The mining tax

[mottrain]

How do you think that making it more difficult for people to save for their own retirement is going to help with the issue of an aging population and everything that comes with that?

Irrelevent as there a re a number of methods which would be able to be used to support super. Such as salary sacrificing their additional salary pre retirement.

 

[romeoh]

Irrelevent as there a re a number of methods which would be able to be used to support super. Such as salary sacrificing their additional salary pre retirement.

What if one can't afford to salary sacrifice-what else is there?
ps even Twiggy was happy to have a mining tax in some form

 

[Power Raid]

How do you think that making it more difficult for people to save for their own retirement is going to help with the issue of an aging population and everything that comes with that?

that can happen when a sensible mining tax is implemented. it is a shame that the people you refer to will be penalised because of the ego of the man and woman who ballsed the tax. but I imagine that will be on hold for a decade now.

 

[Maggie5]

Irrelevent as there a re a number of methods which would be able to be used to support super. Such as salary sacrificing their additional salary pre retirement.

Sure, I can just see someone on $40K salary sacrificing. Well there are always charities for food.

 

[Maggie5]

that can happen when a sensible mining tax is implemented. it is a shame that the people you refer to will be penalised because of the ego of the man and woman who ballsed the tax. but I imagine that will be on hold for a decade now.

I seriously don't understand you sometimes. We Blame the previous government for the mistakes they may have made so this government can use it as a get out card. Have I got it right?
Err, who is this adult government in charge that told us repeatedly they were ready to govern? No care and no responsibility.

 

[mottrain]

Sure, I can just see someone on $40K salary sacrificing. Well there are always charities for food.

There are a number of benefits in sacrificing.

 

[Maggie5]

There are a number of benefits in sacrificing.

Duh, I know that, I did it my self but if you are married, mortgage and have two kids on $40K, don't see salary sacrifice as an option.

 

[Max zero]

Duh, I know that, I did it my self but if you are married, mortgage and have two kids on $40K, don't see salary sacrifice as an option.

Well if you household income is that low the majority of your 'income' comes from the government anyway. Once you retire you will be on the pension anyway.

A family on 40k isn't saving for their retirement either way.

 

[Power Raid]

I seriously don't understand you sometimes. We Blame the previous government for the mistakes they may have made so this government can use it as a get out card. Have I got it right?
Err, who is this adult government in charge that told us repeatedly they were ready to govern? No care and no responsibility.

because I want a sensible tax system for the mining industry not the shambles that would have bankrupted Australia and not the failed tax that favoured foreign investors?

The reason why I joined labor was to get them was to turn their good ideas into proper policies and implemented properly. If Rudd and Gillard weren't such turkeys and could do it themselves I wouldn't need to bother and if I this govt I would have joined the libs. This current govt should do nothing and say nothing other than unwind our last 7 years. Shame they can't erase the debt though but that's fine as the next generation can pay that off.

 

[Maggie5]

Majority? Ha ha, I am truly touched by you compassion.

 

[Maggie5]

because I want a sensible tax system for the mining industry not the shambles that would have bankrupted Australia and not the failed tax that favoured foreign investors?

The reason why I joined labor was to get them was to turn their good ideas into proper policies and implemented properly. If Rudd and Gillard weren't such turkeys and could do it themselves I wouldn't need to bother and if I this govt I would have joined the libs. This current govt should do nothing and say nothing other than unwind our last 7 years. Shame they can't erase the debt though but that's fine as the next generation can pay that off.

What has all the rambling got to do with what I said?

 

[Xsess]

Yep she built her company from the ground up.
I could have done exactly the same if I were as hard working as Gina.

I don't think you quite get the meaning of "I rest my case"

You dont have a case to rest, just a jealous fixation. The original RSPT was socialism gone stark raving mad, introduced sovereign risk and was a major impediment to further capital investment into the resource sector. In the context of world financial situation and whats happened since, you could argue it was the worst possible policy atthe worst possible time... since then I can think of only one major iron ore project getting financed (ironically Gina's Roy Hill). Gillards design was incompetence personified but for completely different reasons (ie it raised no money but gave truckloads away). Both were abysmal policy failures. At least maybe now with the Marx-inspired mining tax removed we may even be able to attract some foreign investment back again, which would create jobs, tax revenue, investment and prosperity.

 

[medusala]

dupe post from another thread.

Yesterday a bank forecast an iron ore price of $75. At that price its likely only BHP and Rio would make money. Given that everyone else would be losing money and as below get reimbursed under the original RSPT (Twiggy would be one happy camper one assumes) one wonders the likelihood of the "tax" actually costing taxpayers money. The original estimate for revenue collection was absurd because Treasury was too lazy to get the state numbers for royalties and put in extraordinarily optimistic price assumptions for iron ore based on the best terms of trade for 100 years. Imagine Australian taxpayers subsidising cheap Chinese iron ore via Fortescue.

It just showed how deluded and ignorant of the real world Treasury was (ie Henry saying even at 90% rate investment wouldn't be affected) and how deeply out of his depth Swannie was.

One of the worst public policy decisions made by an Australian government in the last 30 years.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-06-03/truth-lies-and-minerals-tax-the-rspt-debate/853264

Technically, it works like this.

• The Government will provide companies with a tax credit for 40 per cent of the project costs or project losses. That, in theory, gives the company a "risk free" investment and, in effect, gives the Government a de facto 40 per cent interest in every resources venture

 

[Grin]

You dont have a case to rest, just a jealous fixation. The original RSPT was socialism gone stark raving mad, introduced sovereign risk and was a major impediment to further capital investment into the resource sector. In the context of world financial situation and whats happened since, you could argue it was the worst possible policy atthe worst possible time... since then I can think of only one major iron ore project getting financed (ironically Gina's Roy Hill). Gillards design was incompetence personified but for completely different reasons (ie it raised no money but gave truckloads away). Both were abysmal policy failures. At least maybe now with the Marx-inspired mining tax removed we may even be able to attract some foreign investment back again, which would create jobs, tax revenue, investment and prosperity.

What a load uf utter s**t.
This post just proves that you can't stop fools being parted from their money.
The multinationals who fund the Liberal party which relies largely on votes from people stupid enough to vote against their own interests, must piss themselves laughing when they read comments like this. Piss themselves all the way to the bank. Pity the rest of us go without tax revenue because of the gullibility of the likes of you.

Also. I hope West Coast do well in the finals.

No wait......

 

[medusala]

. Pity the rest of us go without tax revenue because of the gullibility of the likes of you.

Well if more people actually contributed something rather than just being massive net recipients of cash via government expropriation from their fellow taxpayers then it wouldn't be necessary. Not of course that the mining tax was ever going to raise much money even with iron ore at over $100.

Still if you want to fall for the propaganda knock yourself out.

 

[Grin]

Well if more people actually contributed something rather than just being massive net recipients of cash via government expropriation from their fellow taxpayers then it wouldn't be necessary. Not of course that the mining tax was ever going to raise much money even with iron ore at over $100.

Still if you want to fall for the propaganda knock yourself out.

At least we agree that it was a poorly designed tax that didn't get a satisfactory return for Australia's finite resources.

Isn't it incredible that some fools think we shouldn't get the best return possible for our resources.
Can you imagine people being that stupid?

 

[medusala]

Isn't it incredible that some fools think we shouldn't get the best return possible for our resources.
Can you imagine people being that stupid?

On what basis do you believe that the current combination of company tax and state royalties doesn't achieve this? How can you be certain that a new tax wont decrease investment to the extent that the tax take actually falls?

One could make the same argument re the company tax rate in general. Why is it that the average company tax rate in the OECD has fallen over the last decade?

 

[Grin]

On what basis do you believe that the current combination of company tax and state royalties doesn't achieve this? How can you be certain that a new tax wont decrease investment to the extent that the tax take actually falls?

One could make the same argument re the company tax rate in general. Why is it that the average company tax rate in the OECD has fallen over the last decade?

Nah, your right Meds.
We shouldn't get the best return possible from our resources. Those who buy them from us told us so, and clever people like you believe them.

 

[Power Raid]

dupe post from another thread.

Yesterday a bank forecast an iron ore price of $75. At that price its likely only BHP and Rio would make money. Given that everyone else would be losing money and as below get reimbursed under the original RSPT (Twiggy would be one happy camper one assumes) one wonders the likelihood of the "tax" actually costing taxpayers money. The original estimate for revenue collection was absurd because Treasury was too lazy to get the state numbers for royalties and put in extraordinarily optimistic price assumptions for iron ore based on the best terms of trade for 100 years. Imagine Australian taxpayers subsidising cheap Chinese iron ore via Fortescue.

It just showed how deluded and ignorant of the real world Treasury was (ie Henry saying even at 90% rate investment wouldn't be affected) and how deeply out of his depth Swannie was.

One of the worst public policy decisions made by an Australian government in the last 30 years.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-06-03/truth-lies-and-minerals-tax-the-rspt-debate/853264

Technically, it works like this.

• The Government will provide companies with a tax credit for 40 per cent of the project costs or project losses. That, in theory, gives the company a "risk free" investment and, in effect, gives the Government a de facto 40 per cent interest in every resources venture

yep

China would have simply operated mines at a loss in Oz but a profit overall by managing transfer pricing. Simple worked example: China would operate a mine and lose $1 in Oz, but make $2 OS through marketing etc and then get a $0.40 rebate in Oz for an overall profit of $1.40. The govt would start to go bankrupt and have to raise taxes and print $ lowering our FX. Thus by proxy reducing the cost of production here in Oz.

.....and Rudd would have Rat Fkd us.

 

[Docker Clint]

It's a good thing allowing most of the wealth from our finite resources ending up in the pockets of a few, it means the money will trickle down

 

[little graham]

3 things strengthen the lower and middle classes.

Health Education and savings.

All 3 have received massive hits from an upper class administration voted in as a direct result of support from news ltd and Reinhardts press.

 

[Power Raid]

It's a good thing allowing most of the wealth from our finite resources ending up in the pockets of a few, it means the money will trickle down

Lol

BHP a few?
Rio a few?

Or you mean the very rare exception of twiggy who achieved something amazing and put into production assets that were never meant to fly. Of which nearly went insolvent many times and may still do?

Or do you mean Gina who has yet to start mining for the first time ever? Again, a person who is not likely to produce for 10 years and could go bankrupt trying?

 

[Power Raid]

It's a good thing allowing most of the wealth from our finite resources ending up in the pockets of a few, it means the money will trickle down

Regardless of the comment did you like the version 1 or version 2 tax better? And why?

Is it possible taxing mining is a good thing but the two versions were poorly designed and needed to be scrapped because of that?

 

[Gough]

Perhaps it could have been amended in parliament, and it's flaws corrected rather than done away with completely.

 

[Docker Clint]

Regardless of the comment did you like the version 1 or version 2 tax better? And why?

Is it possible taxing mining is a good thing but the two versions were poorly designed and needed to be scrapped because of that?

True that. The idea was there but when ordinary people want to join in on protests to protect billionaires, it was always doomed to fail.

Any attempt to use the nations wealth for the people will get marketed as scary socialism by those worried about having 19 billion instead of 20.