News The Hawthorn Allegations

[PIEWITHSAUCE]

The outcome of this should interesting indeed. It's all based on what the accusers thought they heard and how they interpreted it. Read the whole letter. More tax payers money down the drain in the name of Politics

I always cringe a bit when a complaint is based on "my truth" , "our truth" etc.......it generally indicates a wide gap between real intent and how things have been taken/interpreted which makes it very hard to mediate.

 

[noideaatall]

Doesn’t really matter how well it sits with you although I note you broadly agree with what I said.

Without context we don’t really know whether these coaches were racist or just Ill-advised and lacking sufficient empathy and expertise in these matters. Or innocent of all allegations for that matter. We don’t know how close to the line they got.

No, I do not broadly agree. Intuitively I think this is a broad generalisation, only true in specific circumstances. In regards to this situation, I don't believe the term tough love is relevant. I suggest when specific details are available we will find the lines are clear. For example Burt's description of attending the players home with Fagan, Clarkson & his mother crossed a clear line to me.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

No, I do not broadly agree. Intuitively I think this is a broad generalisation, only true in specific circumstances. In regards to this situation, I don't believe the term tough love is relevant. I suggest when specific details are available we will find the lines are clear. For example Burt's description of attending the players home with Fagan, Clarkson & his mother crossed a clear line to me.

Burt already admitted that was insensitive and an error in judgement to not attend alone. That in itself is not a racist act.

You’re free to believe that the lines will be clear when the facts are known. I prefer to have an open mind and not jump to such conclusions.

 

[noideaatall]

Burt already admitted that was insensitive and an error in judgement to not attend alone. That in itself is not a racist act.

Yep, the clear line I was referring to is inappropriate dealings with an employee. Burt alludes to this. They had stepped into a grey area, the fine boundary between tough love and racism (if it indeed exists) behind them. Whether it is solely inappropriate, whether it is abuse of power or whether it was racist will come down to the details. No fine line though.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Yep, the clear line I was referring to is inappropriate dealings with an employee. Burt alludes to this. They had stepped into a grey area, the fine boundary between tough love and racism (if it indeed exists) behind them. Whether it is solely inappropriate, whether it is abuse of power or whether it was racist will come down to the details. No fine line though.

In this case….The line is not just inappropriate dealings with an employee. The line specifically Is inappropriate dealings with First Nations employees.

As I said in a seperate post, there will be many non indigenous players over the years who will also have been given frank and direct advice about their lifestyle choices. It may well be a matter of perception as to whether these indigenous players were treated the same, or whether they were treated harsher, or indeed if they just should have been treated differently, because of their backgrounds.

 

[ThePhantom777]

Without knowing details seems like Hawthorn were trying to provide specific support for indigenous players and that support crossed the line, becoming invasive. Kennett's previously reported comments aren't great.

 

[noideaatall]

In this case….The line is not just inappropriate dealings with an employee. The line specifically Is inappropriate dealings with First Nations employees.

When we have the full details, then we can make our personal decision as to whether this line was crossed, and the HRC can make their decision or whatever. Point is, no fine line with tough love, coaching group had already moved into questionable territory.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

When we have the full details, then we can make our personal decision as to whether this line was crossed, and the HRC can make their decision or whatever. Point is, no fine line with tough love, coaching group had already moved into questionable territory.

Semantics but ok.

 

[cityslick1]

Feel free to suggest what more could they have done other than appoint an entriely independent and expert panel to investigate?

maybe having more credibility with these sorts of inquiries as a starter... maybe then the accusers wouldve felt safe to actually participate in the process. As far fetched as it sounds. They didnt, and their instincts were right, with the "nothing to see here, everyone happy, lets move on" verdict. I wouldnt be surprised if the HRC exposes more and the AFL are again left to look like a powerful organisation looking to manipulate outcomes to protect their brand. Not a great look for the sport when at the professional level there are accusations of senior figures intervening in private relationships and family planning decisions...

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

maybe having more credibility with these sorts of inquiries as a starter... maybe then the accusers wouldve felt safe to actually participate in the process. As far fetched as it sounds. They didnt, and their instincts were right, with the verdict. I wouldnt be surprised if the HRC exposes more and the AFL are again left to look like a powerful organisation looking to manipulate outcomes to protect their brand. Not a great look for the sport when at the professional level there are accusations of senior figures intervening in private relationships and family planning decisions...

You don't think if they testified that the "nothing to see here, everyone happy, lets move on" outcome might not have occurred?

 

[cityslick1]

You don't think if they testified that the "nothing to see here, everyone happy, lets move on" outcome might not have occurred?

No. It was a great get out jail card for the AFL. Theyve washed their hands now, and look at the sh*tstorm that has already followed...

 

[sideswipe]

maybe having more credibility with these sorts of inquiries as a starter... maybe then the accusers wouldve felt safe to actually participate in the process. As far fetched as it sounds. They didnt, and their instincts were right, with the "nothing to see here, everyone happy, lets move on" verdict. I wouldnt be surprised if the HRC exposes more and the AFL are again left to look like a powerful organisation looking to manipulate outcomes to protect their brand. Not a great look for the sport when at the professional level there are accusations of senior figures intervening in private relationships and family planning decisions...

Once again, other than appointing an independent panel, what alternative action could the AFL have taken? Lay out a substantive suggestion.

"Having more credibility" doesn't make sense. That isn't an action.

 

[manicpie]

No. It was a great get out jail card for the AFL. Theyve washed their hands now, and look at the sh*tstorm that has already followed...

That's what happens when you leak something. As soon as it gets in the media, it's then fair game. The AFL probably had to close it down seeing that it got nowhere for 8 months

 

[Pie eyed]

maybe having more credibility with these sorts of inquiries as a starter... maybe then the accusers wouldve felt safe to actually participate in the process. As far fetched as it sounds. They didnt, and their instincts were right, with the "nothing to see here, everyone happy, lets move on" verdict. I wouldnt be surprised if the HRC exposes more and the AFL are again left to look like a powerful organisation looking to manipulate outcomes to protect their brand. Not a great look for the sport when at the professional level there are accusations of senior figures intervening in private relationships and family planning decisions...

Lacking any input from the accusers, exactly what other outcome could the enquiry come to?

"The AFL has announced no adverse findings against Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan or Jason Burt over the Hawthorn racism allegations."

They did not say anything other than "no adverse findings"

Absolutely all they could find.

 

[cityslick1]

Lacking any input from the accusers, exactly what other outcome could the enquiry come to?

"The AFL has announced no adverse findings against Alastair Clarkson, Chris Fagan or Jason Burt over the Hawthorn racism allegations."

They did not say anything other than "no adverse findings"

Absolutely all they could find.

You need to watch the full presser. “Have the player’s issues been resolved…?” “Yes, they have been resolved with the afl”. Along with the players truths being heard has provided some healing etc. the players then refuted all of this in their statement. They want their truth heard with the HRC now.