Autopsy Round 2 = St Kilda 94-79 Collingwood

[Dead Eye Didak]

Hard to take positives out of this third straight loss now.

One I will mention though, is Reef!

He absolutely needs more game time now. Can’t keep ignoring the younger blokes. We’ve toppled over the age cliff now.

The form slump we saw headed into the finals is continuing.

Somehow, thankfully, we took a pause from it when it mattered most. Narrowly got the job done in each of the three finals.

But to me, I feel we were already showing signs of this as the season closed last year.

Agree McInnes needs to play the next month at least. We also need to start the transition over to some of the youth, and play Macrae over Mitchell.
Titch has had a terrific career, and will play some more senior footy this year, but use him in bursts in the midfield, as a clearance player. He isn't running games out that well at the moment. Maybe more games as a sub.
Depending on VFL form, l would like to see the Allan transition commence for Sidey on a wing. Again Sidey will play more senior footy this year, but again use in bursts, more games as the sub.
I would be watching Steene closely this season, and wouldn't mind trying him at some point as a transition into the senior side for Cox.
These players need to be given opportunities this year, and there will be a couple others, like Harrison, TJ, DeMattia, Richards etc that we could look at giving opportunities to as well....

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

I love how people just LOL at posts yet can't come up with a counter argument.
If you have an opinion on someone's post, let's read the counter arguments...

 

[Tadpole]

I'm at a loss to understand or explain how the vast bulk of the squad to a man seem to have individually (and then agreed as a collective group) to have decided that one premiership is good enough so they don't need to put in even a modicum of effort any more. Frustrated is an understatement after 3 games with barely a yelp given. I still believe in them - if only they'd believe in themselves.

 

[sr36]

How many goals did Moore cough up with basic horrendous mistakes?

Him and De Goey need to back to basics and stop playing cute

Commentators crapped on as though it was heaps, but it was that horrendous handball and a spoil he misshit which went to the goal square rather than boundary line which wouldn't have been pinned to a player if that player wasn't a talking point.

 

[lethalburns]

Despite the shit we are serving up I can rest at night knowing we found a way to win the last 3 games of 2023. I have no idea how we did it as we were seemingly cooked by round 18.

The competition has figured out our 1 wood and when you combine that with the drop-off in our chemistry, discipline and hunger you end up where we are now.

We still have plenty of talent and I don't believe the old guys are past it. We're off in some systemic capacity and unfortunately after tonight probably created too big a task for ourselves.

I still think we can have an impact if we stay injury free. If we get a couple of key injuries it will spiral quickly.

 

[DWil6]

2-6 in the last 8 non finals matches. Luckily we managed to pull off those 3 finals wins by a total of 12 points because our regular season games have been abysmal.

 

[doofdoof]

Hard to take positives out of this third straight loss now.

One I will mention though, is Reef!

He absolutely needs more game time now. Can’t keep ignoring the younger blokes. We’ve toppled over the age cliff now.

The form slump we saw headed into the finals is continuing.

Somehow, thankfully, we took a pause from it when it mattered most. Narrowly got the job done in each of the three finals.

But to me, I feel we were already showing signs of this as the season closed last year.

I'm a strong advocate for celebrating success, but also casting a constructively critical eye on performance at the same time.

2023 was very successful. A true celebratory moment!

However, the failure to get enough game time into the next wave (Reef, Fin, HH, Allan) was clearly something we needed to learn from. Subbing them in for a quarter here or there doesn't count.

We started this year making the same mistakes, especially given a number of them had great pre-seasons that were not rewarded with first 22 selection.

Reef and Fin need to play. Others need to be blooded with full games.

 

[DWil6]

Commentators crapped on as though it was heaps, but it was that horrendous handball and a spoil he misshit which went to the goal square rather than boundary line which wouldn't have been pinned to a player if that player wasn't a talking point.

Agree he was a bit unlucky with the spoil but he’s found a way to gift goals to the opposition in all 3 games this season whether by hand or by foot.

 

[Ugene41]

If Hine keeps refusing to draft one inside the top 10 we will continue to look for flawed kpf through rookies and other clubs NQRs.

No first rounder means we need to aim as high as possible this year and rebuild next year on. Don't go full hard on youth this season drips and drabs in 24.

When was the last time we had a top 10 pick?

The only blunder was Stephenson over a Naughton in 2017 and he almost pinched us a flag in 2018. Moore was meant to have been our marquee KPF this decade when he was originally drafted and was still playing as a KPF in 2017.

Our issue has been our consistent terrible trading of our first round picks for nothing. 2 first rounders for Beams, Pick 2 for a couple of 2nd/3rd rounders in 2020, this year's first rounder that could now easily be a top 5-10 pick for a role player in Schultz.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I'm a strong advocate for celebrating success, but also casting a constructively critical eye on performance at the same time.

2023 was clearly very successful.

However, the failure to get enough game time into the next wave (Reef, Fin, HH, Allan) was clearly something we needed to learn from. Subbing them in for a quarter here or there doesn't really count.

We started this year making the same mistakes, especially given a number of them had great pre-seasons that were not rewarded with first 22 selection.

This was an issue the entirety of 2023.

It was silly not to get (full) games into more of the deserving kids while we had the senior core up enough to carry them.

Although Harvey Harrison somehow managed to get 4 games in a row which still kinda beggars belief.

But yeah, it’s literally the Geelong blueprint from that perspective so it’s odd to see us just copy it rather than learn from it.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Another dead rubber?

Talk about a fall from grace…

You’re not playing horrible footy, but the 5-10% drop off is noticeable and it’s brought you right back to the pack.

To Collingwood fans, are you confident you can break the streak against the lions next week?

Serious question, not being a smart arse…

I already said before this game that I was more confident of beating Brisbane than I am St.Kilda.

I don’t think we’ll beat Brisbane because we’ll have turned our form around. It’ll be a one off effort with “backs against the wall” before Hawthorn obliterate us the week after.

 

[hellfire]

How the hell does the team with the shortest pre-season play 3 games before 9 other sides have played twice? We are an incoherent mess, but that’s making it worse.

 

[lethalburns]

Another dead rubber?

Talk about a fall from grace…

You’re not playing horrible footy, but the 5-10% drop off is noticeable and it’s brought you right back to the pack.

To Collingwood fans, are you confident you can break the streak against the lions next week?

Serious question, not being a smart arse…

Confident? Mate, we're playing like North Melbourne lol

 

[jathanas]

Another dead rubber?

Talk about a fall from grace…

You’re not playing horrible footy, but the 5-10% drop off is noticeable and it’s brought you right back to the pack.

To Collingwood fans, are you confident you can break the streak against the lions next week?

Serious question, not being a smart arse…

3 straight losses and you're here heralding a fall from grace?

If we're going to be discussing streaks, Collingwood has been bog-ordinary but the Carlton shitness has spanned decades. How confident are you that they won't revert to the norm during the year?

Stay awesome BennyG, and do a better job of concealing your joy.

 

[barrackers]

I'm at a loss to understand or explain how the vast bulk squad to a man seem to have individually (and then agreed as a collective group) to have decided that one premiership is good enough so they don't need to put in even a modicum of effort any more. Frustrated is an understatement after 3 games with barely a yelp given. I still believe in them - if only they'd believe in themselves.

When we’re coming out of half back sides are going man on man against us and one issue is we’re not running to create separation. This leads to stagnant stop start footy and kicking to contests instead of run/dare. While we’re still largely defending with zones there were times last night when we went man on man especially between the 50 arcs. The saints broke hard to create separation.

Offensively I haven’t seen much of the running in lines that worked so well for us last year.

 

[Sweeetleftfoot]

At least Frampton still has hunger.

This crap line about “have we been worked out” just really annoys me, there was never anything to work out we just did it better than the opposition.

Now the opposition has more run and spread. The turnovers at crucial points are what’s killing the team.

 

[Sweeetleftfoot]

I love how people just LOL at posts yet can't come up with a counter argument.
If you have an opinion on someone's post, let's read the counter arguments...

Honestly, sometimes it’s just easier to laugh react because most people don’t listen actively. Some people aren’t good at articulating what they want to say.

Most of the issues we’re having in the opening games are all issues that existed last year. It’s amazing how winning even by a point covers cracks.

 

[Vicky Park]

Pleased to see Frampton take his opportunity when recalled to the team.

Reef was definitely a highlight, and some green shoots from Lippa too.

I thought Nick was poor.

But what has happened to Leggy? There was a weak attempt at ‘Oleg Oleg Oleg’ from the crowd at one point, but he’s another who’s a shadow of last year, and we can’t use age as an excuse.

Players like Crisp and IQ had poor stretches last year too, including early in the season, so there’s hope.

Not sure what’s going on with JDG. He’s often been a mystery to me. The much anticipated one-two punch with him and Nick in the midfield hasn’t happened.

I posted last night about teams (all three this year) getting an extra zip or spring in their step when they are obviously getting on top of the reigning premier. You saw it with us too in Round 1 last year, and when we beat Melbourne in 2022. It’s hard to stop. Goes with being the hunted I guess.

 

[Jmac3542]

What were his stats for defensive pressure?

You’re looking at the stats of a player who sat on the outside of the contest all night and waited for the ball to come to him, which is fine when there are team-mates at the contest getting the ball. But there were many times when it was clearly his turn to put pressure on the ball carrier and he didn’t, and St Kilda were able to effectively move the ball as a result.

Our gameplan is built on pressure on the ball carrier - and Josh Daicos didn’t play his role in that IMO.

Think if you check the pressure points in today’s paper you’ll find all of most of the defence behind Josh. Wingers role is outside to keep shake. The best player on the ground running off half back and outside was Wanganeen-Milera. Have a look at his pressure points mate. You clearly have no idea.

Josh Daicos 29 touches 719 metres gained. You’re kidding yourself.

 

[Kes1984]

Another dead rubber?

Talk about a fall from grace…

You’re not playing horrible footy, but the 5-10% drop off is noticeable and it’s brought you right back to the pack.

To Collingwood fans, are you confident you can break the streak against the lions next week?

Serious question, not being a smart arse…

Looks horrible from where I sit.

Expect that Brisbane will rally next week. They’ll have had a bye to really regroup and work on what has gone wrong with them.

I expect a slaughter actually.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

At least Frampton still has hunger.

This crap line about “have we been worked out” just really annoys me, there was never anything to work out we just did it better than the opposition.

Now the opposition has more run and spread. The turnovers at crucial points are what’s killing the team.

Yeah I never understood the “worked out” argument in football

It’s football. Not biochemistry. There’s no secret game plan teams have that are impossible to work out.

It’s about execution, discipline, commitment et al in making it all work and come together.

The lack of any willingness to actually run is there for all to see. It’s not some unknown quantity.

Oh but it’s ok though, according to one person here…”we’re still covering a lot of km” lol

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Honestly, sometimes it’s just easier to laugh react because most people don’t listen actively. Some people aren’t good at articulating what they want to say.

Most of the issues we’re having in the opening games are all issues that existed last year. It’s amazing how winning even by a point covers cracks.

No no no. I was just being “overly negative” with all my concerns for how our form turned last year.

The f**k we at least won that flag before the fall

 

[loki04]

Pendles created a couple of goals as well, plus was able to hit targets inside F50 a few times.
Sidey couldn't even pick the ball up below his knees, as he continually fumbled, just kicked the ball blindly to the opposition or his handballs were going to teammates feet.
I thought at times last night we saw that Pendles was getting his touch back, whereas Sidey has been horrible for all our first 3 games.
Sidey has been an absolute legend and have loved the way his career has played out, but l just wonder if he's finding it hard going around again. He looks to be playing with alot of frustration.
You wonder in his mind, a 2 x premiership player, is satisfying enough for him.

Outside a couple nice passages I thought pendles was poor and struggled.

2 or 3 passages is not enough to justify a contract.

Round 1 he had 2 touches till half time, Steele had a better game and wasn't too bad.

Round 2 both were off the boil pendles slightly better then Steele, Round 3 Steele had a mare and Pendles looked 40 years old.

Unfortunately father time comes for us all.

I'd let them both play the year with timed rest periods for youth but go out with dignity and hopefully help us finish above 10th.

 

[barrackers]

Looks horrible from where I sit.

Expect that Brisbane will rally next week. They’ll have had a bye to really regroup and work on what has gone wrong with them.

I expect a slaughter actually.

The bears have two points to prove reversing their start to ‘24 and avenging the GF loss (as much as you can in March).

We need to start well and hope for no breaks in momentum this week.

 

[cityslick1]

When will our club learn you mean, future first trading has been horrendous for us for the most part but still we look to do it every year.

Correct, but seems a consistent trend amongst all clubs. West coast, Geelong, us, Richmond. All think they can go on winning and refuse to reset. Players get old, slow and less motivated v quickly after they've won a cup though…

Players like Dusty, McGovern, Danger, Gaff, Yeo, Sidey… still running around on fat salaries, but producing below average output

Even Darcy looks off it atm, as does Crisp, Quaynor, Cox has not impacted. Markov is a coaches pick sadly