The Wine thread
- Thread starter David Votoupal
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Copeland
ABZ
Wonder if I rang Blue Pyrenees themselves and inquired if it may be legit.
Its not rare its a sham
As I say there is a reason why this "concept" does not exist anywhere else in the world.
In Burgundy say they might declassify fruit from young vines, higher proportion of pressings or sections of where the quality was irregular, but it is always labelled as such. There is never a suggestion that it is the grand vin.
If they don't want to bottle under their name they'll sell in bulk or to a negoce
If by some miracle, someone genuinely couldn't be arsed "labelling" their wine it would be sold under anonymity, you would be forbidden from revealing source. Particularly as labelling costs virtually nothing, machinery is there and a label might cost a cent or two. Capsule a couple more
If you had more than you could sell under bottle you might sell the fruit, but there is no way you sell your wine as a cleanskin, revealing source of origin if its the same thing. You would sell it under label to a major retailer at a discount or anonymously in bulk; maybe even under export.
Sometimes there are storage or temperature issues with a batch and you sell them off too.
What is most likely is as these guys appear to have "permission" to reveal its source is that it is declassified fruit or a batch that was not good enough to make it into the final blend. Or storage condition issues
Which again means it most certainly not the same wine.
Doesn't mean its horrible or not worth having, it might even be rather good (or not) but its unlikely to be same - no matter what anyone says.
Ps sorry, not trying to have a go personally but seeing as the other chap asked think its useful to clarify.
that looks like one of those hideous members wine club scams
What I would say is that regardless of what the real link is between a cleanskin and its supposed origin, that doesn't matter as much as how it tastes.
If you like the taste, think its good value then fill your boots.
But I would never, ever, ever, ever, ever buy something like that without tasting it first.
The other thing you might do if you were feeling mischievous is email the winery and ask if they stand behind the quality of this wine that is being sold under their name but without the label.
I am sure their response will tell you all you need to know, after all its their brand reputation at stake here
Here's the thing, even looking at their website blurb:
This is true, and fair enough.
What doesn't make sense is why they are branding its origin.
So why wouldn't you just label it then?
Maybe its all kosher, but why wouldn't BP label the wine for them? It makes this guys job a lot easier, he could prob sell it for more as he claims and easier.
Everyone wins and is a little better off its labelled and yet...
Costs nothing, takes little time
This is true, and fair enough.
What doesn't make sense is why they are branding its origin.
So why wouldn't you just label it then?
Maybe its all kosher, but why wouldn't BP label the wine for them? It makes this guys job a lot easier, he could prob sell it for more as he claims and easier.
Everyone wins and is a little better off its labelled and yet...
Costs nothing, takes little time
Macca19
Moderator
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- #232
Because labelling can be expensive, despite what you say. If youve got a pallet or two left over, which is common, you've either got to outsource to a company that will label them for you, which is expensive, or youve got to pay staff to hand label the wines for you. Less expensive but still costs wages, is time consuming to get it right etc. We've sold older wines through our mailing list which have been legitimate stock that we've run out of labels for at a slightly discounted price ($2-3 dollars a bottle). Certainly not half, and certainly wouldnt sell our best stock for half price on a cheapo website. Maybe somethings gone wrong when bottling their last batch. Maybe they just need the cash flow and this is a quick way to guarantee they sell all the stock.
You assume I am talking blindly and don't know how little labelling costs, how little time it takes, or how to do it
either way its not helpful to anyone to keep labouring it, but labelling is not a big deal
Sure that makes sense.
The key point you're selling it as what it is.
Cracked open a 1971 Cheval Blanc last night, to blast away the chills.
Surprisingly fresh and energetic, with wild strawberry fleshy mid palate and a focused spine of acidity. Vinous, and unctuous but light on its feet, with dried hard herbal complexities.
Lovely way to spend a monday night
Surprisingly fresh and energetic, with wild strawberry fleshy mid palate and a focused spine of acidity. Vinous, and unctuous but light on its feet, with dried hard herbal complexities.
Lovely way to spend a monday night
Copeland
ABZ
Wow, I've never drunk anything as fancy and probably as expensive as that, but it would be quite interesting to try. Even though I've been in the wine industry since Adam and Eve, I really have no pallet to speak of. I really only like shiraz in reds, preferably at least 6 years old. No idea why but until then they still taste green to me. I had a dozen Wolf Blass Grey labei Cab Sauv even after 10 years they still seemed green to me, still have three left actually which I'll save for some mates who I know will appreciate them more than me.
Cheers anyway
cartel
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Been enjoying getting into Rieslings (under-rated variety) on the hot hot days. Perfect with some chilli prawns. I particularly enjoyed the Jim Barry one. 
Reislings are pretty highly rated, to the point of being overpriced. My favourite variety. They're just not that popular with the younger crowd for some reason, who always seem to prefer SBs and Pino Grigios.
If you like reislings, then it's definitely worth checking out Hunter Valley semillons. IMO one of the most underrated Australian varieties.
If you like reislings, then it's definitely worth checking out Hunter Valley semillons. IMO one of the most underrated Australian varieties.
cartel
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Thanks for the tip. Will check it out. Searching for value wines is an enjoyable past-time!
I'm probably still part of the younger set, and most of my friends drink either NZSB or pinot gris/grigio as you say. I'd generally prefer chardonnay or riesling myself, when I'm drinking white - never drank straight Semillon.
Straight semillon has a pretty wide variety of styles. The traditional Hunter Valley semillon is very reisling-like, and a lot of the Hunter wineries like Tyrrells and Tullochs put a lot of effort into producing high quality, complex flavours.
I have had a few from elsewhere and found them a little bit boring and overly oaky though - I can see why it is usually part of a blend.
I have had a few from elsewhere and found them a little bit boring and overly oaky though - I can see why it is usually part of a blend.
Eh? Plenty of HV semillons are quite aromatic, if they're unoaked. Brokenwood, Capercaillie, Tyrrells Old... could give you a long list.
It's a grape with a fair bit of variety.
I'm familiar with the variety it is not classified as an aromatic grape.
Oak has no bearing on whether it is aromatic or not. Oak & vinification influences what the aromas are
All wines have aromas/perfume that does not make them an aromatic variety per se::
Riesling
Gewurz
Pinot blanc (ish)
Pinot gris
Sauvignon blanc
Hondaribbia
Etc
Myself I think semillon is best used as a
blending material ala white bordeaux or sauternes
It provides richness, and texture but lacks freshness & acidity unless its picked (too) early.
Have you actually drunk a good semillon from Mt Pleasant or Tyrrells? There are plenty of HV semillons that have plenty of aroma and soft acidity, and a great deal of freshness and light complexity. They compare favourably to reislings in character, hence their nickname.
This idea that semillon is little more than a blending grape is one mostly perpetuated by French and American wine snobs, which I thought had mostly died out in Australia.
This idea that semillon is little more than a blending grape is one mostly perpetuated by French and American wine snobs, which I thought had mostly died out in Australia.
No I haven't drunk a "good" one, although I have tasted many that were claimed to be good though aged mcwilliams elizabeth & lovedales
Whereas the idea that it isn't is an oddly agricultural one
That's a frankly ridiculous attitude. You won't find a reputable wine expert in this country that doesn't hold the better HV semillons in high regard.
Macca19
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- #247
Semillon has definitely outgrown the 'just a blending grape' theory in Oz. Theres great Semillon being made all over the country now. Hopefully Malbec will follow suit.
I'd agree with Sanders regarding Semillon and being aromatic. The grape itself isn't naturally aromatic like a Riesling, Gewurz, Pinot Gris/Grigio. You need to work to get the aromas out of it, but when you do, you get some lovely, fresh wines. Guys like Vasse Felix, Brokenwood are the master of that real fresh aromatic style.
I do agree with Caeser though that Semillion does hold plenty of similar characters with Riesling and that if you like drinking Riesling, chances are you'll like drinking Oz Semillon...particularly aged.
We've been blessed with Riesling in the last few years. 11 was a great vintage for those able to make it and 12 will be recognised as one of, if not the best ever.
I'd agree with Sanders regarding Semillon and being aromatic. The grape itself isn't naturally aromatic like a Riesling, Gewurz, Pinot Gris/Grigio. You need to work to get the aromas out of it, but when you do, you get some lovely, fresh wines. Guys like Vasse Felix, Brokenwood are the master of that real fresh aromatic style.
I do agree with Caeser though that Semillion does hold plenty of similar characters with Riesling and that if you like drinking Riesling, chances are you'll like drinking Oz Semillon...particularly aged.
We've been blessed with Riesling in the last few years. 11 was a great vintage for those able to make it and 12 will be recognised as one of, if not the best ever.
Ok lets be serious for a second
The wine world is full of regional curiosities that the locals believe is more interesting than they are. Whether in spain, austria, portugal, italy, france, chile etc. you'd be amazed how many of the locals will try to convince you that french regional sparkling wine is interesting or worse good. If you're ever in St Peray adopt the brace brace position
There is absolutely nothing wrong with hunter semillon as a style if you like that sort of thing, it gets trickier if you proclaim it to have qualities that perhaps it can't support
Its a blending grape of no real distinction that ripens easily and attracts botrytis readily.
When made in a mass production style like in the hunter (its not a single varietal wine in other parts of the world) its a perfectly pleasant mid weight wine. It tends to take on winemaking rather than varietal or terroir type characters i.e. oak, malolactic & aromatic artificial yeast innoculation - it also tends to have quite a phenolic, solid compounds in the wine i.e. dry extract. This leads to waxy, oaky, dairy & lanolin type flavours sometimes with a preserved lemon note.
Some will pick early to keep the acidity (it is a high sugar, low acid variety) prone to flabbiness if overripe. This gives a green fruit character but harsher acidity - partial malo will round it a little, artificial yeasts exaggerate the aroma, and cold stabilisation & temp controlled ferments will keep it clean.
Ultimately its a fairly industrial wine, although some get a little fruit depth & intensity by restricting yields off old vines - soil profiles are still not great though. Tyrells vat 1 is a fair example of this type
As a variety it really has very little to do with riesling other than being white
Riesling has an entirely different fruit vs ph profile, it tends have a lot of fruit flavour & high natural acidity (vs low acid, high sugar flavour profile i.e. semillon is a neutral flavoured grape, unless its quite ripe but even still its mostly vinification that adds flavours). In the mosel they typically stop the ferment in their rieslings to capture an off dry profile to balance the acidity.
Basically riesling is a high acid/fruit flavour grape with delicate perfumes and depending on the soil a real affinity for reflection of minerality. Gruner veltliner has some similarities
Semillon is different proposition as mentioned. it has some character traits of chardonnay physiologically, but does not transport or reflect soil & minerality as well as chardonnay. I might also liken it a bit to trebbiano
Riesling is a high acid, light bodied, naturally fruited, aromatic variety, semillon is low acid, full bodied, high sugar, neutral variety often oaked to add flavour
As I say, there is nothing with liking hunter semillon its a perfectly nice wine its just not a serious or especially complex beast.
Its importance is vastly overstated in australia and nowhere else
Malbec is another pedestrian european variety of no real distinction or note
Ever had a great cahor or cot from the loire? Neither has anyone else
Not sure why oz is so insistent on importing 2nd rate varieties that never reach any real heights in their own countries
You can either mess with green fruit & aromatic yeasts - interventionist winemaking - as a single variety. Per above
Or you can just blend with an aromatic variety like sauvignon where their different profiles complement each other.
There is a reason why the rest of the world adopts the latter approach
I just find that to be an incredibly snobbish and unwarranted attitude that has less to do with the actual quality of the wine and more to do with preconceived eurocentric notions of what wine 'should' be.
