he looked defeated when it wasnt going his way, thats why i thought perhaps he was ill because i have never seem he look so lethargic, but when we he got the ball he looked spritely. so i dont know what was going on.
Autopsy Round 2 = St Kilda 94-79 Collingwood
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he looked defeated when it wasnt going his way, thats why i thought perhaps he was ill because i have never seem he look so lethargic, but when we he got the ball he looked spritely. so i dont know what was going on.
I also didn't understand Fly's comments in the after match presser regarding Macrae.
He said that yeah, we need to know what the youth can do or offer, something along those lines, so why continually play Macrae as sub, and then give him only 2 and a bit quarters of footy the last 2 weeks.
We all can clearly see a player like Titch is struggling, so why not play Macrae from the start??
To how Macrae is getting played, to what is said in press conferences regarding him, don't align. Im confused, so l could only imagine how Macrae must feel....
He said that yeah, we need to know what the youth can do or offer, something along those lines, so why continually play Macrae as sub, and then give him only 2 and a bit quarters of footy the last 2 weeks.
We all can clearly see a player like Titch is struggling, so why not play Macrae from the start??
To how Macrae is getting played, to what is said in press conferences regarding him, don't align. Im confused, so l could only imagine how Macrae must feel....
I'm not talking about the trade, l'm talking about the horrendous delivery inside F50, making it difficult for the forwards to make an impact. Suggest you read my post again.
he has been handled poorly, if they are worried about him seeing out a full game, start him and sub him out at 3/4 time. we still dont know if he is going to be the answer because he is only getting 20min to show his worth each week.
he is one guy who can get a clearance , something we need to distribute to the likes of DeGoey and Naicos
yeh, you completely changed the subject which i pointed out
Having now watched both press conferences following last night, it’s apparent that teams have put a lot of work into us over the off season, which is contributing to our lack of confidence. Lyon spoke about premiers having signatures and analysing those, while McRae didn’t have an answer for the skill errors we’re making and said we’re fitter than we’ve ever been.
Seems to me that teams are taking things away from us (something McRae referred to constantly last season), we’re then making mistakes and it’s eroding our confidence, which then causes us to go into our shell, creating a vicious cycle.
McRae seems to be at a loss right now as to what to do, as in his assessment it’s more a mental issue. While in my view the players need to be proactive and find a way to push through whatever it is that’s causing much of this, the coaching panel should also start to try and find alternatives, starting with selection.
Macrae’s call as sub was attributed to ‘selection committee’ by McRae, which I found a bit strange. As head coach I would assume that he has final say on the sub and whether players are picked to play full games or not. Other selections that may shake things up would be to drop the 2 ruck approach in order to inject some speed, play Howe forward as he’s not at the level required to play back right now, and rotate the mix we currently have in the middle as we’re winning hitouts convincingly but not getting value for Cameron’s good work.
However you slice it though, teams clearly have a blueprint for playing against us now. It’s now up to our players and coaching staff to evolve and find a way to counteract it more effectively, because doing what we did last season won’t cut it this season.
Seems to me that teams are taking things away from us (something McRae referred to constantly last season), we’re then making mistakes and it’s eroding our confidence, which then causes us to go into our shell, creating a vicious cycle.
McRae seems to be at a loss right now as to what to do, as in his assessment it’s more a mental issue. While in my view the players need to be proactive and find a way to push through whatever it is that’s causing much of this, the coaching panel should also start to try and find alternatives, starting with selection.
Macrae’s call as sub was attributed to ‘selection committee’ by McRae, which I found a bit strange. As head coach I would assume that he has final say on the sub and whether players are picked to play full games or not. Other selections that may shake things up would be to drop the 2 ruck approach in order to inject some speed, play Howe forward as he’s not at the level required to play back right now, and rotate the mix we currently have in the middle as we’re winning hitouts convincingly but not getting value for Cameron’s good work.
However you slice it though, teams clearly have a blueprint for playing against us now. It’s now up to our players and coaching staff to evolve and find a way to counteract it more effectively, because doing what we did last season won’t cut it this season.
sr36
Hall of Famer
Teams and individual player train patterns - those patterns often work until they get picked up on and nullified.
Being "worked out" simply means that teams know what patterns you're likely to use and how to stop them or exploit them. It happens at the whole team structural level but also at an individual player level - the basketballer who has early success by always going right - his opponents work that out and work out how to nullify it - so he has to develop to add in some other moves or patterns that hurt opposition and makes him harder to defend.
When you were carrying on about us in the second half of last year and how we were not repeating that Round 2 thrashing of Port - it was as simple as other teams weren't letting us, as they'd clamped down on some of our patterns that made that thrashing happen. They weren't allowing us extras in the midfield and they weren't allowing us to run a horde through the corridor like we had against Port
In the last two weeks, we've come up against a couple of really seasoned-pro coaches who have put a clamp on our sttacking patterns. Then you add in that they're better athletes, who are currently more committed and currently more skillful - we've been sitting ducks.
We'll address the committment and skill of our mids and runners. We can't address the athleticism easily and we need to adjust the patterns - because teams know what we're going to do and the well drilled ones are cutting out our chains and ball movement.
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Really? That’s rubbish that you attribute our flag to one bloke, what a ridiculous statement!
You obviously don’t understand business either by the sound of it.
We have removed two of the more important architects than GW, put both in that one role, created a power struggle, taken away that coaching experience around fly.
And a ‘refreshed’ GW comes back in September mate, so what you’re implying is that we count this season as a mulligan because GW needed a break for the year. As if the club has an obligation to wait for him.
His abandonment of the post has has a flow on effect that has weakened the team and club significantly and I’m shocked that any supporters are ok with this.
If GW is just “ one bloke”, then why are you attributing our poor start to him taking a break.
Clearly he IS the architect as I said.
As to the “power struggle” I look forward to your evidence.
Agree! Collingwood seems to be one of the clubs with too much trust that established players will just turn it around.
No… other clubs are not afraid to drop established players but we are for sure.
There is such thing as too much faith, on form and output the following players should be dropped.
Markov, Crisp, Sidebottom, Moore, Shultz, Mitchell,
Now obviously that ain’t gonna happen but one or two needs to be made an example of.
And none of this ‘Rested’ or ‘Managed’ that’s bullshit!!!
No champ you are omitted!!! so about your feelings and all but that’s reality.
It’s a joke that we are too scared now to declare an established player as dropped.
I was giving some perspective as to why players like Schultz may be struggling. People can have counter arguments.....
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It is the flow on effect that has altered multiple positions in the football department from one persons decision.
More importantly these are alterations that would not have happened all things being equal so how is that not a problem?
On the friction, there has been multiple people saying that Leppa and Bolts are hardly getting along and they way the club is selling it as challenging each other and ‘healthy friction’ is crap! I don’t buy it, this sort of language used is watering down the issues.
I’m not mad at GW it’s the club that thinks it’s ok for someone in such a high profile position to just decide the 2024 season is not for them.
That far from good enough I’m sorry.
Rustin Cohle
Flat Circle
LMAO, you actually think that the players aren't told internally that they're being omitted?
You think the club just says to the player that they're being managed even though the player himself knows his performance isn't up to standard?
Ummm yes I get that, it’s what is put to the public is incorrect as to not bruise egos.
Rustin Cohle
Flat Circle
What benefit does it serve to create a media circus around 'star' players being dropped?
The only theory I can come up with is slightly far fetched and likely not true...
What if we've been training pre-season style for longer with anticipation of dropping a couple of games, but hoping to finish off the season stronger than last year? I know we won the flag but you can say we limped through towards the end.
If only we had track watchers at each session to pick up on such thing
Fundementals are hard when you're flat and unfit. We can't be unfit, can we? Do we have higher than usual loads against fit and fresh opposition? Or are the early 6 day breaks killing us more than we dare to believe?
That said last night we just didn't want contact and things like spoiling the ball into the hot spot... unforgivable.
What if we've been training pre-season style for longer with anticipation of dropping a couple of games, but hoping to finish off the season stronger than last year? I know we won the flag but you can say we limped through towards the end.
If only we had track watchers at each session to pick up on such thing
Fundementals are hard when you're flat and unfit. We can't be unfit, can we? Do we have higher than usual loads against fit and fresh opposition? Or are the early 6 day breaks killing us more than we dare to believe?
That said last night we just didn't want contact and things like spoiling the ball into the hot spot... unforgivable.
Look I don’t know what’s going inside the club but it’s clearly obvious we are not the same team of last year and the year before. We look like we have regressed back to the Buckley days.
We’ve got players who are well and truly cooked eg Pendles, Sidebottom and even titch a bit tbh who all should of gone out on a high last year rather then playing on. The game has gone past them. They are too slow.
Also teams have worked us out and we have no plan B to combat it. Early days but I’ve lowered my expectations for the year and I’d be surprised if we even make the 8 let alone contend again. The club seems to be content with their 1 flag and have little desire to go again. Time to start phasing out the older blokes and play the kids. Finn should have got a full game last night, Nobel should have played last night. Where’s Carmichael at these days? I also read there’s been a change up in the coaching staff taking on different roles, maybe this is also contributing to it?
I feel like the last 2 years of epic wins and form have caught up to us big time. I’m hoping we can turn it around but I can’t see it sadly. If anything the year will prove the point of needing start the rebuild
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We’ve got players who are well and truly cooked eg Pendles, Sidebottom and even titch a bit tbh who all should of gone out on a high last year rather then playing on. The game has gone past them. They are too slow.
Also teams have worked us out and we have no plan B to combat it. Early days but I’ve lowered my expectations for the year and I’d be surprised if we even make the 8 let alone contend again. The club seems to be content with their 1 flag and have little desire to go again. Time to start phasing out the older blokes and play the kids. Finn should have got a full game last night, Nobel should have played last night. Where’s Carmichael at these days? I also read there’s been a change up in the coaching staff taking on different roles, maybe this is also contributing to it?
I feel like the last 2 years of epic wins and form have caught up to us big time. I’m hoping we can turn it around but I can’t see it sadly. If anything the year will prove the point of needing start the rebuild
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It sends a message to the group. And there would hardly be a media circus, I doubt Tom Morris will be camped outside the house of WHE or Jack Crisp for days on end.
JuniorB
Premiership Player
Bruzzy's comment after the game that they would "flick the switch" was off the mark.
If only it was that simple.
A lot of our players seem down on confidence.
Jamie was looking to give off the ball in the first half after he took a mark - he then missed the shot, which seemed inevitable.
Thankfully he did a bit better in the second half.
Before the game, Erin Phillips said that Jordy had "the look" in his eyes.
He then disappeared without a trace. We need him firing.
There were plenty of others.
If only it was that simple.
A lot of our players seem down on confidence.
Jamie was looking to give off the ball in the first half after he took a mark - he then missed the shot, which seemed inevitable.
Thankfully he did a bit better in the second half.
Before the game, Erin Phillips said that Jordy had "the look" in his eyes.
He then disappeared without a trace. We need him firing.
There were plenty of others.
While he wasn't as physically poor as he was in the Carlton gane last year, his contest wasn't at a standard on a number of occasions to make his opponent really earn a contested posession or halving some of the contests.
I think that has to be part of the consideration in moving him out of the centre square at the moment to a flank, if he is off his game and the other team are winning the clearances/contested ball.
Similarly DeGoey has to be swung forward if he is not touching it.
which had nothing to do with my post re trading our future first round picks , thanks for clearing that up
Cousin of Daicos
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The only theory I can come up with is slightly far fetched and likely not true...
What if we've been training pre-season style for longer with anticipation of dropping a couple of games, but hoping to finish off the season stronger than last year? I know we won the flag but you can say we limped through towards the end.
If only we had track watchers at each session to pick up on such thing
Fundementals are hard when you're flat and unfit. We can't be unfit, can we? Do we have higher than usual loads against fit and fresh opposition? Or are the early 6 day breaks killing us more than we dare to believe?
That said last night we just didn't want contact and things like spoiling the ball into the hot spot... unforgivable.
According to Fly - and I quote, “we are fitter now than we have been in my time”
So if fitness is allegedly not the issue, then clearly motivation, discipline and desire are the issue.
Because I don’t believe the game plan bullsh*t for one second. Port Adelaide still force their way into the middle like we used to. Why haven’t they stoped doing it?
In 2022 (less so in 2023) we literally had a rule of “no looking back, no kicking backwards”. We also used to throw caution to the wind and force our way into the middle knowing we’d have the ability to defend a potential turnover.
So I also don’t blame the midfield for the defence being garbage. Our defenders don’t even defend after they’ve been given a stop in play to man up and structure up.
Without knowing what’s actually going on behind the scenes all we have to go on is surface level stuff.
On the surface? It just looks like we’re a team of players who are mostly content with having won one flag.
I said previously I had concerns about Take The Steps and how “final” it all sounded. Coming out of that doco it felt like they set themselves up for two season and that was it.
Pendles: “After 2010 we went out to the middle of the G after to reflect and it was the best feeling. I wanted to experience that one last time”
Why one last time? Why not 10 more times?
Moore: “The you’ve got to back it up again for another season”
Yeah bro…that’s football.
It’s no coincidence that Nick Daicos has been our best this season and he’s the only one in that doco saying he wanted to do it all again.
Ditto Maynard. He’s another that’s been good this season and he too during the Grand Final recall talked about being desperate to feel it again.
Sorry but I don’t see that as just a coincidence.
he ( Naicos ) wants the ball in his hands at all times, so do we.
why on earth is he not doing at least half the kick outs. our ball movement looks at its most dangerous when he is doing that because he creates movement ahead of the ball with his skills and pace, instead we are preferring Moore and Howe with that role. can anyone think of a smooth passage of play in the last year when they are doing it?
its such an easy thing to rectify
this thing angers me as much as the Macrae non starting because its an own goal in my eyes
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Signs of improvement. A couple of bursts looked like they were gelling but still look off the pace. Loom slow. Said after Rd 1 we needed youth and dynamism as teams getting old.
Look at what Wagnanen milera gulden and blokes like that are doing
Look at what Wagnanen milera gulden and blokes like that are doing
This is the biggest concern at the moment, no doubt.
I'd be very surprised though if someone like Pendlebury had a dip in his drive though.
