Strategy Project: Gold Coast Takeover

[Matchu]

I have found this article from 2010 that really outlines that way people viewed the Suns and Titans back then. It was accepted by the public that the Titans had the market and the Suns were going to be fighting an uphill battle. As it turned out, the Titans got themselves into huge debt and a lot of fans turned their back on them while the Suns haven't really put a foot wrong to date. Funny how quickly perception can change!

Titans a blaze in the sun bot no united

CORPORATE governance in sport has never been more integral to the success of sporting codes as they scramble for scarce sponsorship dollars. But what are the leaders of our leading sporting organisations doing to ensure growth – both on balance sheets and in the stands?

At a recent Australian Institute of Company Directors (AICD) leadership forum three senior representatives got together to talk up the topic. A noticeable absentee was Gold Coast United chairman Clive Palmer, but that didn’t prevent the others from pitching the power of their respective brands.

Gold Coast Titans managing director Michael Searle (pictured), Gold Coast Football Club (GCFC) chairman John Witheriff and Gold Coast Blaze co-owner Owen Tomlinson discussed the governance issues and the individual challenges facing their high profile franchises.

The Titans are by far the most established of the three clubs, given the National Rugby League’s (NRL) was able to engage with a strong Gold Coast base of supporters shortly after establishment.

GCFC doesn’t have the same luxury, but chairman John Witheriff is optimistic the club can engage the ‘Gold Coast spirit’.

“If you want to learn anything from the Titans, the thing that they have done exceptionally well is that they have created this connection between the football club and the city, and if you don’t do that then you will fail,” says Witheriff.

“This (the new AFL franchise) needed to be linked to and be a part of this city. The core of the viability lay around this concept that if it was a community-owned club then we would be able to pick up on two things: the people’s passion for the Gold Coast and the people’s passion for the game.”

Witheriff says the club has received a ‘surprising’ level of sponsorship revenue from national corporations looking to break into the South East Queensland market.

“There is a growing awareness of this market and the accessibility through sporting teams.

“So I think that’s been something that we haven’t banked on,” he says.

“There’s also a growing desire for corporate Australia to deliver their corporate social responsibility by utilising sporting teams and we’ve found other sources of revenue in that space.

“The real challenge for us now is creating a game day experience that’s going to cause people to want to come and take a premium seat. If we can do that I think we’ll achieve our financial targets.”

When it comes to the Gold Coast Blaze, co-owner Owen Tomlinson says his sport doesn’t have the ‘rich history’ of AFL or rugby league in Australia, but points to upgrading facilities and a higher national profile as the key to finding a major sponsor.

“The sport drives us no better than our love of the Gold Coast, but basketball in Australia is bigger on the world scene than it is here,” says Tomlinson.

“We, as basketball on the Gold Coast, need a home of basketball. We have the Carrara basketball centre which is past its used-by date – being realistic – and it’s embarrassing that we’re the sixth largest city in the country and we couldn’t host any nationals or major titles.

“We have to continue doing our best to entertain the fans and raise the sport’s profile, but we do need the business community’s help.

“That’s the reality – we do need it especially because we haven’t got the TV contract these guys do.

“This year we have One HD and Channel 10 which is sensational for us and the product as it reaches a far bigger market. We just have to make it work and we need everybody here - and these are not the best of times obviously.”

Structure and stability
Having consolidated the Titans’ position as the Gold Coast’s leading sporting franchise in both sponsorship dollars and fan support, Searle has turned his attention on the future viability of the game as the NRL restructure committee chairman.

Researching endlessly on the corporate structures of the world’s biggest sporting competitions (American NFL and Major Baseball League, European Premier League etc), Searle is charged with the much-anticipated establishment of the game’s independent commission.

“For us to continue as a sporting business we needed to obtain some stronger corporate governance and the opportunity to move an equity partner (News Ltd) out of the game,” he says.

“So we will end up with a single entity controlling the whole game of rugby league, the first time in the history of rugby league that its corporate governance will be on a solid platform in our opinion. We believe our position is an evolution of the game of rugby league.

“At the moment it’s costing (the NRL) about $400,000 a month just in the licence fee that goes to News Ltd and the overall greater savings around the efficiency review that we have conducted is about $11 million a year.

“From a corporate governance point of view, the game will have a solid platform with independent directors that have strong business acumen and a new model that will allow greater cost savings and also better planning for moving forward.”

At GCFC the club must achieve stability to properly amalgamate into both the national competition and the Gold Coast’s corporate sponsorship.

Witheriff says leadership confidence is integral to the club’s stability and has implemented a board structure that will prevent a mass resignation or conflict of directors such as seen at the North Melbourne Kangaroos in 2007.

The GCFC board consists of eight directors who are elected by club members into specific offices of four terms. The model has been designed so at any one point, no more than two positions will be up for election.

“The issue about stability is that if you see clubs that are completely effectual, they may have a situation where a faction takes control of the club that then gets rid of the management, then the coach and ‘everything will be fine’,” says Witheriff.

“Quality performance comes from stability, commitment to continuous improvement, and a club driven by benchmarking. So if we are going to get the governance model right we have to focus on the question of stability.

“If you’ve got these three components it doesn’t matter if one faction is in charge or another. It might be different nuances, different outcomes and different people, but what you’ll end up with is a better outcome where you’ve got stability.”

 

[Matchu]

The Gold Coast Titans managed to gift the Suns a huge free kick today when they released their marquee player Jamal Idris. The Titans appear to be in shambles and the lack of stability is going to make the Suns a very attractive alternative for the public. More and more kids are going to make the switch as the Titans continue shoot themselves in the foot.

 

[RodneyMaynard]

The Gold Coast Titans managed to gift the Suns a huge free kick today when they released their marquee player Jamal Idris. The Titans appear to be in shambles and the lack of stability is going to make the Suns a very attractive alternative for the public. More and more kids are going to make the switch as the Titans continue shoot themselves in the foot.

Any truth to the rumour they'll use the cap space to make a play for Hunt?

Agreed though, Idris a big marketing loss. That club can't catch a break.

 

[Matchu]

Any truth to the rumour they'll use the cap space to make a play for Hunt?

Agreed though, Idris a big marketing loss. That club can't catch a break.

It's hard to say. Idris was reportedly on a huge contract so you'd have to think they would have a fair amount of cap space to make a play at him. However I'm not sure how responsible it is to give a big contract to a guy who has been out of the game for five years...

I don't know what to think of the Titans at the moment. Scott Prince twelve months ago and now Idris...

 

[Aucklander]

I don't know what to think of the Titans at the moment. Scott Prince twelve months ago and now Idris...

Don't be too worried, and in all honesty I don't think you really give a s**t, they'll be fine. They've still got a pretty decent side and those extra dollars will come in handy later in the season as they build for a future which looks pretty good.

 

[Matchu]

Don't be too worried, and in all honesty I don't think you really give a s**t, they'll be fine. They've still got a pretty decent side and those extra dollars will come in handy later in the season as they build for a future which looks pretty good.

What makes you so sure? A club legend was basically forced out last year and now their marquee player walks out on them two years into a five year deal. Not to mention the fact that their crowds have decreased for five consecutive seasons and the huge debt they were in not long ago. It doesn't really instill you with a lot of confidence if you are a fan of the club...

By the way, I do care about the longevity of the club. I've seen far too many GC sports clubs go under for my liking.

 

[RodneyMaynard]

Don't be too worried, and in all honesty I don't think you really give a s**t, they'll be fine. They've still got a pretty decent side and those extra dollars will come in handy later in the season as they build for a future which looks pretty good.

Really? I don't follow the game, so I only go by what I hear from those that do, but my Leaguie mates are unanimous in their opinion that the Titans will be awful this year.

 

[Aucklander]

What makes you so sure?

Well, I think this administration are smart enough to realise just how important the Titans are to the game in QLD. Granted they wont go to AFL lengths to ensure success is a given at some stage, but their presence is vital to the game, so I see them being around for a long time and flourishing.

A club legend was basically forced out last year

Didak, Jolly, Shaw all forced out at Collingwood last year. Are we in trouble too? No, of course we aren't. Player rotation is a natural progression in any sport. Obviously the Titans thought the time was right to let Prince go.

and now their marquee player walks out on them two years into a five year deal.

Umm, that is not true. He did not walk out, he asked for a release for family reasons and it was given. I'm sure if the need arises in other sports the same consideration would've been given.

Not to mention the fact that their crowds have decreased for five consecutive seasons and the huge debt they were in not long ago. It doesn't really instill you with a lot of confidence if you are a fan of the club...

That must be great for your crowd comparison threads , but as I said, the Titans are vital to the NRL in QLD so no need to panic or use scare tactics.

By the way, I do care about the longevity of the club.

No offense mate, but I just don't believe you, and really if you didn't what the heck. At the end of the day you're a Port or is it Suns fan? first and foremost.

Really? I don't follow the game, so I only go by what I hear from those that do, but my Leaguie mates are unanimous in their opinion that the Titans will be awful this year.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Obviously they won't threaten the top 4, but with a bit of luck, something they didn't have last year, I can see them slipping into the bottom part of the 8 and if they don't, they'll have a bucket load of cash to go shopping later in the year for a tilt at 2015.

Who knows, we may just see two GC sides playing off in PF's next year. That would be something.

 

[Matchu]

Well, I think this administration are smart enough to realise just how important the Titans are to the game in QLD. Granted they wont go to AFL lengths to ensure success is a given at some stage, but their presence is vital to the game, so I see them being around for a long time and flourishing.



Didak, Jolly, Shaw all forced out at Collingwood last year. Are we in trouble too? No, of course we aren't. Player rotation is a natural progression in any sport. Obviously the Titans thought the time was right to let Prince go.



Umm, that is not true. He did not walk out, he asked for a release for family reasons and it was given. I'm sure if the need arises in other sports the same consideration would've been given.



That must be great for your crowd comparison threads , but as I said, the Titans are vital to the NRL in QLD so no need to panic or use scare tactics.



No offense mate, but I just don't believe you, and really if you didn't what the heck. At the end of the day you're a Port or is it Suns fan? first and foremost.



Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Obviously they won't threaten the top 4, but with a bit of luck, something they didn't have last year, I can see them slipping into the bottom part of the 8 and if they don't, they'll have a bucket load of cash to go shopping later in the year for a tilt at 2015.

Who knows, we may just see two GC sides playing off in PF's next year. That would be something.

The administration understands how important the Gold Coast market is to them, not necessarily the Titans brand. A re-branded Gold Coast team seems a possibilty to me.

I actually do think the Pies are in trouble. I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped out of the eight this year.

Okay maybe he didn't walk out SBW style but he didn't even complete half of the deal he signed on for. He came into the team with huge potential and never really lived up to it. Fair to say the Titans would have been disappointed with what they got from him. As for it happening in other sports, it did happen with Krakeour at the Suns but list lodgement deadlines prevent a player from switching clubs whenever they want like they do in the NRL.

I have actually never mentioned that fact in my crowd comparison thread. I have however recognised that the Titans have pulled larger crowds than the Suns in both 2012 and 2013. I'm not as biased in my reporting as you may think.

Doesn't bother me if you don't believe the fact that I want the Titans to survive, I know the truth and that's all that matters. I am a Port supporter who lives on the Gold Coast and support my local teams as well. Like your goodself with Collingwood, I take an interest in both footy codes.

I have also mooted the idea of both GC teams doing well at the same time but the Suns seem like the safer bet in my opinion.

 

[Aucklander]

The administration understands how important the Gold Coast market is to them, not necessarily the Titans brand. A re-branded Gold Coast team seems a possibilty to me.

I don't see that, but that's only my opinion. They've re-branded it enough times.

I actually do think the Pies are in trouble. I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped out of the eight this year.

Remains to be seen. Have recruited well, quite possibly with an eye for the future. I still think we'll feature in finals.

Okay maybe he didn't walk out SBW style but he didn't even complete half of the deal he signed on for. He came into the team with huge potential and never really lived up to it. Fair to say the Titans would have been disappointed with what they got from him.

Over rated is the term I'd use, but yea, he never walked out on them.

As for it happening in other sports, it did happen with Krakeour at the Suns but list lodgement deadlines prevent a player from switching clubs whenever they want like they do in the NRL.

Yea, no doubt the NRL is less restrictive once players and clubs don't seem to get along. I know I'd prefer to be playing the game at the top level at a club who might want me rather than a season down in reserve grade where I'd most likely be let go anyway at the end of the year.

I have actually never mentioned that fact in my crowd comparison thread. I have however recognised that the Titans have pulled larger crowds than the Suns in both 2012 and 2013. I'm not as biased in my reporting as you may think.

I don't think your biased in that regard, you simply just post the totals as they come. I thought I'd read where people had questioned the numbers posted.

Doesn't bother me if you don't believe the fact that I want the Titans to survive, I know the truth and that's all that matters. I am a Port supporter who lives on the Gold Coast and support my local teams as well. Like your goodself with Collingwood, I take an interest in both footy codes.

To be perfectly honest, I'm more a local footy type of guy thanks in large part to my initial contact with the game in Victoria. I rarely get to see the Pies play live anymore due to my sons footy taking up the bulk of my time. Thanks heavens for IQ.

 

[Matchu]

I don't see that, but that's only my opinion. They've re-branded it enough times.



Remains to be seen. Have recruited well, quite possibly with an eye for the future. I still think we'll feature in finals.



Over rated is the term I'd use, but yea, he never walked out on them.



Yea, no doubt the NRL is less restrictive once players and clubs don't seem to get along. I know I'd prefer to be playing the game at the top level at a club who might want me rather than a season down in reserve grade where I'd most likely be let go anyway at the end of the year.



I don't think your biased in that regard, you simply just post the totals as they come. I thought I'd read where people had questioned the numbers posted.



To be perfectly honest, I'm more a local footy type of guy thanks in large part to my initial contact with the game in Victoria. I rarely get to see the Pies play live anymore due to my sons footy taking up the bulk of my time. Thanks heavens for IQ.

They certainly have re-branded plenty of times but this current brand is damaged in the locals eyes and may not be able to be salvaged in its current form.

You're right about Collingwood, time will tell. I was just simply pointing out that there are people who are worried about their future following a mini exodus.

I suppose with Idris it comes down to your definition of walking out. The facts are he will be spending the next three years (that was contracted to the Titans for) with Penrith. Perhaps it's time the NRL look into an official trade period so unhappy players can request a trade instead of terminating contracts a month before the preseason comp starts.

I see your point in the player benefits of a less restrictive system but it really brings the legitimacy of a contract signing into question. As I suggested before, perhaps it's time an official trade period was brought into the NRL.

If by questioning the numbers posted you mean the inflated numbers the Titans were posting then you are wrong again. I don't believe I have brought that up either but you can't exactly blame any other posters for bringing it up. It is extremely relevant to the topic.

Well I'm probably a little more fortunate with time I can allocate to watching sport. I probably saw around ten Titans games live in 2013 so I feel like I have a decent grip on how they're going.

 

[Aucklander]

They certainly have re-branded plenty of times but this current brand is damaged in the locals eyes and may not be able to be salvaged in its current form.

They need to tweek the game, not the Titans.

You're right about Collingwood, time will tell. I was just simply pointing out that there are people who are worried about their future following a mini exodus.

More people seem worried about the coach. Personally, I was happy with the changes as I never saw Jolly or Didak getting much game time. I do feel kind of sorry for Shaw though. Still, at least he's going to the Giants when they should be starting to climb the ladder and their crowds start growing.

I suppose with Idris it comes down to your definition of walking out.

That's true. You could make it seem like some sort of leg up for your other team, or you could acknowledge he had family issues which needed his urgent attention and something which the club and NRL felt were legitimate.

I see your point in the player benefits of a less restrictive system but it really brings the legitimacy of a contract signing into question.

Not really. I'm sure it happens in other sports.

As I suggested before, perhaps it's time an official trade period was brought into the NRL.

I'm not sure that would work when you factor in the UK element with the opportunities and money available there.

Well I'm probably a little more fortunate with time I can allocate to watching sport. I probably saw around ten Titans games live in 2013 so I feel like I have a decent grip on how they're going.

That's great. Maybe you could pop into the RL section every now and then and share your thoughts on game days.

Oh, good luck with the takeover too.

 

[Matchu]

They need to tweek the game, not the Titans.

I'm not so sure that is the case. A lot locals were burnt through the scandals that have rocked the club in the last few years. You would be hard pressed to find a Gold Coaster wearing a Titans jersey around these days but you would have seen tons five years ago.

More people seem worried about the coach. Personally, I was happy with the changes as I never saw Jolly or Didak getting much game time. I do feel kind of sorry for Shaw though. Still, at least he's going to the Giants when they should be starting to climb the ladder and their crowds start growing.

Well the future of Bucks won't look bright if they don't make finals in 2014 but going off what I have heard about the inner workings of the club, there seems to be a clique like nature. You're either in or you're out.

That's true. You could make it seem like some sort of leg up for your other team, or you could acknowledge he had family issues which needed his urgent attention and something which the club and NRL felt were legitimate.

Well that is a fair point. He said there were issues with his mother's health and I'm inclined to believe him but it just doesn't look good when guys are constantly terminating contracts early.

Not really. I'm sure it happens in other sports.

It does happen in other sports but I think the AFL does the right thing by not allowing it.

I'm not sure that would work when you factor in the UK element with the opportunities and money available there.

Well then they should go the whole nine yards and introduce a draft system as well. That way, the only way you can get into the NRL is through the draft and that encourages trading between clubs.

That's great. Maybe you could pop into the RL section every now and then and share your thoughts on game days.

Well I could but I wouldn't want to risk a ban for being a troll. Not that I would be trolling, I just have strong views on the NRL.

Oh, good luck with the takeover too.

I'm not the one trying to takeover. This thread was purely started because it was something I had noticed by living on the Gold Coast.

 

[Aucklander]

I'm not so sure that is the case. A lot locals were burnt through the scandals that have rocked the club in the last few years. You would be hard pressed to find a Gold Coaster wearing a Titans jersey around these days but you would have seen tons five years ago.

Gosh. Sounds grim. Still, the 15th reincarnation of the Titans isn't the way to effect change. I think you may even have touched on it in an earlier post when you said Rugby league people had turned to Aussie Rules because of the product. I know its what attracted me, although I remain a Rugby league fan too. I think that's a far more important strategy.

Well the future of Bucks won't look bright if they don't make finals in 2014 but going off what I have heard about the inner workings of the club, there seems to be a clique like nature. You're either in or you're out.

I think you under-estimate the influence of Ed. Tell ya what, if the Pies don't play finals I'll pop a Suns avatar up for a week.

Well that is a fair point. He said there were issues with his mother's health and I'm inclined to believe him but it just doesn't look good when guys are constantly terminating contracts early.

You make it sound like an epidemic when it really isn't.

Well then they should go the whole nine yards and introduce a draft system as well. That way, the only way you can get into the NRL is through the draft and that encourages trading between clubs.

Rugby league doesn't need a draft or a trade period. It might, though, need to chuck concessions to places like Melbourne, Nth Queensland, Perth down the track and New Zealand.

Well I could but I wouldn't want to risk a ban for being a troll. Not that I would be trolling, I just have strong views on the NRL.

Ease up there champ. I merely mentioned you pop in and give your views on all those games you watch. We certainly wouldn't support a crowd comparison thread which IMO is troll bate, but there's no reason why you couldn't discuss other issues which might interest you.

I'm not the one trying to takeover. This thread was purely started because it was something I had noticed by living on the Gold Coast.

Again, good luck with that. Hopefully Rugby league doesn't just sit back and let it happen.

 

[GC2015]

Just released by the club. We're certainly growing!

Die hard rugby league fans on the Gold Coast are openly swapping their allegiance, with many Gold Coasters preparing to #FIREUP this season according to Mermaid Waters resident Carlee Raabe.

A once hard-core Brisbane Broncos supporter, Raabe was first introduced to “Australia’s Game” after watching her first Gold Coast SUNS match at Metricon Stadium in 2011, and claims she hasn’t looked back since.

"I went to a SUNS game when I first moved to the Coast in 2011 and I didn't understand it," Raabe told the Gold Coast Bulletin.

"But someone explained it to me and three games later I was hooked.

"I haven't followed the Broncos since 2011 and I've been a full AFL convert since I was first introduced to the SUNS. My weekends now revolve around going to Gold Coast SUNS games and watching other AFL games on television."

And it seems Raabe isn’t the only Gold Coaster experiencing the premier match-day experience at Metricon Stadium.

Yesterday the Gold Coast SUNS membership figure stood at 8,430, and GC SUNS General Manager of Marketing, Fan Development and Community – Kelly Ryan said support was on the rise.

"It's definitely our best year so far and we're tracking about 11 per cent ahead of where we were this time last year," Ryan said.

"No doubt the performance of the team at the end of last season is helping ... and people that were sitting on the fence or watching from afar are starting to jump on board.

"We had 12,500 members last season and our aim is for more than that this year."

 

[Matchu]

Gosh. Sounds grim. Still, the 15th reincarnation of the Titans isn't the way to effect change. I think you may even have touched on it in an earlier post when you said Rugby league people had turned to Aussie Rules because of the product. I know its what attracted me, although I remain a Rugby league fan too. I think that's a far more important strategy.

So how do the Titans turn things around with an inferior product?

I think you under-estimate the influence of Ed. Tell ya what, if the Pies don't play finals I'll pop a Suns avatar up for a week.

Interesting bet. I suppose this means I'll have to wager something as well to make it fair?

You make it sound like an epidemic when it really isn't.

Well when you lose Scott Prince in 2012 and then Jamal Idris the following season, it's only natural to presume something around the club isn't right. Sure, you can justify Idris but can you give me a genuine reason as to why Prince was pushed out?

Rugby league doesn't need a draft or a trade period. It might, though, need to chuck concessions to places like Melbourne, Nth Queensland, Perth down the track and New Zealand.

So essentially your idea is to give concessions to every team that isn't based in NSW and south east QLD? How could you possibly justify that to the fans?

Ease up there champ. I merely mentioned you pop in and give your views on all those games you watch. We certainly wouldn't support a crowd comparison thread which IMO is troll bate, but there's no reason why you couldn't discuss other issues which might interest you.

I wouldn't start a crowd comparison thread because I know how sensitive RL fans can be. I wonder though, if things are going so well for the Titans and they do currently reign supreme (higher crowds for two of the last three years), then why be so unwilling to discuss it?

Again, good luck with that. Hopefully Rugby league doesn't just sit back and let it happen.

If there is one thing I have learnt about the Titans/NRL it's that they tend to shoot themselves in the foot a lot. The Titans had the Gold Coast market completely sewn up when the Suns entered the AFL but you could very well make the argument now that both teams sit around equal.

 

[Aucklander]

So how do the Titans turn things around with an inferior product?

They'd obviously need support from the NRL in tweeking the game. It's not like it's that inferior that we need to make drastic changes.

Interesting bet. I suppose this means I'll have to wager something as well to make it fair?

No need. I'm that confident.

Well when you lose Scott Prince in 2012 and then Jamal Idris the following season, it's only natural to presume something around the club isn't right. Sure, you can justify Idris but can you give me a genuine reason as to why Prince was pushed out?

The same reason we (Collingwood) pushed out, Dawes, Jolly, Didak and co. The same reason other AFL clubs do it. Why is that so hard to accept when it comes to the Titans? Is there an agenda here?

So essentially your idea is to give concessions to every team that isn't based in NSW and south east QLD? How could you possibly justify that to the fans?

Yes and easy. Tell them it's right for the game. AFL fans have accepted the massive leg ups given to the Suns and GWS for the good of the game, so why wouldn't Rugby league fans? I'm really only talking an extra 2-300k in salary and I'm ho-hum as to whether the Cowboys would/should get some. A Premiership in NZ would be a massive lift for the code.

I wouldn't start a crowd comparison thread because I know how sensitive RL fans can be.

You mean us RL fans? and yes they can be because crowd numbers are constantly shoved down their throats by people who like to gloat.

I wonder though, if things are going so well for the Titans and they do currently reign supreme (higher crowds for two of the last three years), then why be so unwilling to discuss it?

Because it's meaningless and we don't care. Why? Because we support both codes.

If there is one thing I have learnt about the Titans/NRL it's that they tend to shoot themselves in the foot a lot. The Titans had the Gold Coast market completely sewn up when the Suns entered the AFL but you could very well make the argument now that both teams sit around equal.

You also said there has been decent following of the game on the Coast so is it really that surprising? Throw in millions of dollars at the grass roots, a side which has been built to guarantee success sooner rather than later and this is simply the end result.

Enjoy the surge in popularity, but as we've seen with the NRL, you only need to lose your way for a moment for the opposition to come up and bite you on the bum.

 

[Matchu]

They'd obviously need support from the NRL in tweeking the game. It's not like it's that inferior that we need to make drastic changes.

What exactly do you mean by tweeking the game? Giving concessions? Offering more of a game day experience? The Titans have already announced that they will be borrowing ideas from the Suns in an attempt to engage with their audience. Tweets and the like on the big screen etc.

No need. I'm that confident.

That's noble of you. To make it fair I'll do the same thing with a Titans avatar.

The same reason we (Collingwood) pushed out, Dawes, Jolly, Didak and co. The same reason other AFL clubs do it. Why is that so hard to accept when it comes to the Titans? Is there an agenda here?

Well Prince described the whole situation as "confusing" and made no secret of the fact that he wanted to retire as a Titan. Maybe I'm getting carried away here but it just doesn't seem right to me.

Yes and easy. Tell them it's right for the game. AFL fans have accepted the massive leg ups given to the Suns and GWS for the good of the game, so why wouldn't Rugby league fans? I'm really only talking an extra 2-300k in salary and I'm ho-hum as to whether the Cowboys would/should get some. A Premiership in NZ would be a massive lift for the code.

There is a bit of a difference between two brand new clubs and NRL clubs that have existed for a while now. By 2015 the Suns will be operating under the same conditions as the rest of the AFL and, comparatively, there are no clubs in the NRL that have existed for less than four years. I just think the NRL needs to start running the code more professionally if they want to compete with the AFL and that means introducing concepts like a national draft.

You mean us RL fans? and yes they can be because crowd numbers are constantly shoved down their throats by people who like to gloat.

I wouldn't say I'm an NRL fan, I'd say I'm an NRL observer. I know what is going on and I do enjoy the product from time to time but saying I'm a fan might be going a bit far. No gloating in my camp mate, you know I've acknowledged the Titans have been the stronger of the two in the last three years.

Because it's meaningless and we don't care. Why? Because we support both codes.

It's not meaningless. It's a good way of understanding how many people are consuming your product. It's very easy to turn on your tv but actually going to a game and spending money takes some effort. Suns fans don't seem to have a problem discussing it (despite the fact that they are losing) so why can't others?

You also said there has been decent following of the game on the Coast so is it really that surprising? Throw in millions of dollars at the grass roots, a side which has been built to guarantee success sooner rather than later and this is simply the end result.

Well it is surprising because I wasn't aware of how many Aussie rules fans there actually are on the GC. I suppose they all came out of the wood work when the city got its own team. I don't know about guaranteed success. Nothing is guaranteed in sport but there is a very good chance they'll succeed. It'll be hard for the Titans to compete with a successful Suns product.

Enjoy the surge in popularity, but as we've seen with the NRL, you only need to lose your way for a moment for the opposition to come up and bite you on the bum.

Absolutely. Can't agree more. The Gold Coast market is reactive to a side who puts time into the community which is why the basketball and soccer didn't stand a chance here. The Titans were very good at engaging with the community in their earlier years but really took the foot off the pedal in the last 4-5 years. The Suns were created with a community model in mind and they do so much work in the community that it has really put the Titans to shame. In fact, I read somewhere that the Suns do double the community work of any other AFL team so that gives you a bit of an idea of the effort they put in.

 

[RodneyMaynard]

http://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/news/2014-01-17/league-converts-fireup

Die hard rugby league fans on the Gold Coast are openly swapping their allegiance, with many Gold Coasters preparing to #FIREUP this season according to Mermaid Waters resident Carlee Raabe.
A once hard-core Brisbane Broncos supporter, Raabe was first introduced to “Australia’s Game” after watching her first Gold Coast SUNS match at Metricon Stadium in 2011, and claims she hasn’t looked back since.

edit - beaten by GC2015 lol

 

[Aucklander]

http://www.goldcoastfc.com.au/news/2014-01-17/league-converts-fireup

edit - beaten by GC2015 lol

A hardcore Broncos supporter?

LoL

What exactly do you mean by tweeking the game?

The rules. As I said, not much needs to be done as it's not that inferior. Maybe an increase on the interchange, but certainly not anything like the AFL use as Rugby league needs to maintain that physical contest.

That's noble of you. To make it fair I'll do the same thing with a Titans avatar.

If you must, make it a Collingwood one.

Well Prince described the whole situation as "confusing" and made no secret of the fact that he wanted to retire as a Titan. Maybe I'm getting carried away here but it just doesn't seem right to me.

Carried away? No. Your continued refusal to allow the Titans to refresh their list like all other clubs do with younger players simply comes back to your agenda here.

There is a bit of a difference between two brand new clubs and NRL clubs that have existed for a while now. By 2015 the Suns will be operating under the same conditions as the rest of the AFL and, comparatively, there are no clubs in the NRL that have existed for less than four years. I just think the NRL needs to start running the code more professionally if they want to compete with the AFL and that means introducing concepts like a national draft.

A draft is pointless with elite comps in two countries on opposite sides of the world and the NRL has clearly lifted its game in many areas.

I wouldn't say I'm an NRL fan

True. You actually remind me of stewie.

It's not meaningless. It's a good way of understanding how many people are consuming your product. It's very easy to turn on your tv but actually going to a game and spending money takes some effort. Suns fans don't seem to have a problem discussing it (despite the fact that they are losing) so why can't others?

It's a pissing contest. We already know who has the bigger crowds and I've got no doubt the Suns will takeover in that regard too. It's stock standard right across the country except for in GWS.

Well it is surprising because I wasn't aware of how many Aussie rules fans there actually are on the GC.

Yet you said there was a decent following earlier in the thread.

 

[Covertackle]

Soccer Australia do skills training clinics at pre school aged child care centres, basically as soon as they can walk..before they can talk. Waiting until Primary school is now too late..

 

[Matchu]

The rules. As I said, not much needs to be done as it's not that inferior. Maybe an increase on the interchange, but certainly not anything like the AFL use as Rugby league needs to maintain that physical contest.

I suppose that could work. They need to get excitement back into the game. Personally, I find it hard to sit through an entire game of RL and I think that has a lot to do with a lack of scoring. I recall a game I went to in 2011 at Robina between the Titans and Broncos and there was one try scored in the first half. Needless to say it was scored after the halftime siren. That meant we were sitting there for 45 minutes watching repeat sets with no scoring. Run, tackle, get up, pass, repeat. With a few kicks here and there.

Granted, this is just one example of a low scoring game but the lack of scoring really gets to me sometimes. Perhaps I just don't appreciate defensive efforts as much as I should but I prefer high scoring sports like Aussie rules and Basketball.

If you must, make it a Collingwood one.

You're pushing the friendship now...

Carried away? No. Your continued refusal to allow the Titans to refresh their list like all other clubs do with younger players simply comes back to your agenda here.

That's the thing, I don't think he needed to be pushed out at the end of 2013. I think he had one more year left in him and he was contracted for that year. If what you say is true then why have they not let go of a guy like Luke Bailey? He is 34 years old now.

I don't have an agenda. I believed Princey had one more year left in him and I don't understand why they let him go. I know the Titans breached the salary cap in 2013 so perhaps that was why they let him go, which is a completely legitimate reason but I don't believe they pushed their captain out who had one year left on his contract just to make room for younger talent. It's not like they had a ready made halfback replacement at the time anyway. Sure, Albery Kelly showcased his abilities in 2013 but he was not at the club at the end of the 2012 season when Prince was pushed out. You can't tell me the club thought a guy like Jordan Rankin was ready to take over Princey at the end of 2012?

A draft is pointless with elite comps in two countries on opposite sides of the world and the NRL has clearly lifted its game in many areas.

Elite? I wouldn't describe the Super League as elite. The NRL is the strongest RL competition in the world and only washed up players or guys looking for a pay day head over to the Super League. Also, didn't the Super League just cut down the amount of teams they have in the top flight? Think what you will but I think the NRL would be better off having a national draft.

True. You actually remind me of stewie.

Don't know who that is so I can't really make a comment.

It's a pissing contest. We already know who has the bigger crowds and I've got no doubt the Suns will takeover in that regard too. It's stock standard right across the country except for in GWS.

It's not a pissing contest when it comes to the Gold Coast. I see your point when trying to compare the Storm and Collingwood but both Gold Coast teams are very even at this point in time. Competition usually brings out the best in both teams which is why it is so interesting.

Yet you said there was a decent following earlier in the thread.

Yes. There is a decent following. There has been for a long time but that doesn't mean I expected them to be on the same level as the Titans. I find it interesting to discuss the Gold Coast sports market because I live here.

 

[Aucklander]

I suppose that could work. They need to get excitement back into the game.

Nope. They need to add more excitement.

Personally, I find it hard to sit through an entire game of RL and I think that has a lot to do with a lack of scoring. I recall a game I went to in 2011 at Robina between the Titans and Broncos and there was one try scored in the first half. Needless to say it was scored after the halftime siren. That meant we were sitting there for 45 minutes watching repeat sets with no scoring. Run, tackle, get up, pass, repeat. With a few kicks here and there.

Granted, this is just one example of a low scoring game but the lack of scoring really gets to me sometimes. Perhaps I just don't appreciate defensive efforts as much as I should but I prefer high scoring sports like Aussie rules and Basketball.

Defense wins titles. RL, AL, RU, Soccer, BB, NFL etc. etc. are won by teams with good defenses. Even the AFL thinks they need to slow the game down by enforcing a interchange cap.

You're pushing the friendship now...

That's the thing, I don't think he needed to be pushed out at the end of 2013. I think he had one more year left in him and he was contracted for that year. If what you say is true then why have they not let go of a guy like Luke Bailey? He is 34 years old now.

Maybe they wanted to keep him? I don't know.

I don't have an agenda. I believed Princey had one more year left in him and I don't understand why they let him go. I know the Titans breached the salary cap in 2013 so perhaps that was why they let him go, which is a completely legitimate reason

I don't think a 16k breach would be the reason. They obviously didn't see the point in hanging on to someone they didn't want, or see in their future so released him rather than let him rot down in the Queensland Cup.

Elite? I wouldn't describe the Super League as elite.

Why not? It's where the best players from the UK and France gather to play. The standard is very good and I think it more than matches Aussie Rules for excitement due to the looseness of the games.

The NRL is the strongest RL competition in the world and only washed up players or guys looking for a pay day head over to the Super League.

I think you may be showing your lack of knowledge there.

Also, didn't the Super League just cut down the amount of teams they have in the top flight?

Nope. Still 14.

It's not a pissing contest when it comes to the Gold Coast.

I believe it is and it will take a lot change my view on that.

Yes. There is a decent following. There has been for a long time but that doesn't mean I expected them to be on the same level as the Titans.

I'm not surprised.

I find it interesting to discuss the Gold Coast sports market because I live here.

That's cool. Been a good debate.

 

[Covertackle]

I was a hard core RL player and supporter. A rep player, coached and introduced my son to it.

Rule changes that have supported keeping 110-30kg monsters in the game, rule changes that have taken skill out of the game, rule changes that have made the game boring and predictable, began my bemusement.

Then my young fella started playing AFL. Then I started watching it on tele. Then we began going to games. WHAT A BREATH OF FRESH AIR!!

RL is a brutal attack on the ball carrier. AFL is a masterfull attack on the footy.

So many parents I talk to at Junior AFL games areex-RL fans. They agree with me. RL has changed. But more importently, they have been seduced by the grace and skill of AFL.

RL is wilting. AFL growth is exploding in QLD.

 

[Matchu]

Nope. They need to add more excitement.

I think they used to have excitement but have lost it in recent years. I used to love watching Princey go to work every week and little Preston Campbell playing fullback. Matty Rogers was great too. In my opinion they've lost the edge they used to have.

Defense wins titles. RL, AL, RU, Soccer, BB, NFL etc. etc. are won by teams with good defenses. Even the AFL thinks they need to slow the game down by enforcing a interchange cap.

I agree with you but I just personally enjoy watching a fast paced game with lots of scoring. That's not to say I can't enjoy a game of RL, it's just it isn't my favourite sport.

Maybe they wanted to keep him? I don't know.

Well clearly they did but how often does a club push a foundation player and their captain out the door when they have one year left on their contract?

I don't think a 16k breach would be the reason. They obviously didn't see the point in hanging on to someone they didn't want, or see in their future so released him rather than let him rot down in the Queensland Cup.

Well if they were 16k over then how much would they have been over if Prince's full salary had been included in their cap? Well perhaps you're right about him being sent to the Queensland Cup if he had stayed but there are benefits to keeping veterans on your list as well.

Why not? It's where the best players from the UK and France gather to play. The standard is very good and I think it more than matches Aussie Rules for excitement due to the looseness of the games.

Yes but the standard doesn't compare to week in, week out of the NRL.

I think you may be showing your lack of knowledge there.

I don't think I am. I mean come on, guys like Steve Menzies? Brett Hodgson? Trent Waterhouse?

Nope. Still 14.

Super League announces big changes, cut to 12 teams

I believe it is and it will take a lot change my view on that.

Well that's fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion and no one is forcing you to discuss it. You were the one that brought it up in the first place.

I'm not surprised.

Why aren't you surprised? Surely you were aware of how well the Titans were going prior to 2011?

That's cool. Been a good debate.

No worries. Always up for a debate.

I was a hard core RL player and supporter. A rep player, coached and introduced my son to it.

Rule changes that have supported keeping 110-30kg monsters in the game, rule changes that have taken skill out of the game, rule changes that have made the game boring and predictable, began my bemusement.

Then my young fella started playing AFL. Then I started watching it on tele. Then we began going to games. WHAT A BREATH OF FRESH AIR!!

RL is a brutal attack on the ball carrier. AFL is a masterfull attack on the footy.

So many parents I talk to at Junior AFL games areex-RL fans. They agree with me. RL has changed. But more importently, they have been seduced by the grace and skill of AFL.

RL is wilting. AFL growth is exploding in QLD.

Nice insight. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is a generational change that the Suns will not see the benefit of for at least ten years. I suppose the idea is that once RL supporters give Aussie rules a chance, they will soon recognise which game is better for them and their kids. Obviously it worked in your case.

Aussie rules has so much potential in Queensland, it just need the right push. I mean we live in the third most populated part of Australia which will overtake Victoria in terms of population in the not too distant future. We have an enormous indigenous population that is virtually untapped by the AFL. These kids are seriously talented and let's just hope the Suns foster their talent correctly given north Queensland is a part of their zone. Not to mention the talent that comes out of the Gold Coast as well.

Anyway, big ups to you mate for giving the game a go and falling in love with it like the rest of us. Hopefully we can share this amazing game with the rest of Queensland.