Discussion Soccer/Association Football New Kits

[rabbitoh21]

The diagram has the Catala variation next to each type of Barca kit. My question is: how often do Barca wear the Catala kit, and has it ever been their home jersey?

Catalan kits were only fairly recently introduced, right after the Tequila Sunrise IIRC. I threw them in just for comparison with the home, since ideally, most people here like seeing aways kept as similar as possible to the home.

Literally wot m8

Bayern in recent years have worn:

Three different colour variants, four different design variants, and no-one has had any trouble recognising them. Departing from one design feature hasn't cheapened or degraded their history in any way, contrary to statements made above that the Barca stripes have been there for 115 years and therefore shouldn't be changed. Bayern Munich are one of the proudest clubs in Europe and haven't had their history cheapened by design experimentation, so why would that cheapen Barca's?

 

[Craegus]

The diagram has the Catala variation next to each type of Barca kit. My question is: how often do Barca wear the Catala kit, and has it ever been their home jersey?

Rarely as a full kit, but it has appeared as a design element. Never as a home kit, but like the away it has been an element on the kit.

 

[Craegus]

Bayern in recent years have worn:

Three different colour variants, four different design variants, and no-one has had any trouble recognising them. Departing from one design feature hasn't cheapened or degraded their history in any way, contrary to statements made above that the Barca stripes have been there for 115 years and therefore shouldn't be changed. Bayern Munich are one of the proudest clubs in Europe and haven't had their history cheapened by design experimentation, so why would that cheapen Barca's?

Bayern have also worn all those styles throughout their history, and many of the above designs are throwbacks to them (all but the hoops), as such they cannot be compared to Barcelona.

Bayern Kits from 1900-1989

 

[Dylan8]

Catalan kits were only fairly recently introduced, right after the Tequila Sunrise IIRC. I threw them in just for comparison with the home, since ideally, most people here like seeing aways kept as similar as possible to the home.

Bayern in recent years have worn:

Three different colour variants, four different design variants, and no-one has had any trouble recognising them. Departing from one design feature hasn't cheapened or degraded their history in any way, contrary to statements made above that the Barca stripes have been there for 115 years and therefore shouldn't be changed. Bayern Munich are one of the proudest clubs in Europe and haven't had their history cheapened by design experimentation, so why would that cheapen Barca's?

OK lets take a step back - you said

So clubs like Bayern who have worn white hoops, blue stripes or pure red jerseys have no history then? THat's a pretty superficial attitude towards a fairly proud club...

This was not implied whatsoever in craegus' post.

Munich haven't had a constant design feature on their shirts for a hundred years. This case is completely inapplicable to that of Barcelona's.

 

[rabbitoh21]

Catalan kits were only fairly recently introduced, right after the Tequila Sunrise IIRC. I threw them in just for comparison with the home, since ideally, most people here like seeing aways kept as similar as possible to the home.

Bayern in recent years have worn:

Three different colour variants, four different design variants, and no-one has had any trouble recognising them. Departing from one design feature hasn't cheapened or degraded their history in any way, contrary to statements made above that the Barca stripes have been there for 115 years and therefore shouldn't be changed. Bayern Munich are one of the proudest clubs in Europe and haven't had their history cheapened by design experimentation, so why would that cheapen Barca's?

To add on to this, here's their kits for the last 25+ years. Don't tell me that Bayern have had any less variation than Barca or that Barca are making a completely unprecedented change to their kits when compared to other continental European clubs.

Bayern have also worn all those styles throughout their history, and many of the above designs are throwbacks to them, as such they cannot be compared to Barcelona.

OK lets take a step back - you said

This was not implied whatsoever in craegus' post.

Munich haven't had a constant design feature on their shirts for a hundred years. This case is completely inapplicable to that of Barcelona's.

Please tell me you're both joking? And you've missed the point on my postings completely. The point I have made is that, contrary to most of the arguments against the hoops, other clubs have made even more drastic design and colour changes than Barca, yet no one has considered them to the detriment of a clubs history. The two FCB's, Barca and Bayern, are perfectly comparable as two clubs with a strong history, worldwide brand reach and on-field success and prestige. They are arguably both the premier clubs in their respective league (although Barca would share that with Real Madrid in La Liga), and there is plenty of room to compare and contrast the club. Don't try and say you can't compare them, that's a blatant lie and misjudgement.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Halves are as big a step away from stripes as hoops are.

Blackburn Rovers couldn't start wearing hoops and claim that it fit with tradition because it was a "vertical design". Their fans would go berserk. Halves is a distinctly different design feature.

Just about every club in the world has a step away from tradition in terms of shirt design from time to time. The German clubs do it every year, but even the relatively conservative Premier League has tons of examples.

As shown with the halves only a few kits ago, a step away from tradition isn't completely unheard of for Barcelona.

If they cared about their kit being a "traditional Barca kit", they'd lose the sponsor.

 

[rabbitoh21]

Halves are as big a step away from stripes as hoops are.

Blackburn Rovers couldn't start wearing hoops and claim that it fit with tradition because it was a "vertical design". Their fans would go berserk. Halves is a distinctly different design feature.

Just about every club in the world has a step away from tradition in terms of shirt design from time to time. The German clubs do it every year, but even the relatively conservative Premier League has tons of examples.

As shown with the halves only a few kits ago, a step away from tradition isn't completely unheard of for Barcelona.

If they cared about their kit being a "traditional Barca kit", they'd lose the sponsor.

The English clubs have come from a much more conservative background, the British clubs all around are completely different to their continental counterparts. Arsenal haven't strayed from their design since they adopted white sleeves, save for the currant jersey they left Highbury in.

Also I agreed with your post and that's why I quoted it, as a reference. I agree wholeheartedly with the Blackburn point.

 

[Dylan8]

I'd actually argue that Barcelona is far more recognisable than Munich with their variations of red, red/white and red/blue, actually.

It may not be detrimental to them, I mean nothing really could be as long as they dont change their colours completely or something since they're so big, but it would have been great to see them retain that look historical. It just screams cheap marketing ploy to sell shirts.

 

[Craegus]

To add on to this, here's their kits for the last 25+ years. Don't tell me that Bayern have had any less variation than Barca or that Barca are making a completely unprecedented change to their kits when compared to other continental European clubs.
View attachment 133076

Please tell me you're both joking? And you've missed the point on my postings completely. The point I have made is that, contrary to most of the arguments against the hoops, other clubs have made even more drastic design and colour changes than Barca, yet no one has considered them to the detriment of a clubs history. The two FCB's, Barca and Bayern, are perfectly comparable as two clubs with a strong history, worldwide brand reach and on-field success and prestige. They are arguably both the premier clubs in their respective league (although Barca would share that with Real Madrid in La Liga), and there is plenty of room to compare and contrast the club. Don't try and say you can't compare them, that's a blatant lie and misjudgement.

Bayern and Barca are not the same, yes they have long histories but one club has switched and changed designs and colours throughout their history and the other has stayed almost perfectly consistent with vertical designs (be it stripes or halves) for their entire history. If you can give me a club that has changed completely after 100 years of basically the same design (that hasn't been taken over or rebranded) then we can discuss but so far there is no comparison.

Arsenal haven't strayed from their design since they adopted white sleeves, save for the currant jersey they left Highbury in.

Arsenal's 1965-67 (return to completely red shirts) and to some point their 2008-2010 (thin white outlined in blue stripes on sleeve and sides) designs would go against your point there.

It may not be detrimental to them, I mean nothing really could be as long as they dont change their colours completely or something since they're so big, but it would have been great to see them retain that look historical. It just screams cheap marketing ploy to sell shirts.

Exactly, it does scream cheap marketing ploy more than anything else.

 

[El_Scorcho]

The English clubs have come from a much more conservative background, the British clubs all around are completely different to their continental counterparts. Arsenal haven't strayed from their design since they adopted white sleeves, save for the currant jersey they left Highbury in.

Also I agreed with your post and that's why I quoted it, as a reference. I agree wholeheartedly with the Blackburn point.

Even in the super conservative English designs, you've got in the Premier League era off the top of my head:

Man United wearing a chevron
Aston Villa wearing thick stripes
West Brom and Southampton ditching their stripes for pinstripes
Birmingham City adopting an ajax style thick central stripe
Tottenham wearing navy sleeves
West Ham ditching their blue sleeves

 

[Craegus]

Even in the super conservative English designs, you've got in the Premier League era off the top of my head:

Man United wearing a chevron
Aston Villa wearing thick stripes
West Brom and Southampton ditching their stripes for pinstripes
Birmingham City adopting an ajax style thick central stripe
Tottenham wearing navy sleeves
West Ham ditching their blue sleeves

And how many of those were welcomed by the masses?

 

[rabbitoh21]

I'd actually argue that Barcelona is far more recognisable than Munich with their variations of red, red/white and red/blue, actually.

It may not be detrimental to them, I mean nothing really could be as long as they dont change their colours completely or something since they're so big, but it would have been great to see them retain that look historical. It just screams cheap marketing ploy to sell shirts.

Cheap marketing ploy? By wearing a new home jersey in club colours, seeing as every European club changes their home jersey somewhat every year. Okay.

Bayern and Barca are not the same, yes they have long histories but one club has switched and changed designs and colours throughout their history and the other has stayed almost perfectly consistent with vertical designs (be it stripes or halves) for their entire history. If you can give me a club that has changed completely after 100 years of basically the same design (that hasn't been taken over or rebranded) then we can discuss but so far there is no comparison.

"100 years of basically the same design"? I don't see the hoops as a "changed completely" moment, especially seeing as halves and the gradients are NOT stripes designs. Otherwise I'm sure the geniuses who kit out Newcastle United, Juventus, Inter and just about every other stripes club would probably have tried these designs. Alas, they haven't, so point void.

Arsenal's 1965-67 (return to completely red shirts) and to some point their 2008-2010 (thin white outlined in blue stripes on sleeve and sides) designs would go against your point there.

Oh wow, one (and a half) example(s). The latter one still kept the sleeves white essentially, at least in terms of front and rear view, and are still enough of a reference to pass as an Arsenal design. In any case, such a minor design change did not leave the club a) unrecognisable or b) out of line with their kit history.

Exactly, it does scream cheap marketing ploy more than anything else.

What screams of cheap marketing ploy would be simply thinning, widening or adding pinstripes or gradients to the design. Barca fans and kit collectors have a reason to buy a new jersey design, rather than a slightly modified, regurgitated design.

 

[rabbitoh21]

Even in the super conservative English designs, you've got in the Premier League era off the top of my head:

Man United wearing a chevron
Aston Villa wearing thick stripes
West Brom and Southampton ditching their stripes for pinstripes
Birmingham City adopting an ajax style thick central stripe
Tottenham wearing navy sleeves
West Ham ditching their blue sleeves

And how many of those were welcomed by the masses?

They weren't. But they have set a precedent of clubs experimenting with "traditional" designs. Something which is a) a sign of the times and b) necessary to sell merchandise and keep clubs afloat. Considering the precedent of design change, stripes to hoops isn't exactly a big problem to me.

 

[Dylan8]

A sign of the times - the times of pointless drastic changes. Brilliant.

Barca were really struggling with merch sales, this cheap ploy is worth it. #savebarca

 

[rabbitoh21]

A sign of the times - the times of pointless drastic changes. Brilliant. Barca were really struggling with merch sales, this cheap ploy is worth it. #savebarca

The idea that this is any worse than any other minor design change is just ludicrous.

 

[Dylan8]

The idea that this is any worse than any other minor design change is just ludicrous.

It's worse than that gradient shite from a couple of years back, which was bad enough, but at least it was a variation on a common theme. I consider hoops and stripes to be drastically different design elements.

 

[justlookingaround]

Quite simply put, clubs like Bayern and Barcelona can wear whatever the eff they want and still be the biggest clubs in the world.
The royal and red stripes felt like they could've stayed a long time for Bayern, so their omission of blue from their forthcoming kit is a little more jarring, but it's obviously still Bayern. Put blue and dark red together and it's distinctively Barca.
Every kid with a soccer ball in the world wanted a Barca gradient shirt, if any other club whipped that up, it'd be retrospectively one of the worst ever produced.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I'm not saying it's a good change.

I'm just saying it's not a big deal in the scheme of football kit changes. Some people (not on here) are complaining as if it's at a Cardiff City level of spitting in the faces of the supporter base through a kit change. It's not. It's still very clearly a Barcelona kit.

 

[Craegus]

I'm not saying it's a good change.

I'm just saying it's not a big deal in the scheme of football kit changes. Some people (not on here) are complaining as if it's at a Cardiff City level of spitting in the faces of the supporter base through a kit change. It's not. It's still very clearly a Barcelona kit.

I get your and rabbitoh's argument, but it kind of is as big as Cardiff's change, though the colours are the same, and it is I guess recognisable as a Barcelona kit, the long held tradition of the club is being messed with. As people have said it would be like Collingwood going with hoops.

Will the design sell? Yes, especially seen Barca sell 1.1M jerseys a year, but it is at the expense of a long held history that really should not have been nor should be messed with.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I get your and rabbitoh's argument, but it kind of is as big as Cardiff's change, though the colours are the same, and it is I guess recognisable as a Barcelona kit, the long held tradition of the club is being messed with. As people have said it would be like Collingwood going with hoops.

This I guess is the point of contention and where we'll agree to disagree.

I don't really see it being any different from when they had halves.

Cardiff was a massive change to everything about how the club looked. To use Collingwood as a metaphor, it would be like Collingwood running out in red and blue stripes and changing their logo to a shark because sharks are cooler than magpies.

Collingwood coming out in hoops would be an infinitely bigger change than Barca doing it, because Collingwood have had the same design for almost 120 years, effectively unchanged apart from manufacturing processes, and Collingwood actively market themselves as a black and white stripes only team. It would take an enormous backflip on everything Collingwood stand for visually for that to happen.

With Barca that's not really the case. They experiment with their design every year, usually variations on vertical stripes, but there have been some that don't fit that description. This change is more akin to West Ham dropping their blue sleeves to fit with an Adidas template (and producing a really cool kit in the process) than Collingwood adopting hoops.

 

[Klim]

This is the new Bayer Leverkusen 2015-2016 Home Kit. The new Adidas Bayer Leverkusen 2015-16 Home Kit draws inspiration from the iconic red and black stripes kits, worn during the most successful era of the German club when they reached the Champions League final against Real Madrid in 2002. Adidas uses a modern v-collar with the trademark polka dots designs, which can be also seen on the bottom of the shirt and the sleeve cuffs.

This is the Adidas Bayer Leverkusen 2015-16 Away Shirt.

 

[Bacon Warrior]

LOL WANDERERS MUCH

//fjgd

 

[rabbitoh21]

Will the design sell? Yes, especially seen Barca sell 1.1M jerseys a year, but it is at the expense of a long held history that really should not have been nor should be messed with.

Such as no sponsors, then no commercial sponsors, then Qatar Airways?

This is the new Bayer Leverkusen 2015-2016 Home Kit. The new Adidas Bayer Leverkusen 2015-16 Home Kit draws inspiration from the iconic red and black stripes kits, worn during the most successful era of the German club when they reached the Champions League final against Real Madrid in 2002. Adidas uses a modern v-collar with the trademark polka dots designs, which can be also seen on the bottom of the shirt and the sleeve cuffs.

This is the Adidas Bayer Leverkusen 2015-16 Away Shirt.

"What designs do we have that we can give BL?"
"Any clubs in the Liga wearing the German away kit?"
"Nein."
"Perfekt."

 

[Macca_]

 

[akkaps]

The black one would look so much better with a red AON logo.