Siege in Martin Place, Sydney

[DarwinRoo]

Sure, and then we'd be listening to the "why are the army involved in a domestic situation, that's the police's job, the police have negotiators who could have ended it peacefully OMG we're living in a military dictatorship" crowd.

However it was done, there were going to be some people unhappy.

And in response to that you say "We have one dead criminal and all hostages are alive" Drop mic.

The professionals are an hour down the road and you don't even consult them?

 

[Illinois Nazi]

And in response to that you say "We have one dead criminal and all hostages are alive" Drop mic.

"Why didn't you shoot the gun out of his hand?"

The professionals are an hour down the road and you don't even consult them?

It's not as easy as that. There are very strict legislative rules around State vs. Commonwealth responsibilities, using armed forces in domestic incidents etc etc.

 

[DarwinRoo]

"Why didn't you shoot the gun out of his hand?"


It's not as easy as that. There are very strict legislative rules around State vs. Commonwealth responsibilities, using armed forces in domestic incidents etc etc.

Dress them in cop uniforms and you wouldn't know the difference. Except it wouldn't have one bloke throwing 4 flash bangs into the room.

 

[Illinois Nazi]

Dress them in cop uniforms and you wouldn't know the difference. Except it wouldn't have one bloke throwing 4 flash bangs into the room.

Sure, that wouldn't lead to any questions later on about why people who aren't police were dressed in police uniforms in order to subvert the legislative requirements surrounding the handling of such incidents.

 

[DarwinRoo]

Sure, that wouldn't lead to any questions later on about why people who aren't police were dressed in police uniforms in order to subvert the legislative requirements surrounding the handling of such incidents.

Well they ****ed up either way and the breech of the cafe was a disaster.

 

[Illinois Nazi]

Well they stuffed up either way and the breech of the cafe was a disaster.

That's exactly my point. No matter when/how it was done, they would be criticised by somebody.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

How is it a disaster when you only lose one more life than the minimum expected

 

[VineyIsLORD]

"Why didn't you shoot the gun out of his hand?"


It's not as easy as that. There are very strict legislative rules around State vs. Commonwealth responsibilities, using armed forces in domestic incidents etc etc.

Fair point. The one thing that has been consistently stated in all the reviews, is that based on the available evidence (and in spite of certain politicians pretending it was terrorism) this wasn't a case of terrorism, so calling in TagEast was probably against the rules anyway.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

How is it a disaster when you only lose one more life than the minimum expected

When about 8 bullets from a police hit a hostage

 

[Procrastinator35]

When about 8 bullets from a police hit a hostage

Indeed....Why on earth a police sniper never took this piece of s**t out, when they had a clear shot, has me buggered....Major utensil-up.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

How is it a disaster when you only lose one more life than the minimum expected

because of a ricochet from a round that fractured no less.

its the bloodlust mob who want to have police retrained to have a first shoot second and shoot some more response to any such incidents. they wanted it from the start, the unfortunate death resulting from the raid simply justifies bringing in a shoot first approach in their mind.

just look through the various threads on bigfooty 2 hours into the siege "Go in and ******* kill him" "send in the army, send in the SAS" of course we have examples from all around the world what this mentality leads to from russia through to UK after the underground bombing, or everyday in america. kids killed in their cots by flash grenades, people having police storm there houses with M4's when they politely answer the door and co-operate. people who are lying on the ground shot in the leg, men executed on trains for carrying backpacks.

it always leads to an increased loss of life and an increase in police grossly misjudging a situation. meanwhile since the lindt cafe siege, NSW police have responded to over 20 incidents involving people making threats towards others with firearms. including 3 hostage situations. result 0, absolutely ZERO deaths. hell just this week there was a siege situation in 7 hills involving a man on his roof threatening to kill himself and "everyone who comes near him" and "that bitch too" with a rifle which was in his hands.

he was talked down after a 2 hour stand off, the incident ended just like the 19 other incidents ended, without a single life being taken. But * statistics, * all the times it goes right.

no, no we need to get rambo up in this bitch.

this is how gun ho american police roll up on a house for an outstanding loan:

this is a NSW police ambush of a bikie group suspected to be carrying firearms, drugs and explosives many of the suspects have an extensive criminal history involving violent crimes:

NSW police have one of the lowest rates of officer involved shootings for an armed police force, they have one of the lowest rates of police officers being shot, they have one of the lowest rates of police abuse complaints for an armed police force, they have one of the lowest rates for deaths in custody for any police force, not just in this country, but in the world.

So far in NSW the only time police resort to a shoot first mentality is with an active shooter.
that is someone actually discharging a weapon. what we do not need is a piss weak, knee jerk reaction which leads to an over use of force in future incidents.

the police commissioner should never have accepted responsibility for the tragic outcome of the siege, he should have stood by his officers, their protocols and told in the inquest go * itself.

 

[LicoriceAllsorts]

When about 8 bullets from a police hit a hostage

Didn't remember that

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Didn't remember that

Initially claimed it as a ricochet but I'm pretty sure it has come up in the questioning that she was hit by a lot of bullets, but the details suppressed from being released to the public.

Could be wrong on the detail, but remember the line of questioning from relatively recently, like in the last two months or so.

 

[Lester Burnham]

Indeed....Why on earth a police sniper never took this piece of s**t out, when they had a clear shot, has me buggered....Major utensil-up.

Because apparently the deputy tactical commander of the NSW police did not believe the sniper would have had the legal authority to take the shot, and the commander was of the view that he could not ignore Man Monis as an individual. "he had the same rights as anyone else".

 

[Procrastinator35]

Because apparently the deputy tactical commander of the NSW police did not believe the sniper would have had the legal authority to take the shot, and the commander was of the view that he could not ignore Man Monis as an individual. "he had the same rights as anyone else".

Then he has no business being a deputy tactical commander.