Storm been stripped of premierships

[KissStephanie]

I think some of the penalties are fair, such as the fining and the stripping of points

In a number of ways, this is the biggest corporate fraud scandal since Enron. Maybe not on a financial level of course, but because it's a sporting club, it effects so many people emotionally. Most of the players that believed they had legitimately played in at least one premiership winning team over the past three years, are no longer premiership players.

Many of the Melbourne Storm supporters are very loyal, and that includes my brother in law and his two sons, and many of these people have followed every tackle made and try scored, as well as celebrated two premierships that no longer exist. A monetary figure can't be placed on that of course, and for Rob Moodie to claim that it is the lowest day in the clubs history is a ridiculous understatement because it is the lowest day in the history of any of the clubs in Australian rugby league ever.

but making this year pointless is rediculous

Yes possibly, although $700,000 over this year is quite a lot. It seems those involved kept pushing the envelope by increasing the amount they were breaching the salary cap by.

and to strip Melbourne of its history... WRONG

It's wrong for the players that had no idea, which is most of them, and it's wrong for the supporters. It's hard to say whether taking two premierships away is appropriate for a $250,000 breach in 2007, and a $400,000 breach last year, but there may be more hidden money trails out there. Whether another club would have been hit so hard is speculation.

this is the death of the storm, I was going to their game on the 9th of May... I will still go if their still a club... Which is doubtful.

If Brian Waldron is the head man behind this, and possibly Matt Hanson as well, then I hope he receives a similar fate to that of former Enron president Jeff Skilling because such greed and fraud has hurt many people. It appears that it's a police matter now, so hopefully that is what will occur. Waldron was also involved with Richmond and St.Kilda as Football Operations Manager, and then CEO, while Hanson was Chief Financial Officer at St.Kilda. Hopefully their past involvements will be thoroughly investigated as well.

 

[robbieando]

The Parramatta and Manly should be given the premierships it is as simple as that. In the Tour de France when somebody is done for cheating the person in 2nd is named the winner. Stupid decision by the NRL.

Why? Your comparing a Grand Final to a event that is timed.

With a timed event (or race), you can easily remove a cheater and promote the next person or persons up the list. With a Grand Final its a one off match. Now sure its simple to say that Manly and Parramatta should be award the Premierships, but you can then make the case with the Storm have cheated in those years they shouldn't of been in the finals altogether and hence changed the make up of each of the finals they competed in.

So basically the Premierships have been left vacant for 07 and 09 because the Storm changed the make up of the finals and its hardly fair to reward losing teams with Premierships when they can't prove they would of beaten other teams because of the way the finals are set up.

 

[Caesar]

YIn a number of ways, this is the biggest corporate fraud scandal since Enron.

That's got to be the dumbest thing not posted by Military_man that I've ever read on BigFooty.

 

[DeadlyAkkuret]

So no, this is not a good day for any supporter. Not to mention now the eventual 2010 premiers will have a slight cloud of 'was Melbourne better than them?' hanging over.

Not really, as the only reason Melbourne would have been better is because they cheated. The winner of the 2010 NRL Premiership can justifiably say they're the best team in the league.

 

[moto748]

Amazing news. When I saw the thread title (first I'd heard) I naturally thoguht it was some kind of spoof. This must be very bad news for league in Australia and Melbourne especially.

For those who said players will go abroad, don't forget there's a salary cap in Superleague too. I suppose the worry for the players is that they'll end up in European union, which despite not attracting large crowds, seems to have money to burn.

I'm no fan of the Storm, but no lover of the game wants to see this. A sad day indeed.

 

[dr nick]

Why? Your comparing a Grand Final to a event that is timed.

With a timed event (or race), you can easily remove a cheater and promote the next person or persons up the list. With a Grand Final its a one off match. Now sure its simple to say that Manly and Parramatta should be award the Premierships, but you can then make the case with the Storm have cheated in those years they shouldn't of been in the finals altogether and hence changed the make up of each of the finals they competed in.

So basically the Premierships have been left vacant for 07 and 09 because the Storm changed the make up of the finals and its hardly fair to reward losing teams with Premierships when they can't prove they would of beaten other teams because of the way the finals are set up.

meh.

Manly Warringah, reigning NRL Premiers

 

[dr nick]

with regards the Bulldogs punishment, theirs wasn't as severe as the storm basically because they weren't as successful as the storm.

If St Kilda were found to be cheating the salary cap when Waldron was at the helm, what can the AFL do? Do you think anyone would give a rats if their 13th place was stripped from them?

The problem I had with the Bulldogs is the fact that they were able to win a Premiership 2 years later on the back of a team they were able to assemble via salary cap rorting, as they all agreed to just take pay cuts.

I agree with Paul Kent in that there should be a dismantling of the current Storm team rather than an agreement for each player take a 20% pay cut and retain the same team.

 

[Paul Kersey]

Paul Kent (News ltd journalist) on the Matty Johns Show was just saying that he might be gone by the end of the week.

Of course he was assuming that Craig knew about it. I'm 50/50 whether he did know.

Two contracts per player. You'd suggest that at the bare minimum the relevant players would be aware that something funny was transpiring - I can't imagine they just got given an extra page to execute and that was that. That's the bare minimum. Who knows what may have been discussed come negotiation time. In saying so, I doubt any player has committed any criminal offences (acting in an immortal manner and unethical manner is another thing if they did have knowledge) by accepting what's been put to them - these are people who have professional advisers who they rely on (ie managers, solicitors, accountants). The alleged criminal behaviour appears to stem from deliberately maintaining incorrect records, something which is clearly legislated against in the Corporations Act 2001. They may also be breaches of the director duties which extend to employees. Who knows what Bellamy knew and I don't care to speculate though I think my comments on the players is justifiable. I'd also be surprised if it was a case of the auditor "coming across" a specific book, smells more like a whistleblower has tipped them off. These sorts of things aren't just left lying around and the more people know of something, the bigger chance of it coming out. Anyhow, I'm currently listening to "Thanx for nothin'" by Overkill - I dedicate this song to the people responsible and involved in this at the club.

 

[BigVic]

This is what would happen to the West Coast Eagles during the Ben Cousins' affair. They were rumours about stripping of Premiership points, but that did'nt happen.

 

[robbieando]

In a number of ways, this is the biggest corporate fraud scandal since Enron.

Dumb, dumb comment.

Ever heard of the Italian Match Fixing Scandal of 2006 which saw Juventus stripped of 2 titles and regelated to Serie B?

 

[Paul Kersey]

In a number of ways, this is the biggest corporate fraud scandal since Enron. Maybe not on a financial level of course, but because it's a sporting club, it effects so many people emotionally.

I'd hestitate to guess recent corporate collapses in Australia such as Chartwell & Storm Financial let alone the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme in the US are a bit more scandulous and have impacted people one million times more than a sporting club (potenitally) collapsing due to paying $1.7million outside the salary cap the past five years.

 

[m0nty]

It's not even the biggest corporate fraud scandal this month, compared to Goldman Sachs.

 

[Showbag]

The only successful club I've ever followed capable of beating anyone week to week, making the finals year after year is now no more to me. I feel sick. I feel so bad for the players and coaches.

 

[XFactor1979]

This is what would happen to the West Coast Eagles during the Ben Cousins' affair. They were rumours about stripping of Premiership points, but that did'nt happen.

thats because of the soft mentality of the afl

 

[dr nick]

According to NRL website the Bulldogs cheated by 2 million dollars over 3 years...

Where does it say that?

It was $920,000 over 2 years, and two officials were incarcerated over it.

 

[Final Siren]

In many ways it is the biggest corporate fraud scandal since Enron, even though it is not on a financial scale as I stated. If you disagree, then can you put a monetary value of taking away two premierships from players and supporters, as well as the remainder of this season?

Consider the emotional value of people losing their life savings, their houses, their retirements, their ability to support themselves, and so on. That shit costs marriages and lives.

 

[robbieando]

with regards the Bulldogs punishment, theirs wasn't as severe as the storm basically because they weren't as successful as the storm.

Agreed

If St Kilda were found to be cheating the salary cap when Waldron was at the helm, what can the AFL do? Do you think anyone would give a rats if their 13th place was stripped from them?

The AFL wouldn't strip the position, they would take Draft Picks away from them from the next National Draft and impose a Fine.

The problem I had with the Bulldogs is the fact that they were able to win a Premiership 2 years later on the back of a team they were able to assemble via salary cap rorting, as they all agreed to just take pay cuts.

I agree with Paul Kent in that there should be a dismantling of the current Storm team rather than an agreement for each player take a 20% pay cut and retain the same team.

The problem is how do you dismantle a team? If they aren't allowed to take pay cuts then most will end up in England, as most NRL clubs have already planned ahead for next year, which the majority are close enough to the cap as it is so couldn't take on an a Hoffman, White, Lima or Cronk etc.

Plus the Storm's Toyota Cup team won the Under 20's last year so will have players coming though anyway. So its one thing to suggest it, another to do it.

 

[dr nick]

The problem is how do you dismantle a team? If they aren't allowed to take pay cuts then most will end up in England, as most NRL clubs have already planned ahead for next year, which the majority are close enough to the cap as it is so couldn't take on an a Hoffman, White, Lima or Cronk etc.

Plus the Storm's Toyota Cup team won the Under 20's last year so will have players coming though anyway. So its one thing to suggest it, another to do it.

You open up player contracts and let other clubs have first dibs at them on the free market prior to the no negotiations deadline. Obviously the current long term contracts (eg Cooper Cronk) won't be allowed to stand as it includes over and above what was declared to the NRL.

Many will be queuing up ala Brett Finch to be released this year to play for a club that will be at the pointy end of Finals 2010.

They're welcome to replace their losses with the boys from the Toyota Cup.

 

[KissStephanie]

That's got to be the dumbest thing not posted by Military_man that I've ever read on BigFooty.

Well to me it's dumb when people respond to selective parts of a post that suits them without elaborating at all. In many ways it is the biggest corporate fraud scandal since Enron, even though it is not on a financial scale as I stated. If you disagree, then can you put a monetary value of taking away two premierships from players and supporters, as well as the remainder of this season? Can you give an example of another such corporate scandal since 2002? The ones that come to mind for me are the Bernie Madoff Investments ponzi scheme, the Anglo Irish Banks hidden loans controversy, and AIG's structured financial schemes.

I'd hestitate to guess recent corporate collapses in Australia such as Chartwell & Storm Financial let alone the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme in the US are a bit more scandulous and have impacted people one million times more than a sporting club (potenitally) collapsing due to paying $1.7million outside the salary cap the past five years.

Yes, possibly so, but I still believe in many ways it's the biggest corporate fraud scandal since Enron. Not in all ways though of course, but I didn't say that.

Consider the emotional value of people losing their life savings, their houses, their retirements, their ability to support themselves, and so on. That shit costs marriages and lives.

Of course they do, but which corporation fraud scandal since 2002 are you referring to, and the number of people effected? In many ways, the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme is the biggest corporate fraud scandal since Enron, but also in many ways (not all ways), this is the biggest corporate fraud scandal in that time, and I hope those responsible are sent to prison as well.

 

[duffman324]

So how much is my signed 2007 ball worth now?

 

[Whacker]

In many ways I'm a better prime minister than Kevin Rudd. In some ways not all ways.

I can spin things also

 

[moto748]

If they aren't allowed to take pay cuts then most will end up in England, as most NRL clubs have already planned ahead for next year

As I said upthread, don't forget there's a salary cap in England too. The real threat is that they'll be lost to RU, which for some reason always seems to have plenty of money to throw around in the Northern hemisphere.

Somehow I can't imagine Billy Slater in St. Helens.

I mean, have you ever been to St. Helens?

 

[Messenger]

As someone who has what could be best described as a passing interest in Rugby League, answer me these:

1. How do you take away a premiership? Do fans throw their DVD of the game in the bin? Do players give their medals back? Do they forget the game they played.

2. Why scrub premiership point prospectively? They have just created a meaningless fixture every week and created a nightmare for bookmakers and other teams.

3. If your team is on the cusp of the finals but gets passed in the final round by the team playing wooden spooners Melbourne (who gave up ten weeks ago) in the last round of the season will you be pleased they are getting their comeuppance? That's a self-inflicted wound, NRL.

I think the viability of the Storm is in grave doubt now. Corporate supporters will desert them, News Ltd will walk away and the only fans that remain are the rusted on core. Forget signing free agents, forget keeping stars who are going to spend the next 20 weeks playing for last.

 

[Caesar]

Of course they do, but which corporation fraud scandal since 2002 are you referring to, and the number of people effected? In many ways, the Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme is the biggest corporate fraud scandal since Enron, but also in many ways (not all ways), this is the biggest corporate fraud scandal in that time, and I hope those responsible are sent to prison as well.

WorldCom, AIG, Madoff, Goldman Sachs, Anglo Irish, AIG, Parmalat just to name a few off the top of my head. Even just in Australia you have Westpoint, Storm Financial... the list goes on.

 

[tugga]

As someone who has what could be best described as a passing interest in Rugby League, answer me these:

1. How do you take away a premiership? Do fans throw their DVD of the game in the bin? Do players give their medals back? Do they forget the game they played.

They can take the cup away, but I doubt anyone can force the players to hand back their rings.

2. Why scrub premiership point prospectively? They have just created a meaningless fixture every week and created a nightmare for bookmakers and other teams.

The team that is playing against the Storm still has a 'live' two points up for grabs.

3. If your team is on the cusp of the finals but gets passed in the final round by the team playing wooden spooners Melbourne (who gave up ten weeks ago) in the last round of the season will you be pleased they are getting their comeuppance? That's a self-inflicted wound, NRL.

AFL faces this every year with the tanking debate.

I think the viability of the Storm is in grave doubt now. Corporate supporters will desert them, News Ltd will walk away and the only fans that remain are the rusted on core. Forget signing free agents, forget keeping stars who are going to spend the next 20 weeks playing for last.