List Mgmt. Should The Eagles Request A Priority Assistance Package at The End of This Year?

[Barrybran]

That's great. Good on you.

So your happy to sit back and not ask but happy to watch finals teams and grand finalists getting assistance every single year?

How do we catch up?

Good management.

Noone should be getting priority picks except for extenuating circumstances. I don't mind the suggestion of replacing players who have career-ending injuries / concussions but the problems of the last two years have been largely preventable.

Same story with North, Carlton and Melbourne before us.

 

[twce13]

You missed compensation picks - these should have never existed. If you lose a player through free agency, your compensation is the money you now have to get someone else. That should be it.

And get rid of points completely.
You want a FS or academy player? Then you have to use your next pick after a bid - no stacking low picks to get them.

Could be so simple and straight forward.
Do fs/ academy nominations & bids pre draft, then these are locked in for draft day.

Back to the question though
1) it's a bad look even talking about it after 1 rnd.
2) if we are that bad, as dodgy as they are, Pyke wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't request one. But again... End of season, not now

yeah good point forgot about FA compo. again at the very least get rid of it int he first round and not until the end of the 2nd round at the earliest. such a rort. can't believe how amateur a professional sport can be.

 

[CountryLad]

Seems to be pretty early in the year for this thread. Shouldn’t it be something being discussed around finals time when we actually know how the year has panned out?

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

No. We should be provided the same assistance other clubs get. Including finalists and grand finalists. They are benefiting from academy access EVERY YEAR , multiple free agents and father sons.

Clubs like the Swans and Lions will never bottom out because they are landing top quality academy kids at a 50% discount every year.

That's the reason why we now should get some form of assistance. The best teams are getting it and we are stone motherless last.

This is an incredibly weak argument.

We’ve been in the league for 37 years. It’s not other clubs fault that we have fewer father sons.

You can’t say Ashcroft/Fletcher have anything to do with VIC Bias.

The academies need adjusting. I think the 20% reduction in points should be scrapped. But it’s 20%, not the 50% you claim it to be.

I notice you didn’t rebut any of my arguments, instead made a series of different claims (some wrong) that are very separate to whether we should receive assistance, instead you just listed off a series of personal grievances about current system.

Fremantle and Adelaide have found a way to rebuild their list in the same environment we are currently in.

 

[bzparkes]

Seems to be pretty early in the year for this thread. Shouldn’t it be something being discussed around finals time when we actually know how the year has panned out?

 

[Byron_Clanger]

No, we shouldn't. It's not the rest of the leagues fault we held on too long to injury plagued veterans, it's not the leagues fault we can't maintain or manage a healthy list. We gambled and traded our picks for Tim Kelly

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a year after we won a premiership thinking it would prolong our premiership window, it didn't and the gamble didn't pay off. It's no one's fault but our own.

 

[ghostbat12]

No. We got ourselves in this position. It's up to us to get ourselves out of it. Noone made us do the Kelly trade. Noone made us hand out longer contracts to senior players than we should have post 2018. We'll turn things around without the AFL's help. It just won't happen overnight.

Thats a lazy assessment. System is designed for teams to go from top of ladder to bottom. Teams right at bottom struggle to get out and with all the academies, mid table is worst place to be.

If it was up to us AND were allowed to use tools that we have (cash), you can bet we wouldn’t be at bottom.

We can do better. But it is with arm behind our backs. I am happy for north to get assistance, Richmond is heading that way soon and likely Geelong.

 

[Cornelius Roy]

No, we shouldn't. It's not the rest of the leagues fault we held on too long to injury plagued veterans, it's not the leagues fault we can't maintain or manage a healthy list. We gambled and traded our picks for Tim Kelly a year after we won a premiership thinking it would prolong our premiership window, it didn't and the gamble didn't pay off. It's no one's fault but our own.

We also had two first round picks have their careers ended prematurely due to concussion then we weren’t able to take two of the best prospects in a draft field due to their unwillingness to leave their home state and then we had what should have been a pick 19 get pushed back to pick 30, the impact which could have been, but wasn’t, mitigated by access to an academy pick in the mid twenties.

West coast internally have done a hell of a lot wrong but the system available to rebuild the club is pretty porked at the moment.

 

[Obeanie1]

Good management.

Noone should be getting priority picks except for extenuating circumstances. I don't mind the suggestion of replacing players who have career-ending injuries / concussions but the problems of the last two years have been largely preventable.

Same story with North, Carlton and Melbourne before us.

You know why the Lions and Swans dont need priority picks?

Because the AFL provides other forms of assistance. EVERY YEAR.

Now your argument is only looking at one single aspect of how the AFL equalise the competition. Priority picks. Thats where your argument falls down. The AFL use priority picks, academy access, free agency compensation and allow father son access to assist clubs. Some clubs use these assistance methods every single year. And the Eagles can't and is actually penalised as our picks get shuffled down the order.......EVERY YEAR.

Clubs receiving assistance every year dont deserve that any longer. They arE playing finals and have been for years. So the AFL keep providing assistance to clubs that dont deserve it any longer and dont need it. At our and other clubs expense.

So how does the AFL balance the assistance books? They cant keep allowing assistance to teams playing in grand finals and not help the bottom sides at least become competitive.

You say this problem is all out own doing? BS. Our draft hand gets diluted every draft to assist other clubs who dont need it. How do we control that? We cant.

Players who have retired early due to injury. Venables, Sheppard, Naitanui and Barrass will be next thanks to getting tunneled breaking his back. How could we control that?

The undeniable fact that the high majority of players dont play past 31 anywhere close to their best because of the travel burden over their career. How can we control that?

 

[Barrybran]

You know why the Lions and Swans dont need priority picks?

Because the AFL provides other forms of assistance. EVERY YEAR.

Now your argument is only looking at one single aspect of how the AFL equalise the competition. Priority picks. Thats where your argument falls down. The AFL use priority picks, academy access, free agency compensation and allow father son access to assist clubs. Some clubs use these assistance methods every single year. And the Eagles can't and is actually penalised as our picks get shuffled down the order.......EVERY YEAR.

Clubs receiving assistance every year dont deserve that any longer. They arE playing finals and have been for years. So the AFL keep providing assistance to clubs that dont deserve it any longer and dont need it. At our and other clubs expense.

So how does the AFL balance the assistance books? They cant keep allowing assistance to teams playing in grand finals and not help the bottom sides at least become competitive.

You say this problem is all out own doing? BS. Our draft hand gets diluted every draft to assist other clubs who dont need it. How do we control that? We cant.

Players who have retired early due to injury. Venables, Sheppard, Naitanui and Barrass will be next thanks to getting tunneled breaking his back. How could we control that?

The undeniable fact that the high majority of players dont play past 31 anywhere close to their best because of the travel burden over their career. How can we control that?

Free agency compensation and discounts for academy and father-son selections need to end as well.

I understand where you're coming from but I'd rather Pyke and co point out these inequalities and get them fixed than put our hands out.

 

[Obeanie1]

Free agency compensation and discounts for academy and father-son selections need to end as well.

I understand where you're coming from but I'd rather Pyke and co point out these inequalities and get them fixed than put our hands out.

Evening the ledger using priority picks is fixing the inequalities.

So is allowing bottom 3 teams access to their academies at the same level as the NSW and Qld teams do.

Pointing out the inequalities sure. But the AFL already knows about the inequalities. It describes them as "complicated".

So what is it going to do about fixing them. Whilst continuing supporting its pet teams with ongoing assistance?

 

[Priddis Is Done]

There's a couple of things I'm really scared of.

Get the middling players via FA and trade for them. In the wilderness forever. Never bottom out and never even remotely be close to challenging. But then there will be an exodus of young players.

Accept it will take many years of going to the draft and the young players will leave enmasse. No one wants to spend 5 x years down the bottom. There's more to life.

 

[Obeanie1]

This is an incredibly weak argument.

We’ve been in the league for 37 years. It’s not other clubs fault that we have fewer father sons.

You can’t say Ashcroft/Fletcher have anything to do with VIC Bias.

The academies need adjusting. I think the 20% reduction in points should be scrapped. But it’s 20%, not the 50% you claim it to be.

I notice you didn’t rebut any of my arguments, instead made a series of different claims (some wrong) that are very separate to whether we should receive assistance, instead you just listed off a series of personal grievances about current system.

Fremantle and Adelaide have found a way to rebuild their list in the same environment we are currently in.

The draft has never been as compromised as it is now. Fact. And about to get worse.

Father son rules were brought in to appease the big Vic clubs. Who's benefited the most? Not us, not Freo.

The Northen academies were brought in to balance out lack of father sons and lack of players willing to move to Qld / NSW. Lions are about to bank 3 first round father sons in 3 years and are now a destination club attracting players like Neale, Daniher, Dodee and Dunckley. Swans also top up every year. But the academy access also stays. Why?

The 20% is higher because the AFL allows junk pick trading in to pay for them. Double dipping esentially. Again a list rebuild market non expansion clubs have no access to and cannot manipulate to advantage.

The Crows and Freo havent achieved anything other than being competitive enough to finish mid table. When they start beating the NSW and Qld teams in finals then you can point at them as an example of success.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

The draft has never been as compromised as it is now. Fact. And about to get worse.

Father son rules were brought in to appease the big Vic clubs. Who's benefited the most? Not us, not Freo.

The Northen academies were brought in to balance out lack of father sons and lack of players willing to move to Qld / NSW. Lions are about to bank 3 first round father sons in 3 years and are now a destination club attracting players like Neale, Daniher and Dunckley. Swans also tip up every year. But the academy access also stays. Why?

The 20% is higher because the AFL allows junk pick trading in to pay for them. Double dipping esentially. Again a list rebuild market non expansion clubs have no access to and cannot manipulate to advantage.

The Crows and Freo havent achieved anything other than being competitive enough to finish mid table. When they start beating the NSW and Qld teams in finals then you can point at them as an example of success.

These are all great arguments to fix bidding/FA compo and having a cleaner draft, especially early on in the first round. They are not arguments for draft assistance -which is based on clubs prior performance.

“We need priority picks cos the northern clubs have academies” won’t get very far in my opinion.

 

[Dom sheed pocket]

There's a couple of things I'm really scared of.

Get the middling players via FA and trade for them. In the wilderness forever. Never bottom out and never even remotely be close to challenging. But then there will be an exodus of young players.

Accept it will take many years of going to the draft and the young players will leave enmasse. No one wants to spend 5 x years down the bottom. There's more to life.

We are so far off the pace, we could add 3 B grade free agents and still comfortably be a bottom four 6-7 win team.

There’s no risk of becoming a middling team in the immediate future by recruiting mature talent.

 

[flyinghi64]

Hate the idea of needing/wanting a "hand out" but not as much as I hate been constantly screwed over by the AFL and it's lopsided rules and regulations.
Listening to the commentators gushing how Saints getting Collard was such a bargain and how they would have been so glad he was still available at their pick just pi55ed me off to no end.

Yes we are a proud club with a successful history but if the past 5-6 years have told us anything it is that this competition is far from fair and even. Never really has been but it has gotten a lot worse lately with leg ups and handouts along with concessions for some clubs over others.

Time we got something back if we need it.

 

[Yippy Yi Yeo]

I keep reading and hearing people mention that Chad Warner

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will be a restricted free agent at the end of next year when his contract ends but as far as I'm aware players become free agents after 8 years of service, not 6 and his first season was 2020. Am I missing something or is this just a case of chinese whispers that's caught on?

 

[Obeanie1]

These are all great arguments to fix bidding/FA compo and having a cleaner draft, especially early on in the first round. They are not arguments for draft assistance -which is based on clubs prior performance.

“We need priority picks cos the northern clubs have academies” won’t get very far in my opinion.

What?

Draft assistance should be based on prior performance? Sure. What about current performance?

How long do we need to be uncompetitive for before some form of assistance is warranted then?

And the flip side. When does current performance decide when teams should STOP getting assistance?

THAT's the issue and my argument. If the Eagles dont qualify for assistance then fine, no problems, they dont get any.

But the AFL cant come out and say the Eagles dont qualify for assistance when they just keep shovelling assistance to clubs years ahead of us, playing finals year on year who actually dont need assistance.

You dont rate that argument?

You are happy for the fat and rich can keep getting fatter and richer. And the mob at the bottom of the heap gets nothing and remain severely limited and handicapped in how they can rebuild.

And one thing. The AFL will not take away the academy advantages for the Northern expansion teams. They wont. So they will need to assist struggling teams with some form of equalisatuon measures. Or else the comp ends up like the English premier league.

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Free agency compensation and discounts for academy and father-son selections need to end as well.

I understand where you're coming from but I'd rather Pyke and co point out these inequalities and get them fixed than put our hands out.

Except it is not going to be "fixed". The AFL are control freaks. They want as many levers to pull as they can get to manipulate outcomes. We have to deal with things being the way they are, i.e. many other clubs we are competing with getting help they shouldn't from a hidden hand, as opposed to sit back and descend into a dreamland where no hidden hand exists and refuse help when we are entitled to it as we are waiting for this dreamland to come to fruition. We can lobby for change, but it is unlikely to happen and until it does we have to deal with the situation and play our hand as it is as opposed to how we want it to be.

I think a lot of supporters are delusional and think like the previous club management that because we have always been successfull that means we always will be and there is some anti gravitational force in effect with us that will always propel us over the rest of the competition. They think we don't have to do anything and we will just end up back at the top of the ladder by force of nature. Things have changed. The soft cap has come in. The big advantage we used to have, i.e. more money to have more and better off field resources, is gone.

 

[garlic munchers]

Why wait, we ain't turning this around?

 

[Deplorable trumpster]

Even the idea of the bidding system with academy players doesn't work. Do you really want to bid a high draft pick on a kid who has been part of another club's academy and formed relationships and attachments to other players and the club staff at the academy and whose family live in the same area as that academy? Flight risk after first contract ends would be exponentially higher than with a 17 year old from another part of the country who has not been in anybody else's academy. Clubs will not want to risk a high draft pick plus the massive time, money and other resources invested in players after they are drafted in that situation. I doubt the bids on these kids reflect their true value. Either every club should be allowed an academy with a talent pool of roughly equal size as all the other clubs and every club gets the same rights and access to the players in their academy or nobody is allowed to have an academy.

 

[WCE_phil]

The AFLPA wants restricted free agency at 6 years and unrestricted at 8. We'll see when it happens. Probably just in time for Tasmania to come in and have the AFL throw in extras to get players there.

 

[eaglevision]

I keep reading and hearing people mention that Chad Warner will be a restricted free agent at the end of next year when his contract ends but as far as I'm aware players become free agents after 8 years of service, not 6 and his first season was 2020. Am I missing something or is this just a case of chinese whispers that's caught on?

He won’t be a free agent, he’ll just be out of contract. Huge money offer to him and Sam Taylor (who will be a restricted FA) at the end of next year are going to be absolutely critical to the future. IF we have a top 3 pick next year I hope we offer it for Warner and Sheldrick. Warner could also re-sign with Sydney for 2 years taking him through to FA in 2027 then we could make a play for him via FA but might be too late by then.

 

[ghostbat12]

The AFLPA wants restricted free agency at 6 years and unrestricted at 8. We'll see when it happens. Probably just in time for Tasmania to come in and have the AFL throw in extras to get players there.

Then it will be 4 and 6… and so forth.

Geelong will be happy. They won’t even participate in the draft! amount of houses they will need to build will start distorting the market!

 

[ghostbat12]

Father son rules were brought in to appease the big Vic clubs. Who's benefited the most? Not us, not Freo.

You can’t lump all vic clubs as one and then compare against eagles. Can’t remember too many successful ones at saints, norf, Richmond, Carlton….

They will argue with ashcrofts and cousins that they are the victim!