Mega Thread The Western Bulldogs - The Sack Macca saga

[ErnieSigley]

For the 200th time you make statements with nothing to support them. Who are the comparable very good players Macca had that Clarkson had? I have provided Clarksons, you have stated Macca had them to all I am asking is you to name them to provide any support to your comments

What statement that I made are you even talking about?

 

[lachy]

So what I've been called worse here and moderators have done nothing.

You do bring some of it on yourself, however, I do try to ensure I am addressing your comments and not you the person

 

[ErnieSigley]

You do bring some of it on yourself, however, I do try to ensure I am addressing your comments and not you the person

Not saying it was you

 

[lindsay_bulldogs]

For the 200th time you make statements with nothing to support them. Who are the comparable very good players Macca had that Clarkson had? I have provided Clarksons, you have stated Macca had them to all I am asking is you to name them to provide any support to your comments

He has no arguments to support his statements. Its just the vibe

 

[ErnieSigley]

He has no arguments to support his statements. Its just the vibe

Again to you where is this statement I made?

 

[lachy]

What statement that I made are you even talking about?

Your statement:
No sorry Clarko was there when Buddy, Roughead , etc was recruited just like McCartney was there when we recruited in the past 3 years.
Clarko made finals in the 3rd year and won the premiership in the 4th, McCartney did not make finals in his 3rd and highly doubt will win the premiership in his 4th.
Keep blaming the past even McCartney's past.

In pointing out it was not these players only that allowed Clarkson to win a flag in 4 years but there had been 3 years of top class trading and drafting by the Hawks that I posted the following:
Seriously Ernie this is where your short smart arse superficial opinions with no support make you look like either a fool or a troll. In the 3 years before Clarkson took over as coach including his first year Hawthorn got in the following players:
Luke Hodge
Jordan Lewis
Sam Mitchell
Buddy Franklin
Jarryd Roughhead
Brad Sewll
Trent Croad
Peter Everitt
Campbell Brown
Trent Croad
Michale Osbourne
Clinton Young
Who Exactly did Macca start with from the prior 3 drafts and trade and his first trade that goes even remotely close to this core of key players

Then you went and said that Macca had good quality players when he got there to, would you like me to quote this as well.

I am asking a simple question, including Maccas first draft and the 3 years preceding who did we draft or get into the club that was even close to comparable to who we brought in that provides any justification in your argument that anyone should even expect Macca could be like Clarkson and win a premiership in his 4th year.

 

[lachy]

You like twisting things incorrectly to oppose what I say.
So you want the 3 years before Clarkson to include his first year?
We too had existing very good players easily comparable to pre Clarkson players
Take off Franklin, Lewis, Roughead and Croad (came back in Clarko's first year) your list
Wasn't Bmac allowed to recruit in his first year?

BTW your third line, who were these players as compared to the Hawks players I have listed

 

[TedDougChris]

Be interesting to compare Ports recruiting in the first few years of their rebuild with ours....

 

[threenewpadlocks]

How many wins did Port have in 2011 and where did they come

it's funny you mention that. I see our 2013 as their 2011. Second year of a new coach, an embarrasing loss to by far the worst team in the league Gold Coast/Melbourne, and the only difference between us and them was we had a couple of okayish wins against injury depleted teams at the end of 2013 was the only difference.

Maybe we'd be crap this year with a new coach, like Port 2012, but a better coach would have us talking finals 2015, like Port did 2013.

And yes I get it's a pointless hypothetical because it was looking good at the end of 2013. Better than at the end of 2014 that's for sure.

 

[lachy]

it's funny you mention that. I see our 2013 as their 2011. Second year of a new coach, an embarrasing loss to by far the worst team in the league Gold Coast/Melbourne, and the only difference between us and them was we had a couple of okayish wins against injury depleted teams at the end of 2013 was the only difference.

Maybe we'd be crap this year with a new coach, like Port 2012, but a better coach would have us talking finals 2015, like Port did 2013.

And yes I get it's a pointless hypothetical because it was looking good at the end of 2013. Better than at the end of 2014 that's for sure.

My opinion is their 2012 was our 2014 when they won 5 1/2 games to our 7 and the timing is the same from their 2007 gf and our 2010 prelim. I know we have had to deal with GOld Coast and GWS so it may delay progress by one year but given we picked up Libba and Wallis in one of those years maybe not.

it is why we must see win/loss improvement in 2015, not necessarily finals. Port do not have a standout KPP but they have awesome mids. Ours are probably better and it is the 3rd pre season for Stringer and Macrae with Libba and Wally well into full programs now.

Its not that I hope we win 50% of our games next season, I expect it. Unless there is something fundamentally wrong with our coaching and development or we have a horror injury run no excuses should be accepted. It is only 3 more wins than 2013 and 4 more than this year. Still mediocre but a must for me

 

[ivan rassmussen]

For the 200th time you make statements with nothing to support them. Who are the comparable very good players Macca had that Clarkson had? I have provided Clarksons, you have stated Macca had them to all I am asking is you to name them to provide any support to your comments

Lachy, Lachy, Lachy. You're wasting your time son, it's not worth the effort. You've patiently explained your point of view, and what have you got in return?

 

[lindsay_bulldogs]

Good old Ernie stirring the pot and plenty of bites this time of year.

 

[ErnieSigley]

BTW your third line, who were these players as compared to the Hawks players I have listed

Nice of you to come in half way through the initial statement.
It was always in context to this statement
fronkalicious said:
Hawthorn had just drafted buddy, roughie and Lewis when clarkson arrived. Fair to say he had a head start on McCartney.
Which I said
How is Clarko recruiting players and McCartney recruiting players a head start?

Sorry I don't give stuff about what you wrote.

Nice try but way off

 

[ErnieSigley]

Be interesting to compare Ports recruiting in the first few years of their rebuild with ours....

They sacked/changed a few coaches in the those first few years whereas we have kept the same dud

 

[Norm De Guerre]

Good old Ernie stirring the pot and plenty of bites this time of year.

Like being linked in the media to anybody remotely tall, its a perennial.

 

[ErnieSigley]

Lachy, Lachy, Lachy. You're wasting your time son, it's not worth the effort. You've patiently explained your point of view, and what have you got in return?

Why would it matter to you, I thought you were ignoring me

 

[ErnieSigley]

Like being linked in the media to anybody remotely tall, its a perennial.

Thanks

 

[TedDougChris]

They sacked/changed a few coaches in the those first few years whereas we have kept the same dud

I view this as a process Ernie - you need to get the various pieces and building blocks ready before you can build anything. This is just because of my background, I look at bloody everything like a process.

Some people are obsessing over trying to fill in all the blank or missing pieces in our list in this years draft/trade period - it's just not happening. It all takes time. I think (but without checking) that our recent drafting is actually better than Ports during the early years of their rebuild. Which, if we can get a few more pieces in place - augers well for the future.

Whether Macca is the person to then take us to success (and I know your view on this) - this is another question. But if we want to do this properly (and there are plenty of clubs who haven't), then the approach we are taking is the correct one. Execution of this may again, be another matter.

 

[_Mike_]

No sorry.

You obviously can't comprehend what I wrote,. Save the insults as it won't get you far or any bonus points

 

[TedDougChris]

Save the insults as it won't get you far or any bonus points

If they are really cleverly crafted insults - can these get bonus points ??

 

[_Mike_]

If they are really cleverly crafted insults - can these get bonus points ??

 

[Next Waiting]

My opinion is their 2012 was our 2014 when they won 5 1/2 games to our 7 and the timing is the same from their 2007 gf and our 2010 prelim. I know we have had to deal with GOld Coast and GWS so it may delay progress by one year but given we picked up Libba and Wallis in one of those years maybe not.

it is why we must see win/loss improvement in 2015, not necessarily finals. Port do not have a standout KPP but they have awesome mids. Ours are probably better and it is the 3rd pre season for Stringer and Macrae with Libba and Wally well into full programs now.

Its not that I hope we win 50% of our games next season, I expect it. Unless there is something fundamentally wrong with our coaching and development or we have a horror injury run no excuses should be accepted. It is only 3 more wins than 2013 and 4 more than this year. Still mediocre but a must for me

I think you're out by a year Lachy.
They 2007 GF then 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
We 2010 PF then 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014
I see the win loss as less important at this stage, or rather to this stage. Like you, I'd expect more next year. Where I think the similarities with Port are is in the demographics and the talent in those demographics. Our older players will all be gone bar perhaps Griff and Minson (forgetting for the moment this other stuff) by the begining of 2016. Similarly at beginning of 2013 Port had Cornes and Cassissi but brought in Monfires and Shulz. Their core was high end talent in the 21 to 24 range. Our core will be high end talent in the 20 to 25 year range with perhaps the best of it at 20 - 22 yrs (3rd, 4th and 5th year players, 50 to 100 games plus Libba, Wallis, Roughie etc). We, like Port, will also need to bring in at least 2 quality players (23 - 25yrs) and probably both Key Position. Hopefully Jake Carlisle is talking to his manager now about us as Windy Hill burns. That would be 1 down, 1 to go.

 

[TedDougChris]

Sorry.....

 

[TedDougChris]

I think you're out by a year Lachy.
They 2007 GF then 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
We 2010 PF then 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014
I see the win loss as less important at this stage, or rather to this stage. Like you, I'd expect more next year. Where I think the similarities with Port are is in the demographics and the talent in those demographics. Our older players will all be gone bar perhaps Griff and Minson (forgetting for the moment this other stuff) by the begining of 2016. Similarly at beginning of 2013 Port had Cornes and Cassissi but brought in Monfires and Shulz. Their core was high end talent in the 21 to 24 range. Our core will be high end talent in the 20 to 25 year range with perhaps the best of it at 20 - 22 yrs (3rd, 4th and 5th year players, 50 to 100 games plus Libba, Wallis, Roughie etc). We, like Port, will also need to bring in at least 2 quality players (23 - 25yrs) and probably both Key Position. Hopefully Jake Carlisle is talking to his manager now about us as Windy Hill burns. That would be 1 down, 1 to go.

Agree, and while some won't like hearing it - the era of FA and compromised drafts isn't helping our rebuild duration. However (and this links to an earlier question I raised about drafting comparisons between Port and ourselves) - I think we've drafted better than they did at the same time... Only gut feel though...

 

[Next Waiting]

Agree, and while some won't like hearing it - the era of FA and compromised drafts isn't helping our rebuild duration. However (and this links to an earlier question I raised about drafting comparisons between Port and ourselves) - I think we've drafted better than they did at the same time... Only gut feel though...

Better or just as well I agree. Port traded in the right players for them when they needed them for the start of 2013 and they've added a few more too. This is the part that we must also get absolutely right. It's important that we show enough next year for a quality player or two to see where we can go with list, how they can fit into it and want to be a part of it so we can have them on board for 2016. I agree with most that next year is a very important year but perhaps for a slightly different reason. Flame - moth.