Should the coach be the one to tell a player he's delisted?

[DarkPhoenix]

Don't think the coach should necessarily be the one to tell the player they won't be on the list next year, however they should be involved in some way, and at the least should conduct the exit interview.

Mick shouldn't have necessarily told Brock he wasn't playing next year but he should have given him a call at the bare minimum, and as pointed out by many before it's hypocritical for Mick to want players to be up front with him when he isn't being up front with players.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Of course the coach should be the one, explain the reasons why, and offer to assist if the player has another club he'd like to play for. If I were a delisted player, I'd want to hear from the coach, and nobody else.

 

[chunkylover53]

Hardly. Unlike Waite, Mick didn't walk away from a dinner with Mclean and not tell him he was gone. Waite walked out a week after that dinner without giving any indication that he was going. Mick knew Betts was going.

Mclean is disappointed that our list management changed in light of Carlton securing Jaksch, Whiley and pick 19 for pick seven.



Brock McLean in the Morning Glory studio

Please.

Mick is a gun coach and 100% has us on the right track. But lets not pretend hes the warmest bloke in the world.

He loses his mind that Waite enters his family home and gives an indication that hes staying, then leaves.

Brock has a chat with Mick and the club 6 weeks out of the season AND an exit interview and is told he is needed for 2015. Mick never rings him to tell him hes been delisted, or wish him luck or anything.

Its hypocritical and rude.

But a bit of a non-issue and unsurprising actually. Not sure how you and every other Carlton fan could paint this in Micks favour.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Please.

Mick is a gun coach and 100% has us on the right track. But lets not pretend hes the warmest bloke in the world.

He loses his mind that Waite enters his family home and gives an indication that hes staying, then leaves.

Brock has a chat with Mick and the club 6 weeks out of the season AND an exit interview and is told he is needed for 2015. Mick never rings him to tell him hes been delisted, or wish him luck or anything.

Its hypocritical and rude.

But a bit of a non-issue and unsurprising actually. Not sure how you and every other Carlton fan could paint this in Micks favour.

To be fair, do we know for certain it was Mick's decision to cut Brock from the list. I get the feeling the Vet (Andrew McKay) was a big factor in this decision (haven't heard the Morning Glory interview)

Would like to hear Mick's side of the story before passing judgment, also Brock has bit of a 'self-righteous' personality, and i am not surprised he is bitter (even though i think it was the right call to delist him)

 

[Shane Hird]

Sheedy never did, And he 'delisted' scores of players over the years.

He always had a man for that job. The job of swinging the hatchet and telling the player he's finished at the club.

Now days..who cares. Every player, young or old, should know what a brutal business footy is at times.

If you're done, you're done. What does it matter who delivers the message.

 

[tigers_of_old_08]

"I walked away from that thinking 'great, I want to play on next year, and it sounds like Mick wants me here next year'.

Things changed however when McLean received a text message from his manager Adam Ramanauskas.

"I was sitting in a bar in Copenhagen...and all of a sudden nek minit I got a text from my manager Rama and he just said 'I don't like where this is going, it's now more likely that you're not going to get one than likely'.

EFA

 

[chunkylover53]

To be fair, do we know for certain it was Mick's decision to cut Brock from the list. I get the feeling the Vet (Andrew McKay) was a big factor in this decision (haven't heard the Morning Glory interview)

Would like to hear Mick's side of the story before passing judgment, also Brock has bit of a 'self-righteous' personality, and i am not surprised he is bitter (even though i think it was the right call to delist him)

Of course Mick had a say, hes the head coach. He goes to Andy Mckay and says I need Brock as depth and leadership for Bell, Whiley, Graham etc, Mckay says sure we will keep him on.

Brock was traded in for pick 11 and got put in the reserves, worked his ass off and not once did he complain. He only made the 22 because of injuries, but due to his hard work paying off and seeing some results he couldn't be dropped again. He was a good servant for the club.

I have no issue with him being delisted, I have a slight issue with the coach not making any contact with him after blasting Waite for behaving in a similar fashion. Its not a good look.

 

[Play by Numbers]

Of course Mick had a say, hes the head coach. He goes to Andy Mckay and says I need Brock as depth and leadership for Bell, Whiley, Graham etc, Mckay says sure we will keep him on.

Brock was traded in for pick 11 and got put in the reserves, worked his ass off and not once did he complain. He only made the 22 because of injuries, but due to his hard work paying off and seeing some results he couldn't be dropped again. He was a good servant for the club.

I have no issue with him being delisted, I have a slight issue with the coach not making any contact with him after blasting Waite for behaving in a similar fashion. Its not a good look.

Head coaches don't have much control over the recruiting and list management side of things these days. Depends on the club and organisation they have, but decisions are usually made in stages and by comittee with the final say in the hands of the head of the football department.

I would suggest its his job also, to discuss trades and delistings with players. It shows a personal touch the coach being involved, but it wouldn't be the default

 

[ExTasDeeMan]

I wonder how long it will be before he goes in an explosive interview and blind freddys Carlton.

(no bitterness, yes we tanked)

 

[chunkylover53]

Head coaches don't have much control over the recruiting and list management side of things these days. Depends on the club and organisation they have, but decisions are usually made in stages and by comittee with the final say in the hands of the head of the football department.

I would suggest its his job also, to discuss trades and delistings with players. It shows a personal touch the coach being involved, but it wouldn't be the default

You're having a laugh if you think guys like Malthouse and Clarkson have little to no power in list management.

 

[AODees]

This is clearly another s**t storm, cooked up by sook McLean... Seems to be a habit of his... Farout!! How's about you pull your head in McLean? Instead of making up bullshit!! Why the media lap up his bullshit has got me beat? I doubt any club will want to go near this dick head again...

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Mick wanted to keep him for depth. However right from the start of the trade period Carlton said that the four out of contract, Robinson, McLean, Lucas and Ellard were under the gun because we needed list spots. When GWS targeted #7 in the Jaksch deal, we started looking at what else we could get. Whiley's recruitment was always going to see McLean out. McLean was overseas, Carlton couldn't make a firm decision either way. Rama told him things were shaky. McKay phoned McLean to let him know they may have to cut him, but hadn't at that stage. They had what Brock said was a 'heated discussion'. Then McKay rang back again to tell him the final decision had been made.

I'm sure Carlton would have called him into the club and Mick would have been present to tell him face to face, but he was away, and doing it over the phone given the way the first phone call had gone was probably counter productive.

Not many players are blindsided by delistings. They have a fair sense towards the end of a season or a contact and in McLean's case he knew he was touch and go about getting another one year deal. He had positive vibes but knew he was no lay down misere. I find it hard to believe that players haven't mentally prepared themselves or starting sounding out other options career wise.

Carlton cut Lucas and Robinson at the same time. Only one of the uncontracted players remains and hasn't signed another deal yet either. Carlton wanted to be absolutely sure they couldn't offer them a spot before delivering the news.

 

[Power Raid]

The List Manager / Footy Manager should probably deliver the news.

But then the coach should ring almost immediately as a common courtesy, followed by the line-coach, captain and half the football department and all his teammates to wish the guy well and invite him out for a drink.

Hear hear

Proper demarcation and the coaches is role is too close and too personal

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

You're having a laugh if you think guys like Malthouse and Clarkson have little to no power in list management.

Exactly. I can't believe people think the coach doesn't have a major say in players on the list. Take 2008 for example. Clarkson was the only person who wanted Stewart Dew on the list, and eventually he got his own way. It wasn't a matter of being outvoted, Clarko wanted him and then convinced the others.

Coaches are major players in list management.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Why the media lap up his bullshit has got me beat?

It saves them all the time and trouble of making up bullshit by themselves.

 

[Stratton_Gun]

I think so. My Dad's mate had a son that played for Essendon (I think it was) around 10 years ago and when he was delisted, he heard it on the news or something and it really wrecked him from playing football for another few years. I know it's a cut throat business but there are ways to go about it

 

[Tas]

Mick wanted to keep him for depth. However right from the start of the trade period Carlton said that the four out of contract, Robinson, McLean, Lucas and Ellard were under the gun because we needed list spots.

Are list spots that critical at Carlton given who have departed?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Are list spots that critical at Carlton given who have departed?

Yeah, there was a blueprint as to what we need and we had an abundance of one paced grunt midfielders.

At the moment we have 32 senior list players. 3 of our remaining rookies have played seniors and 2 have good claims to be elevated even though we will probably go for a 38 + 6 spread and they can spend another year as nominated rookies.

We will use #19, #28, #61 in the draft. We will take Tutt in the PSD and we are looking at a DFA.

We wanted two KPP players (Jaksch, Jones), one HFF (potentially Tutt), a rookie ruck (nobody as yet), a winger (none as yet) and having to work to get Jaksch by picking our best candidate from a list of GWS fringe players, meant we had yet another one paced midfielder.

The weird one for me was getting rid of Lucas as we have precious little outside run.

With Carrazzo and Curnow good run with mids, Bell the bullocking big bodied project player who has greater physical presence than Brock, Cripps and Graham the young up and comers, we have McLean's position covered.

It's purely structure, age and upside from here. Brock is not going to get better, is not going to be more inside (I believe he should be playing a Priddis type role) and doesn't have as much time left as others. I guess we'd rather take a chance on a pacy diamond in the rough at #61 than keeping McLean to fight with Bell and Cripps for final positions in the 22.

 

[Zerg]

Coaches are major players in list management.

Usually they have the ultimate say on delisted/mature players but not for the kids that are drafted they aren't.

Yes they have some say on who and what type of players they want/need but the decision is made by the List manager/team and there have been several cases where boards have had to remind the coach of this as they tried to get their way in who was drafted.

 

[pjcrows]

I find it a bit hard to believe to be honest. I've heard stories about Mick from guys who played under him at Collingwood (who were delisted by him or Buckley) and this story doesn't add up. One of his biggest strengths is his relationships with players.

He's phoning it in.

 

[ShanDog]

It's fair to say that players would want to hear from the coach if they are being delisted, but ultimately the head of football (or equivalent role) is there for that job. They are the ones in charge and are the player's boss.

We all talk about how footy is a business now. That's how businesses run.

Common sense says Mick should have been involved in the process (lol) regarding Brock, though there may be reasons justifying why he didn't, we just don't know them.

 

[SugarCoat]

Rohan Connolly had a fair dig at Mick on radio this afternoon.
He said in the meeting, Mick told McLean he was a required player and would be offered a new deal.
Come a few weeks later, Mick went back on his word.
He said it was hypocritical of Mick to abuse Waite for not being able to tell Mick he was leaving Carlton face to face when he did the same with McLean.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Rohan Connolly had a fair dig at Mick on radio this afternoon.
He said in the meeting, Mick told McLean he was a required player and would be offered a new deal.
Come a few weeks later, Mick went back on his word.
He said it was hypocritical of Mick to abuse Waite for not being able to tell Mick he was leaving Carlton face to face when he did the same with McLean.

McLean was pondering retirement before a meeting with the powers that be.

But a meeting with Malthouse, director of coaching Rob Wiley, fitness boss David Buttifant and football operations head Andrew McKay revealed to McLean the club had a lot more confidence in him than he had in them.
"[It] went really well, and was really positive and gave me a lot of confidence that they want me around next year.
"I caught up with my manager on Friday ... we had a brief chat about it, he's in constant talks with the club just trying to work through it.
"At the moment every indication is that we'll get one done for next year, but until the actual signature's put on the paper you never know. But we're both confident."

However, it wasn't that straightforward.

At that meeting a leadership and mentoring role was outlined for McLean, one with a focus on teaching the Blues' burgeoning youth ranks about the professional standards required to become an elite player.

That's paying a player to be depth and help the young guys develop at VFL level. Clearly not part of the plans for the senior side next year.

That was mid September. 5 weeks later and a lot of water under the bridge, he was delisted. McLean was told for 3 weeks prior that it was touch and go.

Mick could not tell him to his face because McLean was out of the country. McLean has still not been back to the club to get his stuff and so Mick can meet with him. Whose fault is that? In fact, this completely backs up Mick's stance on Waite in that face to face is far more preferable if you are able to do so. The fact that Waite spoke to him at Mick's house, but had already made the decision is the part that grates on Mick

 

[thurmanmunson]

I was annoyed that, when I was made redundant at Telstra, that I wasn't given a phone call by the CEO

 

[HFF]

Of course the coach should be the one delivering the news, after all they are the ones who make the final call.

Seriously, if that did happen as McLean says, very, very poor man management by Mick especially in the wake of his whack on Waite- hypocritical.