StKilda - The Lost years

[Catsmaninamerica]

Great article in today's HUN

What i had forgotten, was how many players they took from other clubs that then spuded it up. What we constantly hear from Freo supporters, is that Ross Lyon wasnt the recruiting manager. But I'd bet London to a brick he had the lions share of decision making when it came to adding players from other lists. That plus the fact that any good young players drafted that just werent developed or given opportunities to play senior footy - (That is the best fast track for development - learning from champions of the game during a game - no substitute for that)

Ross Lyon should hang his head in shame at what he has done to that club.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...worst-in-history/story-fni5ezi5-1226980866631

The Saints’ drafting in 2008, 2009 and 2010 has proved so poor it has been referred to as The Lost Years.
Not one player drafted to St Kilda in 2009 is still at the club. The Cats sat at the draft two months after that Grand Final armed with five picks in the top 56 selections. St Kilda had one - Nick Winmar at pick 32 - after it traded away its first and third round picks for Andrew Lovett and Brett Peake.
All five Cats from 2009 - Mitch Duncan, Allen Christensen, Nathan Vardy, Daniel Menzel and Josh Cowan - are still at Simonds Stadium.
None of this is anything St Kilda supporters wouldn’t already know, but only now is the pain truly hitting home.
2008:
Rhys Stanley
Farren Ray
Robert Eddy (Gone)
Andrew McQualter (Gone)
Tom Lynch (Gone)
Nick Heyne (Gone)
Alistair Smith (Gone)
Paul Cahill (Gone)
Colm Begley (Gone)
2009:
Nick Winmar (Gone)
Jesse Smith (Gone)
Adam Pattison (Gone)
Will Johnson (Gone)
Zac Dawson (Gone)
Luke Miles (Gone)
Andrew Lovett (Gone)
Brett Peake (Gone)

2010:
Arryn Siposs
Tom Simpkin
Jamie Cripps (Gone)
Sam Crocker (Gone)
Tom Ledger (Gone)
Ryan Gamble (Gone)
Dean Polo (Gone)

 

[invinciBlues]

He rides them hard and puts them up wet. It works to an extent when you go all in for a flag tilt, but if it doesnt pay off there seems to long term repercussions. They really should have blooded more youngsters during their peak period.

 

[jim boy]

All five Cats from 2009 - Mitch Duncan, Allen Christensen, Nathan Vardy, Daniel Menzel and Josh Cowan - are still at Simonds Stadium.

To be fair, Menzel will be lucky to play another match, Vardy spends far more time in rehab than on the field and Cowan has earned the nickname MH370. The other two go alright though

 

[Lach72]

lol

 

[Lach72]

To be fair, Menzel will be lucky to play another match, Vardy spends far more time in rehab than on the field and Cowan has earned the nickname MH370. The other two go alright though

Ouch

 

[Father Jack]

How much say does a coach have in drafting/recruitment these days?

 

[clogged]

To be fair, Menzel will be lucky to play another match, Vardy spends far more time in rehab than on the field and Cowan has earned the nickname MH370. The other two go alright though

Is he off the coast of WA somewhere?

St Kilda's drafting between 2008-2010 would have to be pretty bad to beat Freo's from 04-06.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

He rides them hard and puts them up wet. It works to an extent when you go all in for a flag tilt, but if it doesnt pay off there seems to long term repercussions. They really should have blooded more youngsters during their peak period.

What i think doesnt get nearly enough consideration, is the development vs drafting theory. Im certain that if Travis Varcoe had been drafted by Richmond for example, he wouldnt still be an AFL player. But he went to Geelong - who took their time, developed him and let him find his niche in AFL footy. He is now an elite ball user and gut runner and a very important part of our side. Conversely, if Richard Tambling had gone to Hawthorn - as was predicted pre draft - Ill bet he'd have been developed into a super player. The reality is that drafting is a part of the equation, but not the whole equation. We are now seeing a complete lack of development of those players drafted under Lyon's tenure, and the result is that they fall so far behind the older seasoned players that Grant Thomas developed that they had to be delisted to make room for each draft that was upcoming. Personally, I reckon drafting is 40% but the development is 60%.

 

[clogged]

Conversely, if Richard Tambling had gone to Hawthorn - as was predicted pre draft - Ill bet he'd have been developed into a super player.

Like Mitch Thorp or Beau Dowler?

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

Like Mitch Thorp or Beau Dowler?

Neither of them eked out over 100 games of AFL footy. Tambling did, under duress at a rabble of a club. He also never had the injuries of either of those players. Actually a really dumb, ignorant ill informed comparison to tell the truth.

 

[clivenator26]

This thread AGAIN...by this poster again...

Ross has debuted 13 players in his 3 years at the club, 3 of those are locks in the best 22 (Spurr, Neale, Sutcliffe), only 2 (Michie, Forster) aren't on the list anymore & another 2 were emergencies in the finals last year (Sheridan & Crozier). We've recruited Dawson, Pearce, Gumbleton & Sylvia, all bar Gumby would be in our best 25 and none of them cost much more than chump change.

 

[clogged]

Neither of them eked out over 100 games of AFL footy. Tambling did, under duress at a rabble of a club. He also never had the injuries of either of those players. Actually a really dumb, ignorant ill informed comparison to tell the truth.

What injuries did Mitch Thorp have to cope with? Painfully misplaced arrogance?

As usual, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and this is just another pissweak troll thread.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

To be fair, Menzel will be lucky to play another match, Vardy spends far more time in rehab than on the field and Cowan has earned the nickname MH370. The other two go alright though

Even if you'd drafted all young talent as Geelong did in those 3 years, instead of trading for talent like Polo, Lovett and Peake, and kept 2 players per year of the calibre of Christensen, Motlop and Guthrie - thats 6 quality players that are now making a huge difference to the core of your list.

 

[stormee]

Ross Lyon should hang his head in shame at what he has done to that club.

 

[invinciBlues]

What i think doesnt get nearly enough consideration, is the development vs drafting theory. Im certain that if Travis Varcoe had been drafted by Richmond for example, he wouldnt still be an AFL player. But he went to Geelong - who took their time, developed him and let him find his niche in AFL footy. He is now an elite ball user and gut runner and a very important part of our side. Conversely, if Richard Tambling had gone to Hawthorn - as was predicted pre draft - Ill bet he'd have been developed into a super player. The reality is that drafting is a part of the equation, but not the whole equation. We are now seeing a complete lack of development of those players drafted under Lyon's tenure, and the result is that they fall so far behind the older seasoned players that Grant Thomas developed that they had to be delisted to make room for each draft that was upcoming. Personally, I reckon drafting is 40% but the development is 60%.

I see where you're coming from, but I vaguely remember in 2009 that St Kilda didnt play a first gamer until the tail-end of the season, and then he didnt play again that year. Lyon seems to be a bloody hard taskmaster. I wouldnt be surprised if most of their kids left due to not getting a game.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

What injuries did Mitch Thorp have to cope with? Painfully misplaced arrogance?

As usual, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, and this is just another pissweak troll thread.

hahahaha google mitch thorpes career. He had a million injuries. And no not a troll. The facts are in the article. What is pissweak, is your inability to have a rational discussion, instead putting on your "you bagged my coach so i will fight you" hat. laughable. I look forward to 2017 with great delight. That is when i reckon the wheels will really fall off.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

This thread AGAIN...by this poster again...

Ross has debuted 13 players in his 3 years at the club, 3 of those are locks in the best 22 (Spurr, Neale, Sutcliffe), only 2 (Michie, Forster) aren't on the list anymore & another 2 were emergencies in the finals last year (Sheridan & Crozier). We've recruited Dawson, Pearce, Gumbleton & Sylvia, all bar Gumby would be in our best 25 and none of them cost much more than chump change.

Genuinely. If He has learned from his mistakes and continues to blood and develop quality draftees throughout his entire tenure at Freo - then good on him for being open to change. Genuinely mean that. but it doesnt change the Stkilda situation, that imo he is wholey responsible for.

 

[clogged]

So St Kilda recruited poorly under Lyon.

What influence did Lyon have over them to get Beau Maister? What influence did Lyon have over them to trade pick 12 (!) to get Tom Lee (where is he now)? Why did they pick up Trent Dennis-Lane?

 

[invinciBlues]

What injuries did Mitch Thorp have to cope with? Painfully misplaced arrogance?

Career ending foot injury that no other club was prepared to take a chance on. It seems the only misplaced arrogance here is yours.

 

[clogged]

Career ending foot injury that no other club was prepared to take a chance on. It seems the only misplaced arrogance here is yours.

He played two games in three years. His last famous act on an AFL list was to tell Tom Harley he was going to finish his career (in the reserves).

He was crap - had belief beyond ability.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Was expecting to read an article about the 1980's.

Lyon is and was a superb coach. Saints no doubt made heaps of trading and drafting mistakes along the way though but despite that they were a couple of kicks away from two flags. Nobody would call it the lost years. It was a golden period for them.

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

He played two games in three years. His last famous act on an AFL list was to tell Tom Harley he was going to finish his career (in the reserves).

He was crap - had belief beyond ability.

curious. Did you ever actually see Mitch Thorp play footy? Im betting not. he was a gun junior. Key position forward who could clunk a mark and had amazing running ability. there is a reason he was taken at number 6, before Joel Selwood. Yep his attitude sucked, but that doesnt change his talent one iota.

 

[clogged]

curious. Did you ever actually see Mitch Thorp play footy? Im betting not. he was a gun junior. Key position forward who could clunk a mark and had amazing running ability. there is a reason he was taken at number 6, before Joel Selwood. Yep his attitude sucked, but that doesnt change his talent one iota.

Pre-draft talent is just that, pre-draft.

He was not up to it at AFL level and Hawthorn couldn't get the best out of him.

You still haven't answered my question. Why did St Kilda trade a first round draft pick for a WAFL player who now cannot get a game?

 

[Catsmaninamerica]

Pre-draft talent is just that, pre-draft.

He was not up to it at AFL level and Hawthorn couldn't get the best out of him.

You still haven't answered my question. Why did St Kilda trade a first round draft pick for a WAFL player who now cannot get a game?

did you ever see him play? na didnt think so.

 

[clivenator26]

I see where you're coming from, but I vaguely remember in 2009 that St Kilda didnt play a first gamer until the tail-end of the season, and then he didnt play again that year. Lyon seems to be a bloody hard taskmaster. I wouldnt be surprised if most of their kids left due to not getting a game.

Which StK kids that have left are now stars? Tom Lynch is a handy player but I can not think of any other young players that left. In fact one of them in David Armitage paid tribute to Ross last week for showing him how to prepare and said he wouldn't have got to 100 games if it weren't for Ross.

As previously pointed out by other posters, stk since Ross left have made some terrible decisions, Scott Watters walked into the joint and declared they would be a juggernaut.

I'm not sure one bloke who is the coach has that much say on matters such as trades & drafting and IF he did then that is Stk's problem, Ross' job is to coach and a coach will want what he wants, if he doesn't report to anyone then obviously he will make decisions in his best interest, but I don't recall reading out the draft picks for Stk or Freo for that matter.