The Gap between hawthorn and richmond

[have a RHG]

They have 5 or 6 players over the age of 30 with 200+ games experience. We have 0

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

The hardest part about a GF is getting throught the Season to play in one...

 

[Madtiger2006]

Gap isn't much at all. We should have made top 4. Just need that extra crumbling forward. Hawks have half a dozen players in their early 30s

 

[jokershoppe]

We need more vfl listed stars to help our draftees develope quicker and more top end talent to stop guys like cotch, deledio etc having to star for us to win, and got to make it impossible to pick whom to tag.

 

[prodigy1311]

At this point, the gap is huge and anyone who thinks we will get remotely close to them in finals are delusional. Let's first focus on winning a final FFS
They just won their 4th premiership in 7 years and we just lost our 3rd elimination final in a row..! No comparison

 

[TigerImposter]

Gap= KAC-DH =KAC

 

[pebblestone]

True but Maclure said the best coaches and leaders are the players and player coaches were present in the past.

The point I am trying to make is IMO, if we are realistic we need to be looking in 2-3 years time not next year meaning getting the Plowman, Bugg, Weller types now, pushing Yarran back, let Freo and others have their shot while we get stronger with more quality draft talent to and get big FA targets later from front loading replacing Hawks when they decline as well as North so in 3 years time our list is very strong like Hawthorn capable of contending for multiple premierships.

GC are not a cause of worry now and GWS are looking iffy as well with the loss of Treloar not to mention others in the past and their list management conflicts

If a club that finishes 5th 2 years out of 3 is not going to go full tilt at a flag we may as well shut up shop and forget the whole thing. This building for the future that you are ALWAYS on about would not get us anywhere, because you're looking 2-3 years ahead all the time, but guess what. The futurenever comes. If we're in Carlton's position it makes sense but from 15 wins is gutless.

 

[Groupie_]

They have 5 or 6 players over the age of 30 with 200+ games experience. We have 0

are any of em retiring this year ?

 

[Rimmer]

Interesting interviews I heard and read post the Grand Final ... it seems it took a good part of the season for Frawley to pick up, learn and master the Hawthorn game plan. It must be fearfully complicated.

So they need to draft players not only for talent but to have the 'nous' to be able to learn and master the Hawthorn play book ...

No discredit to Dimma or any other coach but it seems Clarkson is well ahead of his time tuning the Hawk machine like an NFL coach. If you look at the successful coaches of the modern era, the ones who have won multiple premierships, each of them has been like a chess master often being the decisive factor in a game where both teams look pretty equal on paper. Master coaches become the 19th man on the field. Sheedy was always worth 4 goals to Essendon during his reign.

I think as I look at the Hawthorn and Richmond teams and imagine a combined 'best of' that we would have nearly half the combined team, so its not as if we are rubbish, in fact player for player I think we are likely the best equipped in the competition to challenge Hawthorn in 2016 and stymie their attempt to win the fourth in a row ... the question is can our game plan evolve enough for us to be able to react to the moves of the 'Grand Master' coaches.

How far are we behind Hawthorn? We have more options for talented talls on our forward line ... our backline is at least as good led by the number one backman in the comp in Alex Rance ... Maric is better than any of the Hawk rucks being competitive at the bounce and marks and contributes more around the ground ... our best mids are good but we trail Hawthorn a little with depth there ... I think where we trail, and this has been shown in our three-peat of quick exits from finals, our game plan is not complex enough or resilient enough or creative enough to react to a Clarkson.

We should have been able to anticipate and react to Malthouse in 2013 and Scott in 2015, in both cases I feel on paper we had the better team.

If we are to match Hawthorn in 2016 we need to become more tactical and add to our play book. I believe Hardwick is the leader to do this, I think he needs to if possible add another experienced tactical assistant coach (preferably a recent Clarkson assistant)

For us it is likely that recruiting say Ratten would be more helpful than recruiting Bennell or Treloar ...

 

[smasha]

What would West Coast have done if you put those same Hawthorn players in Richmond jumpers?
West Coast would smell blood and hunt them down like Norf do.
We are a club that has a big target on our back even compared to Hawthorn.
We have to hunt back next year.

 

[KiwiTiger]

Richmond----->East Richmond----->Burnley----->Hawthorn.

Haere Ra

 

[Greggy]

I honestly think the Hawks have been helped by the 2 franchise teams joining, they were ready to go and fully stocked when most of the teams that should've been competing this year were limited by the draft concessions over that 3 year period, obviously there are other factors but if North and Richmond had a few more A graders we'd be kicking arse.

 

[Tiger2709]

They win finals

They've never won one against us

 

[Tiger2709]

Clarko let slip a week or so ago that their players would be under more pressure at training than in most games.

Also, only excellent kicks drafted. Brad Hill was a slight exception due to his speed but even then Clarko sent him to the VFL for ages until his kicking, on both sides, was satisfactory.

I still can't understand why more professional footballers cant kick on both sides, even in the under 17's back in the 70's we were practising to kick and handball on both sides.

 

[pebblestone]

I still can't understand why more professional footballers cant kick on both sides, even in the under 17's back in the 70's we were practising to kick and handball on both sides.

It does my head in. It's so basic I can't understand why they aren't forced to work hard on it.
First half of preseason they can only kick on their wrong side, while they're working more on fitness and patterns etc. As the preseason progresses and better quality work is required then regular side is reintroduced. Am I being silly or overly simplistic?

 

[Komrade_Tiger]

It does my head in. It's so basic I can't understand why they aren't forced to work hard on it.
First half of preseason they can only kick on their wrong side, while they're working more on fitness and patterns etc. As the preseason progresses and better quality work is required then regular side is reintroduced. Am I being silly or overly simplistic?

coaches think fitness takes priority in the modern game, and with the interchange cap coming in. Its only going to get more key (fitness)

 

[jc12]

After seeing another one sided grand final again- what is the distance and the factors that we need to address to get to the top that a Hawthorn does so well? Are we their yet? Thoughts welcome- here are some ideas:

1. they recruit players based on needs- Frawley. we need an inside mid and ruck and flanker goal kicker. We have deficiencies.
2. thier players play consistent accountable footy- playing thier role- we have deficiencies.
3. Players are skilled and kit targets. We have deficiencies.
4. Coaching staff- focused and game plan- not sure about this, can dimma and team take us to the next level
5. Off field success- money management and membership- we are there.

our list isnt that bad, something we really lack in spades, is a inside mid, mental strength and leadership

hawks to their credit dont get fazed win loss or draw, they also give s**t to their opponent, thats what i want us to do, give some niggle, give s**t to campaigners who tag cotchin, legit scare the opp, if a player gets suspended for a week or two who gives a s**t. hawks are also tough under pressure, when it counts they just do it, us ? we crumble in 3 elimination finals in a row when the opp starts to pressure us second half.

granted we have improved in these areas in the past 3 years (the hawks game where we niggled them is the blueprint) but we just arent consistent enough at it. we could legit recruit noone but if we are tougher and mentally strong i can see us finishing top 4 and winning a final for once, though of course this is easier said than done

 

[RobsJourney]

Really like this photo, hopefully that's Dimma next year!
Wonder what Clarko said at that moment...

 

[Groupie_]

Hawks only lost Hale and Lake. old campaigners mitchell and burgoyne playing on again (selfish.gif)

They'll win it again next year

 

[Tigerish09]

Since 1980 Hawthorn have won 9 flags to our 0. In that time they have been on the brink of a merger and we also had our financial difficulties circa 1990 and beyond. 9 flags to 0 is a staggering statistic. What has Hawthorn done so well that we haven't in that time? A few thoughts:
They were known as the "family club", we were known as ruthless.
They understood the Draft and made better selections, it took us a long time to fully understand the implications of the Draft and how important it was for future success. There was a long-held view that we could just buy the players we needed.
Lack of stability with administrations
In-fighting, have heard this from other sources, not sure about it as every club has a certain amount of in-fighting.
Are the above the reason we couldn't attract top coaches and players? Were our facilities below par?
With the membership we had in the early eighties and the history/tradition we had, we should have done much better than Hawthorn, yet we've done poorly when you compare our records. Are there other reasons for this gap?

 

[Groupie_]

theyre on drugs as were the 80s hawks

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

Man I swear there are Hawthorn plants in here.
They've been incredible but I'm sick of ******* hearing about the campaigners.
No offence either it was a nice post.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

In 10 years time, 10-9 to us.

Problem solved.

 

[Tiger71]

Dont we already have a hawks gap thread ?

 

[Tigerish09]

Dont we already have a hawks gap thread ?

That was more on the current playing list, I wanted to go back a bit further and reflect on that extended period. Maybe now we are putting into place some of the things that successful clubs do ie stability, financial strength etc. Hopefully we have the blueprint for continued success.