Politics Should we NOW nationalize our mining sector?

[banner31]

not quite as easy as that as we'll be dragged to the Hague for breach of property rights

it would bankrupt the nation

the miner's would be popping champaign, being the easiest money they ever made

All mines have leases and end dates of those leases that the governments control.
Except the leases Lang Handcock organised as there is no sunset clause in those.

An iron mine is a license to print money, the BHPs & Rio have it down to some $12 to $15 cost to produce a ton including all expenses wages, utilities transportation etc to the point where the iron ore is waiting at port to be loaded.

 

[Power Raid]

All mines have leases and end dates of those leases that the governments control.
Except the leases Lang Handcock organised as there is no sunset clause in those.

An iron mine is a license to print money, the BHPs & Rio have it down to some $12 to $15 cost to produce a ton including all expenses wages, utilities transportation etc to the point where the iron ore is waiting at port to be loaded.

yes leases have end dates but there is also the requirement for the government to extend those leases to the leaseholder at the end of the term if there is compliance with the lease

BHP, Rio and FMG will all boast $12-$15 a ton but we also know that is not quite true. This number is opex and disregards a number of things being the exploration cost, in FMGs case pre strip, capex etc. what we need to look at is "All in Sustainable Costs".

But yes coal, iron ore and O&G are licences to print money and we should tax them higher. We had a dangerous attempt under Rudd which would have bankrupted Australia (yes......Rudd the dope was signing Australia up to bankruptcy). Then Gillard's amended version favoured the major and foreign ownership over Australian ownership.................dumb.

A sensible way to tax these industries is for the states to increase their royalty.

That said we are about to go through massive transition in iron switching to magnetite which no longer has high margins and we need hundreds of billions in investment. We are also likely to see met coal replaced with hydrogen to produce steel. Those that don't make the transition will not only not have a steel industry but also no iron ore mining.

The pressure on coal is clear with the last coal mine ever to be permitted in Australia has probably already been done.

So it is probably pretty important we get the next decade right if our kids are to enjoy the lifestyles our generations did. That said, I need cheap university qualified labour to wipe my butt and make my coffees in my retirement...........both our major parties seem to guarantee at the moment.

 

[Number37]

I voted Labor the last election and will be voting that way again next week, can prove it as well. Anyone that isn't your average Green extremist should realise just how ridiculous the idea is.

??
The idea that you voted Labor is ridiculous?

 

[Power Raid]

??
The idea that you voted Labor is ridiculous?

I can also confirm that the last time I voted, I voted Labor

seems like you're a little out of touch

 

[Number37]

I can also confirm that the last time I voted, I voted Labor

seems like you're a little out of touch

OH I see.
The reference to that imaginary consultancy group with ties to the LNP needed clarification about your voting record, did it?
Cool cool cool.

 

[Pie eyed]

This is laughable

Australian miners control 66% of the world's mining operations. So we not only explore and develop our own opportunities but export our knowledge and know how globally.

and the comment................heard of the CSIRO


oh my

the CSIRO do some wonderful work in metallurgy but mining is a complex business requiring a vast array of skills from finance, accounting, legal, hydromet, met, mining engineers, civil engineers, process engineers, chemical engineers, procurement, logistics, exploration geologists, mine geologists, marketing etc etc.

If governments are so wonderful at mining, why does Australia control 66% of the world's operations? Wouldn't we see governments controlling 66% if the model was so wonderful?

I had to laugh.
You make it sound like it would be impossible for just any fat old campaigner to run a ming company?

I present you....the facts.

It's digging s**t up.
They pay qualified people educated in our under funded universities to find it, qualified people educated in our under funded universities to work out how to extract it, qualified people educated in our under funded universities to design the infrastructure to ship it, extract it, refine it.

The fat campaigner just owns the license, oft handed down by dad.

Any moderately qualified administrator could run a mine and a mining business.

The real art is corrupting the politicians, and from the evidence abundantly available, Morrison and his deadshits come cheap, and easy.

 

[Pie eyed]

I can also confirm that the last time I voted, I voted Labor

seems like you're a little out of touch

I voted Liberal.

 

[Kram]

This is laughable

Australian miners control 66% of the world's mining operations. So we not only explore and develop our own opportunities but export our knowledge and know how globally.

and the comment................heard of the CSIRO


oh my

the CSIRO do some wonderful work in metallurgy but mining is a complex business requiring a vast array of skills from finance, accounting, legal, hydromet, met, mining engineers, civil engineers, process engineers, chemical engineers, procurement, logistics, exploration geologists, mine geologists, marketing etc etc.

If governments are so wonderful at mining, why does Australia control 66% of the world's operations? Wouldn't we see governments controlling 66% if the model was so wonderful?

Ahh the ignorance and pure idiocy of the unwashed meatheads always provides a chuckle.

Mining is a capital intensive and often technically difficult game that requires highly educated, trained and experienced people to run operations as well in the management of finances. Being basically pinned to a commodity/commodities prices also presents a challenge as a business. Exploration is of course rather challenging as well and can take many attempts and a lot of capital sunk to finally strike good.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Any moderately qualified administrator could run a mine and a mining business.

I'm currently working in a gold mine in Vic. which is run by administrators / number crunchers, they have no idea. The parent company has brought in experienced mine personnel to take over.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Ahh the ignorance and pure idiocy of the unwashed meatheads always provides a chuckle.

Mining is a capital intensive and often technical difficult game that requires highly educated, trained and experienced people to run operations as well in the management of finances. Being basically pinned to a commodity/commodities prices also presents a challenge as a business. Exploration is of course rather challenging as well and can take many attempts and a lot of capital sunk to finally strike good.

I've just recently finished a 3 1/2 year stint with BHP WAIO at Mining Area C / South Flank, prior to that 6 1/2 years at BHP, Nickel West, the difference between the two is stark.

Iron Ore have too much money that they waste in copious amounts and too many people, it's top heavy, full of people with no idea. They promote people from within, who have spent years doing things wrong and they pass their bad habits onto their teams.

Everywhere you look at iron ore mines is pretty much iron ore. You blow it up, load it onto a truck, dump it into a crusher, put it on a train, put it in a ship and send it to China. It's really not that much more complicated, you just have to keep the wheels turning, the crushers crushing and the conveyors running.

The pity for Nickel West now is that Iron Ore people are starting to get leadership and management roles and bring all their ****ed up Iron Ore processes with them, they're like a cancer.

I'm glad to be out of both of them, although I really did enjoy my time with NiW.

Iron Ore is like shooting fish in a barrel. They should be getting charged a mountain more for the privilege of being able to dig it up and sell it.

 

[Kram]

I've just recently finished a 3 1/2 year stint with BHP WAIO at Mining Area C / South Flank, prior to that 6 1/2 years at BHP, Nickel West, the difference between the two is stark.

Iron Ore have too much money that they waste in copious amounts and too many people, it's top heavy, full of people with no idea. They promote people from within, who have spent years doing things wrong and they pass their bad habits onto their teams.

Everywhere you look at iron ore mines is pretty much iron ore. You blow it up, load it onto a truck, dump it into a crusher, put it on a train, put it in a ship and send it to China. It's really not that much more complicated, you just have to keep the wheels turning, the crushers crushing and the conveyors running.

The pity for Nickel West now is that Iron Ore people are starting to get leadership and management roles and bring all their f’ed up Iron Ore processes with them, they're like a cancer.

I'm glad to be out of both of them, although I really did enjoy my time with NiW.

Iron Ore is like shooting fish in a barrel. They should be getting charged a mountain more for the privilege of being able to dig it up and sell it.

True, bulk commodities like iron ore are a bit different but still.

 

[Power Raid]

I had to laugh.
You make it sound like it would be impossible for just any fat old campaigner to run a ming company?

I present you....the facts.

It's digging s**t up.
They pay qualified people educated in our under funded universities to find it, qualified people educated in our under funded universities to work out how to extract it, qualified people educated in our under funded universities to design the infrastructure to ship it, extract it, refine it.

The fat campaigner just owns the license, oft handed down by dad.

Any moderately qualified administrator could run a mine and a mining business.

The real art is corrupting the politicians, and from the evidence abundantly available, Morrison and his deadshits come cheap, and easy.

what would be the top 10 risks in running a mining company? please think of not just technical risk but social and those that would lead to jail time

and how do you build the right team if one is "moderately competent"

then consider if a moderately qualified administrator could do the job



Can you give examples of moderately competent?

 

[Pie eyed]

I'm currently working in a gold mine in Vic. which is run by administrators / number crunchers, they have no idea. The parent company has brought in experienced mine personnel to take over.

LOL. Yep. You run the mine single handed.
Three of my relatives have worked in the mining industry for decades.
Kalgoorlie, Karratha, Gidgee, PNG, South Africa, Rhodesia (when it was Rhodesia.
Iron ore, diamond, gold, nickel, zinc, tin.


From crushing plant manager to manager, to COO.

Just like any business on earth which is run by people, which is all of them.


This idea that you have to be a brilliant operator to run any kind of business is asinine.
the idea that a Government could not hire exactly the same people is abject stupidity.

It helps to be smart sure.
It mainly requires hard work, experience and time.
I was not born into my profession, I learned it like every single other person on the planet.

 

[Power Raid]

LOL. Yep. You run the mine single handed.
Three of my relatives have worked in the mining industry for decades.
Kalgoorlie, Karratha, Gidgee, PNG, South Africa, Rhodesia (when it was Rhodesia.
Iron ore, diamond, gold, nickel, zinc, tin.


From crushing plant manager to manager, to COO.

Just like any business on earth which is run by people, which is all of them.


This idea that you have to be a brilliant operator to run any kind of business is asinine.
the idea that a Government could not hire exactly the same people is abject stupidity.

It helps to be smart sure.
It mainly requires hard work, experience and time.
I was not born into my profession, I learned it like every single other person on the planet.

and who will govern the mining operations from safety and the environment if the operator is the government?

 

[Number37]

and who will govern the mining operations from safety and the environment if the operator is the government?

So it's not the mining operations that would be difficult for a govt to run....it's now the safety and environment aspects.

KKPR consulting is as cooked as the LNP.

 

[Power Raid]

So it's not the mining operations that would be difficult for a govt to run....it's now the safety and environment aspects.

KKPR consulting is as cooked as the LNP.

No I have been consistent with my position that the government and in particular the CSIRO could not run a mining operation

I have simply highlighted the compounding issue that there would be no separation between the operator and regulator.

 

[Number37]

No I have been consistent with my position that the government and in particular the CSIRO could not run a mining operation

I have simply highlighted the compounding issue that there would be no separation between the operator and regulator.

Haven't you run a mining company?

Your honour, no further witnesses. The defence rests.

 

[sataris]

Haven't you run a mining company?

Your honour, no further witnesses. The defence rests.

Is running a mining company more complicated than running an economy?

if you can't trust the libs to run a mine, can you trust them to run a country?

 

[Power Raid]

Is running a mining company more complicated than running an economy?

if you can't trust the libs to run a mine, can you trust them to run a country?

How did the rolling out of optic fibre go?

 

[Power Raid]

Is running a mining company more complicated than running an economy?

if you can't trust the libs to run a mine, can you trust them to run a country?

There is a big difference between policy setting and operations.

We also see the important roles of government such as the RBA and the courts removed from our executive.


Government should govern!

 

[Power Raid]

Haven't you run a mining company?

Your honour, no further witnesses. The defence rests.

Prosecution btw

You can’t even get that right

 

[sataris]

How did the rolling out of optic fibre go?

The LNP sabotaging the rollout of Fibre to preserve Rupert's strangle-hold on Australia isn't the 'gotcha' you think it is.

 

[Number37]

Prosecution btw

You can’t even get that right

This is a civil, not criminal, case homeboy...so it's applicant or respondent...if we're going to play it by the book.

 

[Number37]

Is running a mining company more complicated than running an economy?

if you can't trust the libs to run a mine, can you trust them to run a country?

Running a trillion dollar economy is heaps easier than running a billion dollar mining company.
Everybody knows that.

 

[Pie eyed]

and who will govern the mining operations from safety and the environment if the operator is the government?

ROFL if you think a private mining company gave a flying heck about those issues.
unles of course you specifically refer to a Liberal Government.
Are you just being stupidly sarcastic even mentioning them?
Hard to read the mood from a post. Were you on the rug having a belly laugh as you typed???