Game Day The Rot In The Middle

[Johnno22]

Just need to keep drafting and get it right this time. We've had way too many misses over the last 7-8 years in terms of midfielders.

Sheed and Duggan is a good start but realistically we need around 10 players who can all play in the midfield at stages and actually have an impact. Don't know how likely Waterman is to make it but from all reports he's a bull with a nice left peg so the sooner he breaks into the team the better. Cavka is another one that looks promising but is yet to debut.

Everybody is forgeting Nelson. His coach at Geelong Falcons said he was very similar to Boak and every bit as good.

Midfield is his prefered position but has played down back and it is where he has secured a position at WCE but down the track he has the size and the build to crash that midfield.

 

[ROYAL EAGLE]

This .

My two cents worth.

Also Waterman is not as slow as Ploddus , Waterman's acceleration away from a pack is quite good his first ten steps are fine, but then he is already at his max.

If Ploddus could kick well to average he was be twice the footballer he is. Sam Mitchell is not much faster than Ploddus but he can hit targets therefore he is a dangerous player.

Waterman is a good kick and both his short and long kicking game are good.

Waterman has good burst speed over 5 metres after that slows up.

Waterman kicking is very good he can try kicks most kids cant, has good vision.

 

[Johnno22]

Lacking Pendlebury here, also think Griffen would have improved our midfield.

Agreed though, we need to get that top end talent into the midfield.

The midfielders I mentioned are all strong bodied players that can push through a pack or stoppage and come out the other side. Pendlebury and Griffen have more finesse.

We only have one player who does this and efforts are also a waste as he generally butchers the ball at this point.

Have a think and maybe watch a couple of replays and see how many times Masten, Shuey, Wellingham and Gaff are able to achieve this.

For the future Sheed done it twice and Yeo once during Sundays game.Sunday

 

[Here2tellyouwhy]

How?

With balls.

I'd trade anyone of Lecras, Selwood, Masten or Rosa plus our second and third rounders for any A grade mid in the comp under 28. Dangerfield a perfect example.

Pick on the WA kids who aren't in their teams 22. Let the other clubs develop them then offer them some of the best facilities, new stadium, regular game, wings (FFS).

Yeo is another good example. If you can't buy an A grade mid, buy a kid who shows potential.
Rich is yuck. He is small, always injured and adds nothing that we need. Yeo has speed, awearness and size.

Wellingham was a wasted pick. Going for Varcoe was not the answer either.
Blokes who have real upside and aren't fringe premiership players who are up for grabs are what we should be targeting.

Guys like Matt Crouch who can't get a game and has Ellis Yolmen light years ahead of him. When Thompson retires it's his older brother Brad who gets a regluar game not Matt.
There's another McGovern over here too.
Can't see him getting a game or developing much in the SANFL.
Get in their ear, start a relationship with them and their managers.

Maybe take the punt on a fallen star. Chappy, Cooney.
Eliis although injured has been good for us.
Maybe a non AFL but proven big bodied mid. Panos or the like.

Don't die wondering. s**t even Wellingham might still come good.
Next time target a Yeo not a princess and things can turn around quickly.

 

[Dark Sharks]

So it's decided then, Waterman comes in this week.

Oh that's right, we're WCE and we have faith in our talented midfield.

 

[The Dodger]

Big difference between the 2 midfields that I noticed as well as the penetration on the kicking. Not just Hill either. Freo have been pretty clever in asking Fyfe when doing his 50+ metre bomb from a stoppage to head wide to avoid the HBF waiting at the 50 for the incoming.
But the loopiness of all of our kicks compared to the darts they were kicking was very noticeable yesterday.

 

[WereFlyingHigh4]

We should be looking to free agency to get some experience and proven quality in the midfield and let young guys like Sheed, Duggan, Waterman, Nelson etc. develop around them. Look at Melbourne for example, they brought in Cross and Vince into their young midfield and that did wonders for that group with guys like Tyson and Viney being able to develop nicely. I'm not sure who is available this year in free agency but if we could pick up at least one experienced proven A grader then our midfield will very quickly turn around even if the players we recruit are only around for a few more years because we will still have Sheed, Duggan and co. coming through the ranks whilst we watch guys like Priddis, Rosa and Masten be squeezed out. We just have to be bold with the free agency and trade periods as well as the draft.

 

[salo]

geez a week in footy is a long time. in round 2 we made the blues midfield look as bad as ours against freo.

it doesn't do a lot to shed the 'flat track bullies' tag but to me it really highlights a lack of leadership in the midfield group (as much as a lack of talent).

shuey might go gangbusters in another midfield but in our setup i fear he has hit his ceiling. will tear it up a few times a year but too often missing. i really don't see him being tagged too heavily either, just bad instincts when he gets his hands on it with any sort of pressure around him. far from untradeable.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

With balls.

I'd trade anyone of Lecras, Selwood, Masten or Rosa plus our second and third rounders for any A grade mid in the comp under 28. Dangerfield a perfect example.

But would that be enough to get an A-grade midfielder?

Do you think other clubs would be excited about getting Masten and/or Rosa?

LeCras turns 29 this year and Selwood will be a free agent.

Also, Dangerfield is a free agent so we wouldn't actually have to trade to get him. We'd just have to persuade him to come play for us and then pay him 10 million bucks.

Pick on the WA kids who aren't in their teams 22. Let the other clubs develop them then offer them some of the best facilities, new stadium, regular game, wings (FFS).

Yeo is another good example. If you can't buy an A grade mid, buy a kid who shows potential.
Rich is yuck. He is small, always injured and adds nothing that we need. Yeo has speed, awearness and size.

Wellingham was a wasted pick. Going for Varcoe was not the answer either.
Blokes who have real upside and aren't fringe premiership players who are up for grabs are what we should be targeting.

Guys like Matt Crouch who can't get a game and has Ellis Yolmen light years ahead of him. When Thompson retires it's his older brother Brad who gets a regluar game not Matt.
There's another McGovern over here too.
Can't see him getting a game or developing much in the SANFL.
Get in their ear, start a relationship with them and their managers.

Maybe take the punt on a fallen star. Chappy, Cooney.
Eliis although injured has been good for us.
Maybe a non AFL but proven big bodied mid. Panos or the like.

Don't die wondering. s**t even Wellingham might still come good.
Next time target a Yeo not a princess and things can turn around quickly.

Which of these are A-graders?

Would going after someone like Chapman or Cooney really make sense?

I agree that it makes sense to try to pick off WA kids but there aren't that many who are out of contract. And not many are in that A-grade category you mentioned.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

We should be looking to free agency to get some experience and proven quality in the midfield and let young guys like Sheed, Duggan, Waterman, Nelson etc. develop around them. Look at Melbourne for example, they brought in Cross and Vince into their young midfield and that did wonders for that group with guys like Tyson and Viney being able to develop nicely. I'm not sure who is available this year in free agency but if we could pick up at least one experienced proven A grader then our midfield will very quickly turn around even if the players we recruit are only around for a few more years because we will still have Sheed, Duggan and co. coming through the ranks whilst we watch guys like Priddis, Rosa and Masten be squeezed out. We just have to be bold with the free agency and trade periods as well as the draft.

Here's the list.

Let me know which proven A-graders you want. Dangerfield and that's about it?

 

[WereFlyingHigh4]

Here's the list.

Let me know which proven A-graders you want. Dangerfield and that's about it?

Wow not too much quality there. Dangerfield and Douglas would be handy but other than that not much I guess. Trade table may be where to go. If we're smart we can throw some money somewhere, target WA midfielders and if we do things well, our midfield can turn around quickly. Thankfully for us, midfield's are easier to fix than key position stocks which we have providing we don't continuously get struck down with injury.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Trade table may be where to go. If we're smart we can throw some money somewhere, target WA midfielders and if we do things well, our midfield can turn around quickly.

Optimistic.

 

[Smotie]

So it's decided then, Waterman comes in this week.

Oh that's right, we're WCE and we have faith in our talented midfield.

Simpson does. Although thats what he tells the media.

In reality he doesn't and knows the midfield we have is not good enough and needs to be replaced.

Will the club hierarchy allow him?

 

[steve hucka]

Wow not too much quality there. Dangerfield and Douglas would be handy but other than that not much I guess. Trade table may be where to go. If we're smart we can throw some money somewhere, target WA midfielders and if we do things well, our midfield can turn around quickly. Thankfully for us, midfield's are easier to fix than key position stocks which we have providing we don't continuously get struck down with injury.

Need to target player's that will become A graders but are not there yet players that are young with there best footy ahead of them and that can grow with the likes of sheed, Waterman, Cavka, Duggan etc Will Langford for instance 22 years old premiership player future A grader , good size, hard nut, good speed, Yes would still have to pay alot or give up a bit , But would get a good 5 to 8 years out of him, Adam Simpson connection could help us net him and a nice pay cheque of course

 

[The Passenger]

Where is this magic wand that allows us to trade Rosa and a second rounder and pick up an A grade midfielder

 

[Here2tellyouwhy]

But would that be enough to get an A-grade midfielder?

That's just it. Don't know if you don't try. Most trading with-in the AFL is a club fishing a name out there, his manager leaks it to the media and sits by the phone and see who bites. Then the talks start.
Port got Ebert from us on the cheap and he is killing it for them ATM. Probally their best player so far this year.
He left before he even became a decent midfielder and although not A grade he's pretty bloody serviceable.
Left for game time, we were unable to do much. Similar to Brisbane last year. Everyone left and they went into damage control.
Someone like Tom Mitchell would be a target. You know you're wasting your time when a three game kid gets regular games ahead of you. He will go end of year. Whoever goes hardest for him will most likely get him.

Do you think other clubs would be excited about getting Masten and/or Rosa?
LeCras turns 29 this year and Selwood will be a free agent.

It's not about how excited they get, more about getting the best deal they can while being bent over.
Would Sydney take Masten and a second round pick for Mitchell if he was only going to leave anyway?
He could refuse to sign and walk.

Two current top teams have picked up half their list from other teams on the cheap.
Hawthorn have done very well. From Dew to Lake. They have won flags based on trading in old wasted talent.
Port took, Polec, Ebert, Schultz, Monfries, Ryder, Hombsch, White all for bugger all.

In 06 we had Stengelin and Chick. Screwed the Crows and took one of Hawthorns top players.

Also, Dangerfield is a free agent so we wouldn't actually have to trade to get him. We'd just have to persuade him to come play for us and then pay him 10 million bucks.

No trade is even better. If Freo who are right in the mix are enquiring about Rance then I'd bloody hope that WCE wth more salary cap room and half a midfield would be all over Dangerfield.
He's clearly looking for the best deal and dragging Sloane for the ride.
Should be talking to him too. Wanted to be captain, didn't commit to signing with the Crows when asked on TV.

Which of these are A-graders?

If Mitch McGovern is anything like his brother get him at the end of his contract. Start talking to him know.
Same goes with Matt Crouch, shown a bit but there's no room for him.
If they don't turn into A graders they atleast apply pressure to Shuey, Gaff and Masten to step up or GTFO.

Would going after someone like Chapman or Cooney really make sense?

Chapman won several games for a top eight team last year. Same as picking up Chick or Lake. Role players so probally a bit early for us but one will pop up when required.

I agree that it makes sense to try to pick off WA kids but there aren't that many who are out of contract. And not many are in that A-grade category you mentioned.

Yeo wasn't A grade and we got him cheap. Looks A grade in our midfield and may well become A or B+
Polec and Ebert weren't even midfielders when they left for Port. port had a role for them and while being surrounded by A graders they improved their game and became steals.

It seems to me most people on here bitch about us playing the same midfield since 2012.
They will improve as a group and I believed one day we could compete with the best.
I'm still waiting and after what I saw in the first 30 minutes on Sunday. Nope. Just can't see it happening.

By the time Waterman, Duggan, Sheed get 80-100 games into them half the spine would have retired, so trading and going after free agents is the key to us not being the next Richmond and spending the next 20 years mid table.

 

[Sweet Jesus]

That's just it. Don't know if you don't try. Most trading with-in the AFL is a club fishing a name out there, his manager leaks it to the media and sits by the phone and see who bites. Then the talks start.
Port got Ebert from us on the cheap and he is killing it for them ATM. Probally their best player so far this year.
He left before he even became a decent midfielder and although not A grade he's pretty bloody serviceable.
Left for game time, we were unable to do much. Similar to Brisbane last year. Everyone left and they went into damage control.
Someone like Tom Mitchell would be a target. You know you're wasting your time when a three game kid gets regular games ahead of you. He will go end of year. Whoever goes hardest for him will most likely get him.

I thought you were talking about A-grade midfielders? My question is: how do we go about getting one of those?

I think we'd have to put a fair bit more skin in the game than you're suggesting. Masten and Rosa won't move the needle at all.

Two current top teams have picked up half their list from other teams on the cheap.
Hawthorn have done very well. From Dew to Lake. They have won flags based on trading in old wasted talent.
Port took, Polec, Ebert, Schultz, Monfries, Ryder, Hombsch, White all for bugger all.

In 06 we had Stengelin and Chick. Screwed the Crows and took one of Hawthorns top players.

OK, now I'm confused. If you're talking about bringing in players through trades generally, no problem. Of course there is value in doing that.

But, specifically, you said we should trade for an A-grade midfielder. Right? I'm just asking who would qualify and what that deal would look like.

We gave up pick 8 for Chick. And we gave up picks 12 and 28 for Stenglein. They didn't come cheap. We didn't just trade out Chad Morrison or Josh Wooden and get Chick or Stenglein in return. Those guys cost us our first-rounder.

Chapman won several games for a top eight team last year. Same as picking up Chick or Lake. Role players so probally a bit early for us but one will pop up when required.

Yeah but we're not a top-eight team so why would we top up with a guy like Chapman?

Not really comparable to Chick, who came across when he was 26-27 and played 100 games for us. Stenglein was 24 and also played 100 for us.

Yeo wasn't A grade and we got him cheap. Looks A grade in our midfield and may well become A or B+
Polec and Ebert weren't even midfielders when they left for Port. port had a role for them and while being surrounded by A graders they improved their game and became steals.

OK. But I still don't understand who you want us to trade for this year.

You want us to go and get some A-grade midfielders, right? What does that entail?

 

[Sweet Jesus]

Will Langford for instance 22 years old premiership player future A grader , good size, hard nut, good speed, Yes would still have to pay alot or give up a bit , But would get a good 5 to 8 years out of him, Adam Simpson connection could help us net him and a nice pay cheque of course

Signed a new contract last month.

 

[steve hucka]

Signed a new contract last month.

Bugger how long ?

 

[LongoDongo]

Signed a new contract last month.

...why the hell would Langford come to a rabble like us?????. Hes Hawks all day long....just like his Dad. Seriously...leave juggernaut Hawks for our shitshow mediocre comedy act?.
Watched Gaffs interview yesterday on our website.....so confidence inspiring is Gaff....so effeminate!

 

[steve hucka]

...why the hell would Langford come to a rabble like us?????. Hes Hawks all day long....just like his Dad. Seriously...leave juggernaut Hawks for our shitshow mediocre comedy act?.
Watched Gaffs interview yesterday on our website.....so confidence inspiring is Gaff....so effeminate!

Your right i forgot his old boy was Hawk, But money can talk there is heap of player's who have left good clubs for your so called rabble clubs

 

[steve hucka]

...why the hell would Langford come to a rabble like us?????. Hes Hawks all day long....just like his Dad. Seriously...leave juggernaut Hawks for our shitshow mediocre comedy act?.
Watched Gaffs interview yesterday on our website.....so confidence inspiring is Gaff....so effeminate!

But he was always a happy kid

 

[bodazoka]

I rate zaharakis pretty highly, he can be a big game player, And im starting to wonder if Shuey can be

Ahh k yeah I rate him also, I rate Shuey just a little higher as I think he has a bit more on the inside but the gap is certainly not huge and I am not 100% confident on Shuey taking that next step any more :/

 

[Eaglemaniac]

I mentioned this in another thread but I watched the first half of the game last night and Yeo was in the centre bounce three times and cleared it to our advantage twice. Sheed was our best mid the rest of the time, especially in the hard contest. I'd have Yeo, Shuey and Sheed as our starting midfield from now on as much as possible.

 

[Prem87]

I mentioned this in another thread but I watched the first half of the game last night and Yeo was in the centre bounce three times and cleared it to our advantage twice. Sheed was our best mid the rest of the time, especially in the hard contest. I'd have Yeo, Shuey and Sheed as our starting midfield from now on as much as possible.

This.