Recycled Players: Premiership Players?

[docko911]

Understand what you are saying, but maybe winning 15 games meant these kids didn't much of a crack. Add to that the fact we had a good year injury wise as well.

Well we didn't need to recruit Ricky Petterd because he has had absolutely no influence over our performance, I still don't know what he really does. He did a couple nice things against Carlton which must be all Dimma sees when selecting his team. He is no forward or defender, and doesn't have the running capacity to be a midfielder.
Ricky played 12 games last year... These games could have been played by Batchelor (IMO one of our most promising defenders yet career has been ruined) or Astbury or Dea.

If we weren't going to keep McGuane (I actually thought he had a good year) why did he play 12 games, and why did we recruit A.Edwards and let him play 9 games. This all happened while we had Griffiths and Elton stuck in the VFL losing confidence.... Do we really think that Griffiths just learnt how to play football over summer or maybe is it that he is finally being allowed to play in a position he is comfortable with?

Then you had Shaun Grigg, Shane Edwards and Nathan Foley who all played many average games yet combined played a total of 59 games for the season. Grigg and Edwards turned to butter in the Elimination final and proved they don't deserve to feel safe in their position. Take away 19 of those games and we could have given a run to Arnot, McDonough and Helbig that might have proved vital to their development.

The way we treat our draft picks... We may as well give away any pick after 20 because there not going to be given opportunities when they should be, and as a result we ruin confidence and eventually careers.

Can't for once we drop blokes who were not the last in...

 

[TheDyerLegacy]

One-third of our list is...




s**t?

 

[TiggerMan22]

Well we didn't need to recruit Ricky Petterd because he has had absolutely no influence over our performance, I still don't know what he really does. He did a couple nice things against Carlton which must be all Dimma sees when selecting his team. He is no forward or defender, and doesn't have the running capacity to be a midfielder.
Ricky played 12 games last year... These games could have been played by Batchelor (IMO one of our most promising defenders yet career has been ruined) or Astbury or Dea.

If we weren't going to keep McGuane (I actually thought he had a good year) why did he play 12 games, and why did we recruit A.Edwards and let him play 9 games. This all happened while we had Griffiths and Elton stuck in the VFL losing confidence.... Do we really think that Griffiths just learnt how to play football over summer or maybe is it that he is finally being allowed to play in a position he is comfortable with?

Then you had Shaun Grigg, Shane Edwards and Nathan Foley who all played many average games yet combined played a total of 59 games for the season. Grigg and Edwards turned to butter in the Elimination final and proved they don't deserve to feel safe in their position. Take away 19 of those games and we could have given a run to Arnot, McDonough and Helbig that might have proved vital to their development.

The way we treat our draft picks... We may as well give away any pick after 20 because there not going to be given opportunities when they should be, and as a result we ruin confidence and eventually careers.

Can't for once we drop blokes who were not the last in...

So basically you want us to gift them games? When they play well enough they will get a game. Simple as that.
Griffiths wasn't in good from last year, thats why he didn't play, not because of McGuane and Edwards.
Also if you have a look past pick 20, not many have done anything in recent years

 

[tugga]

So basically you want us to gift them games? When they play well enough they will get a game. Simple as that.
Griffiths wasn't in good from last year, thats why he didn't play, not because of McGuane and Edwards.
Also if you have a look past pick 20, not many have done anything in recent years

Fair point. But the likes of S. Edwards, Grigg, Petterd etc are being gifted games as well are they not?

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

One-third of our list is...




s**t?

That is totally in correct .




It's two third

 

[Tigerbob]

Well we didn't need to recruit Ricky Petterd because he has had absolutely no influence over our performance, I still don't know what he really does. He did a couple nice things against Carlton which must be all Dimma sees when selecting his team. He is no forward or defender, and doesn't have the running capacity to be a midfielder.
Ricky played 12 games last year... These games could have been played by Batchelor (IMO one of our most promising defenders yet career has been ruined) or Astbury or Dea.

If we weren't going to keep McGuane (I actually thought he had a good year) why did he play 12 games, and why did we recruit A.Edwards and let him play 9 games. This all happened while we had Griffiths and Elton stuck in the VFL losing confidence.... Do we really think that Griffiths just learnt how to play football over summer or maybe is it that he is finally being allowed to play in a position he is comfortable with?

Then you had Shaun Grigg, Shane Edwards and Nathan Foley who all played many average games yet combined played a total of 59 games for the season. Grigg and Edwards turned to butter in the Elimination final and proved they don't deserve to feel safe in their position. Take away 19 of those games and we could have given a run to Arnot, McDonough and Helbig that might have proved vital to their development.

The way we treat our draft picks... We may as well give away any pick after 20 because there not going to be given opportunities when they should be, and as a result we ruin confidence and eventually careers.

Can't for once we drop blokes who were not the last in...

Holy Crap someone gets it.

Top class post. How can anyone defend this?

 

[Kapital city TIGER]

Holy Crap someone gets it.

Top class post. How can anyone defend this?

Did we get him just because we were sick of him having his best game of the year for the Ds Vs us?
Has a proper crack...most of the time
I don't know why we got him figured he'd be in the 2s mostly

 

[sante]

He's in the team cause he's courageous. What a load of crock that is.

If he returns this week, I'm tipping Brisbane

 

[Toothpick Vic]

Well we didn't need to recruit Ricky Petterd because he has had absolutely no influence over our performance, I still don't know what he really does. He did a couple nice things against Carlton which must be all Dimma sees when selecting his team. He is no forward or defender, and doesn't have the running capacity to be a midfielder.
Ricky played 12 games last year... These games could have been played by Batchelor (IMO one of our most promising defenders yet career has been ruined) or Astbury or Dea.

If we weren't going to keep McGuane (I actually thought he had a good year) why did he play 12 games, and why did we recruit A.Edwards and let him play 9 games. This all happened while we had Griffiths and Elton stuck in the VFL losing confidence.... Do we really think that Griffiths just learnt how to play football over summer or maybe is it that he is finally being allowed to play in a position he is comfortable with?

Then you had Shaun Grigg, Shane Edwards and Nathan Foley who all played many average games yet combined played a total of 59 games for the season. Grigg and Edwards turned to butter in the Elimination final and proved they don't deserve to feel safe in their position. Take away 19 of those games and we could have given a run to Arnot, McDonough and Helbig that might have proved vital to their development.

The way we treat our draft picks... We may as well give away any pick after 20 because there not going to be given opportunities when they should be, and as a result we ruin confidence and eventually careers.

Can't for once we drop blokes who were not the last in...

Outstanding post. Absolutely outstanding post..

I refuse to be convinced that the level of output Grigg, S Edwards, King, Foley, Petterd, Chaplin contribute week after week couldn't be achieved by some of the younger players on our list..

The changes for the pies game on Friday night had me more excited than any ins and outs from the previous year.. But by the same token I was very frustrated seeing what Lloyd did thinking that he should have been there from round 1. Arnot too..

 

[docko911]

So basically you want us to gift them games? When they play well enough they will get a game. Simple as that.
Griffiths wasn't in good from last year, thats why he didn't play, not because of McGuane and Edwards.
Also if you have a look past pick 20, not many have done anything in recent years

KPP's have to play consecutive games in the AFL to develop it is a known fact. No forwards or defenders dominate straight from the VFL, and their VFL form is never a true indication of their ability. I mean how many young up and coming forwards do you know that have kicked over 40 goals in the VFL in a season. Also in Griff's case he was being played all over the place so hard to develop.

As for Batchelor, he is a better player than Petterd so that is not gifting.

The young midfielders like Arnot, McDonough and Helbig showed form in VFL while Grigg, Foley and Sheds continually stinker it up. If just to give these guys a wake up call in the VFL for a couple weeks our development would have been better for it.

It is not gifting games when the young players have talent and potential, it is called development. Look at Geelong they got rid of older players, and dropped them for younger players, and all of a sudden there are 6-8 young guns running around making known stars look average.

Our focus as a club always needs to be on development. We can't just accept consistent average performances from players just because they are more established than the young bloke that would replace them. It is a losing mentality that has cost us for decades!

 

[Hipster Doofus]

barry badrinath You nailed it with your first post.

 

[Hipster Doofus]

I want to see Matt Dea in the team for the rest of the year, these are the guys that need to take us places.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Fair point. But the likes of S. Edwards, Grigg, Petterd etc are being gifted games as well are they not?

They're in the team to start, its the young guys job to kick them out. Youre not going to replace them with someone performing worse

 

[docko911]

They're in the team to start, its the young guys job to kick them out. Youre not going to replace them with someone performing worse

Incorrect... It is form in the AFL that should determine whether you play not the form of players in the VFL. If a player in the AFL plays s**t he gets dropped simple... replacement is then best available in VFL... Grigg and S.Edwards have been s**t, best VFL midfielders tomorrow should get their place against Brisbane simple.

 

[tugga]

They're in the team to start, its the young guys job to kick them out. Youre not going to replace them with someone performing worse

Lloyd wasn't exactly beating the door down, but King was stinking it in the ones. Look what happened.

 

[theflea]

Youve misread my point. We try and create stoppages and try and score from them

You mean as opposed to run and carry? I wonder if, because we were the best team last by a fair margin, that this was why they thought a bit more of them would help? Injury and too tallness has stopped this imo.

 

[theflea]

Understand what you are saying, but maybe winning 15 games meant these kids didn't much of a crack. Add to that the fact we had a good year injury wise as well.

I would add too, a lot of those kids have struggled with form and injury of those years. If they are struggling and playing poorly we would be calling for their heads anyway!!

 

[theflea]

Incorrect... It is form in the AFL that should determine whether you play not the form of players in the VFL. If a player in the AFL plays s**t he gets dropped simple... replacement is then best available in VFL... Grigg and S.Edwards have been s**t, best VFL midfielders tomorrow should get their place against Brisbane simple.

Training form must come into this too.

 

[Petrie4PM]

Hi guys. I don't have permissions to make a topic. I am Roos supporter but I am Just wondering what ever happened to Ben nason.
I know he was delisted but what was the general tiger fan consensus as he's back home playing good footy for centrals in the SANFL. Sorry for posting off topic I couldn't find a list thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tugga]

Hi guys. I don't have permissions to make a topic. I am Roos supporter but I am Just wondering what ever happened to Ben nason.
I know he was delisted but what was the general tiger fan consensus as he's back home playing good footy for centrals in the SANFL. Sorry for posting off topic I couldn't find a list thread.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Too small. Just didn't have what was required to make it at senior level. Too small to be a midfielder who can cut it int he clinches and not a good enough kick to be an outside runner. Just fell short (no pun intended) where it mattered to go on with it.
I actually admire the kid for playing 20 odd games and a few good ones in there as well.
Just not good enough.

 

[fargothegreat]

"What we've gotta do now is to get those players to jump again, or we go past"

This was Dimma's response on Talking Footy when asked about the recycled players and their value to the team and whether they can take us to a premiership.

This begs the question...

Who out of our Recycled pickups can take that step and contribute to a Richmond premiership and who is just there as a stopgap to allow us the ability to better develop young talent at our own pace without exposing them too early?

Shaun Grigg:

Unless he can make the jump and become a more defensive player who can be relied upon to commit to the contest, to me he is just a stop gap whilst the kids develop enough to take his spot. Not a bad kick as such, just blazes away long too often and doesn't choose the right option.

Bachar Houli:

Has had a slow start to the season, but when the team is in gear he is vital to our rebound off of half back and he can kick the football well. Should be a part of the next Richmond premiership, or on the edge of the 22.

Ivan Maric:

Our number one ruckman. A leader and a barometer for the club. The only thing that could prevent him from being involved in our next flag is injury.

Chris Knights:

A highly skilled player who just can't stay on the park. When he does play he shows that he is worth persisting with. If we can get him fit, he will be an asset to us.

Troy Chaplin:

A great general in the back line. He is really fighting with Grimes for a position, as I believe Astbury and Rance are ahead or will be ahead of him soon. If Grimes can stay fit and regain the confidence to play the way we all know he can, I'd say Chaplin will be pushed out of the side and the four year length of his contract will seem a bit long in hindsight.

Aaron Edwards:

Was a great stop gap third tall last year. Can't really see him getting another game for the club and he will be too old when we're truly contending anyway. Delist at seasons end.

Ricky Petterd:

Gives his all every time he plays and has played well so far this year. If he keeps up his current form there is a chance he may be still around for our next flag, but at this stage I'd say the kids will overtake him. Ahead of Grigg.

Orren Stephenson:

A great backup backup ruck option. Would be happy to retain him for a third year on the rookie list as insurance. Won't feature in any Richmond premiership

Shaun Hampson:

An excellent tap ruckman, but doesn't do enough around the ground. Hampson is vital as backup to Ivan so that he can be properly managed, but that is all he will ever be.

Nathan Gordon:

I see him more as a draftee than a recycled player. Bit early to judge, but I am hopeful he can develop into a great half forward/mid for us in the future.

Matt Thomas:

Great in close, but lacks the speed to be a good defensive midfielder outside the contest. Skills not to AFL standard. The only reason he gets a game is due to our terrible midfield depth. Delist at years end.

Todd Banfield:

Worst player on our list. Could have been a kid developing in the twos instead of Banfield. Delist at years end

Anthony Miles:

In the same category as Gordon really as he has a lot of untapped potential. He is bashing the door down in the reserves, only problem is there is a brick wall behind it. Would like to see how he goes up against AFL standard players, but I'm fairly confident we've got a player here.

So there you have it. That was my take on the "recycled hacks" we have on our list. Ideally, this is the best 22 I'd like to see us building towards in the future with most of the recycled pickups pushed out:

B: Morris Astbury Grimes
HB: Lennon Rance McDonough
C: Ellis Cotchin Deledio
HF: Arnot Griffiths Gordon
F: Lloyd Riewoldt Martin
R: Maric Vlastuin Conca
IC: Jackson Houli Miles
SUB: Knights

 

[Madtiger2006]

I look at how they can take a position on the ground and become a bit of a weapon from this position.

Maric, Hampson-we needed a first then second ruck and we got them. Hampson great at centre bounce but needs to be better around the ground and has the talent to do that. Maric is great around great and competes at centre bounces

Big tick

As for the rest we need to trim off a few. Players we should keep:

Houli-pretty good run and skill from defence which we need. Great mark. His courage is wrongly rated. Foxtel poorly chose an effort against pies where the ball always going to go to cloke first.

Tick

Chaplin-usually pretty good apart from occasional miskick. Good valuable strength and leadership

Tick

Morris-can be a bit off with kicking but attack on the ball is ferocious which we don't have much of

Tick

Gordon-provides much needed skill and pace and looks promising

Tick

Lloyd-provides some much needed goal sense. We need these skillful crumbers around goal

Tick

Players who deficiencies outweigh value to team

Grigg-dodgy kick, softness costs us. McDonough and Gordon are quicker and more skilled. Grigg slows us down with backwards kicking to better skilled players

Fail

Petterd-he goes in but not quite with the same ferocity as Morris. He doesn't have the same attack and run as Morris either. He slows us down going backwards like Grigg due to dodgy kick and he is poor decision maker under pressure. You can only afford 1 Morris type in the 22 and Petterd just doesn't have a weapon. Batchelor should always play ahead of him

Fail

Thomas-hard at it but slows us down with decision making. Not required

Fail

Players who need games to show what they have:

Banfield- should have been elevated. Provides crucial speed and goal sense. He is already more valuable to the club the Grigg and Petterd

Miles-not sure if he fills a void but worth trying out

Undecided:

Knights-fully fit is very handy but has missed plenty of games with injury
Edwards-see Knights

 

[Madtiger2006]

We are playing 3 players who just aren't afl standard while we have afl standards in reserves who should have replaced them

 

[DrMike]

Morris-can be a bit off with kicking but attack on the ball is ferocious which we don't have much of
Currently one of our worst performers and is playing injured, needs surgery

Petterd-he goes in but not quite with the same ferocity as Morris. He doesn't have the same attack and run as Morris either. He slows us down going backwards like Grigg due to dodgy kick and he is poor decision maker under pressure. You can only afford 1 Morris type in the 22 and Petterd just doesn't have a weapon. Batchelor should always play ahead of him
Plays anywhere on the ground, something Morris can't do. Finally getting some experience injury free, not the best but contributed well.

Thomas-hard at it but slows us down with decision making. Not required
Required when we're down an inside mid. Hindsight would have elevated Miles instead.

Banfield- should have been elevated. Provides crucial speed and goal sense. He is already more valuable to the club the Grigg and Petterd
Worst player in the team. Wouldn't get a game in front of Gordon and Lloyd regardless.

Miles-not sure if he fills a void but worth trying out
Should have been elevated, will be halfway through the season, will make our senior list next year. Brilliant player.

See bolded above for what I disagree with.

 

[TigerTime88]

"What we've gotta do now is to get those players to jump again, or we go past"

This was Dimma's response on Talking Footy when asked about the recycled players and their value to the team and whether they can take us to a premiership.

This begs the question...

Who out of our Recycled pickups can take that step and contribute to a Richmond premiership and who is just there as a stopgap to allow us the ability to better develop young talent at our own pace without exposing them too early?

Shaun Grigg:

Unless he can make the jump and become a more defensive player who can be relied upon to commit to the contest, to me he is just a stop gap whilst the kids develop enough to take his spot. Not a bad kick as such, just blazes away long too often and doesn't choose the right option.

Bachar Houli:

Has had a slow start to the season, but when the team is in gear he is vital to our rebound off of half back and he can kick the football well. Should be a part of the next Richmond premiership, or on the edge of the 22.

Ivan Maric:

Our number one ruckman. A leader and a barometer for the club. The only thing that could prevent him from being involved in our next flag is injury.

Chris Knights:

A highly skilled player who just can't stay on the park. When he does play he shows that he is worth persisting with. If we can get him fit, he will be an asset to us.

Troy Chaplin:

A great general in the back line. He is really fighting with Grimes for a position, as I believe Astbury and Rance are ahead or will be ahead of him soon. If Grimes can stay fit and regain the confidence to play the way we all know he can, I'd say Chaplin will be pushed out of the side and the four year length of his contract will seem a bit long in hindsight.

Aaron Edwards:

Was a great stop gap third tall last year. Can't really see him getting another game for the club and he will be too old when we're truly contending anyway. Delist at seasons end.

Ricky Petterd:

Gives his all every time he plays and has played well so far this year. If he keeps up his current form there is a chance he may be still around for our next flag, but at this stage I'd say the kids will overtake him. Ahead of Grigg.

Orren Stephenson:

A great backup backup ruck option. Would be happy to retain him for a third year on the rookie list as insurance. Won't feature in any Richmond premiership

Shaun Hampson:

An excellent tap ruckman, but doesn't do enough around the ground. Hampson is vital as backup to Ivan so that he can be properly managed, but that is all he will ever be.

Nathan Gordon:

I see him more as a draftee than a recycled player. Bit early to judge, but I am hopeful he can develop into a great half forward/mid for us in the future.

Matt Thomas:

Great in close, but lacks the speed to be a good defensive midfielder outside the contest. Skills not to AFL standard. The only reason he gets a game is due to our terrible midfield depth. Delist at years end.

Todd Banfield:

Worst player on our list. Could have been a kid developing in the twos instead of Banfield. Delist at years end

Anthony Miles:

In the same category as Gordon really as he has a lot of untapped potential. He is bashing the door down in the reserves, only problem is there is a brick wall behind it. Would like to see how he goes up against AFL standard players, but I'm fairly confident we've got a player here.

So there you have it. That was my take on the "recycled hacks" we have on our list. Ideally, this is the best 22 I'd like to see us building towards in the future with most of the recycled pickups pushed out:

B: Morris Astbury Grimes
HB: Lennon Rance McDonough
C: Ellis Cotchin Deledio
HF: Arnot Griffiths Gordon
F: Lloyd Riewoldt Martin
R: Maric Vlastuin Conca
IC: Jackson Houli Miles
SUB: Knights

In my opinion Dimma has completely the wrong attitude. These guys are never going to make the next jump because they are not good enough. Morris is a shocking kick but willing to persist with him while he shuts down opposition players. However this means there is no spot for Petterd as we can't have to horrible kicks in our back half.

Need to go - Petterd, Banfield, Thomas as they are all not up to AFL standard. I would prefer to risk using the likes of Helbig as a stop gap than this lot. If we are relying on them we aren't good enough. These guys are true recycled players as they were delisted and by crappy clubs.

Others:

1. Ivan Maric - Not really recycled as we traded for him and in our top 10 players. WIN

2. Chris Knights - When not injured is easily in our best 22. Was a gun at Adelaide and the only reason we were able to get him was because of injury risk. IF HE STAYS ON THE PARK HE IS A WIN. Again he was a free agent not a delisted player.

3. Gordon - The first recycled player who actually looks any good and the right type to go for. Was Sydney's emergency in there premiership year then went away and dominated SANFL. Would have strengthened his work ethic as well you would have thought to go even harder at his next chance at the top level.

4. Grigg - IMO the time has come to make a decision on Grigg. Has been a good trade and is the one Dimma talks about when making the jump. When he first came to the club he had something to prove and ran extremely hard, kicked goals ect. He needs to be dropped to the VFL to send a msg to him regarding his lazy efforts. Can be a good player and the type that sits in your bottom 5 in a grand final side, only if he lifts his work rate. Think however it might be best to move him on at the end of the year.

5. Houli - IMO in our best 22 and therefore a tick. Again Dons wanted to keep him so not really recycled although we managed to nab him in the PSD.

6. Aaron Edwards - Gone at the end of the year.

7. Chaplin - Fills a role..good get.

8. Anthony Miles - In the Gordon category...should have been upgraded.