult is not *terrible* in the ruck, but he should be the 3rd best in any 22 we select, so he should only ever see a ruck contest if one of the big two is on the pine for a breather and the other is out of position. Ie. He should never be moved onto the ball, unless under exceptional circumstances.
Agree. It is frought with danger and impacts out mobility too much
Maybe the wrong thread but I agree re the backs. Unless there is a specific matchup for Watson, should be Henderson, Jammo and Laidler...
So where do they go, then?
Do you propose we go with less talls than all the other successful teams? Who are the tall forwards if we're only playing 2 of them? Waite (I presume) is everyone's first choice when fit. Who is the second?
And basically, if you don't say "Hampson", you're either saying only ONE of our three rucks are playing OR you have a ruckman permanently on the bench - which is terrible, because it means a 2-man bench for rotations.
So if it's Waite-Hampson.... you're saying Casboult, Rowe, Mitchell et al... none of them play unless Waite's hurt?
Also, the idea that Walker "plays tall" is absolutely false. He's a mid-sizer. Yes, he can leap, but he's not a "target". He can't crash a pack. He's a fantastic option as a mobile mid-sizer, but you cannot in any way, shape our forward "structure" around Walker. That's why I think Casboult is the answer here. HE is the difference. He's not going to kick 50 or anything, but he's a sledgehammer of a bloke that you can kick to with confidence. Will transform our forward line and give the smalls substantially more chances.
I think 6 is the prefered number of talls (but I don't count Laidler).
Waite is mobile enough to play a 3-tall forward line (as long as Hammer is included).
Don't think we can play Krezer and Warnock in the same side, unless we get lots of injuries.
Waite is mobile enough to play a 3-tall forward line (as long as Hammer is included).
Don't think we can play Krezer and Warnock in the same side, unless we get lots of injuries.
Dramoth
Premium Platinum
Except that Waite isnt the slowest out there (although he might be losing a yard off his pace now).
Hampson is damned mobile for someone around 203cm tall and Casboult isnt the slowest on the park either and has good lateral movement.
In the case of other sides, going too tall might be an issue and impacts on their mobility, but I just dont see it being an issue for us.
thebluelagoon
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i'm not convinced that its going to work going forward, but they have trialed it tonight.
we have 3 above average rucks. but that doesnt make them above average forwards. Play the casbolt
Its the romance of making it work and the potential it could have to re-invent(somewhat) the game factor. We need to get over it and play two and thats that. I dont think the boundary line gameplan can be played without proper fwds to mark, crash packs and be ok below the knees.
So Hammer took about 5 contested marks and had 3 shots at goal, whilst Warnock was subbed out. This is over. 
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