Thoughts on a second tier national competition

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Jul 2, 2010
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With increasing numbers of VFL teams reverting back to seconds, the constant year to year rejigging of the NEAFL, and the painful processes undergone in WA and SA for the seconds arrangements, it seems to me that we lack a viable and stable second tier competition. I know I know duh etc. But theres two other reasons why this should be considered.

1) it enables expansion without the crippling costs of a full fledged AFL side. Look to the Rugby League second tier competitions in NSW and QLD cups (or even the SG Ball competition) where they include areas without national sides. Such an arrangement at the AFL level would see the competition be able to include sides from otherwise non viable areas including the NT, ACT and Tasmania, say alongside the successful model used by the NT Thunder.

Costs would be much less as they'd be running under the same salary cap as say a VFL side is.

2) Its another string to the AFL broadcasting rights bow. Presently the AFL has nothing to offer outside of its current season and nab challenge. No Origin, and almost no international series worth bidding for. At a time the league seeks to increase its rights, something like this could be an option. Its worth noting that broadcasting the second tier NRL competitions is part of their broadcast rights.

3) i know i said two reasons - this is an afterthought -, but a second tier competition is also somewhere where a team could be dropped to if they cant sustain an AFL team financially - such as GWS if it doesnt progress financially in an apropriate time. I am not proposing a promotion/relegation system.

The downside of this is that recently signed state league broadcasts in WA, SA and Vic would become almost meanignless since all are reliant in interest generated by the AFL clubs - its in the SA AFL clubs reserve agreements for instance that they assist with the tv broadcasts in SA.

Im possibly full of it.
 
You talking about a 20+ team comp incorporating 18 reserves teams and another few teams like the NT Thunder?

Not sure that's going to have much TV value. I'm sure Fox would cover the occasional game as a curtain raiser, but it's not really something that's going to have the networks clamouring for position.
 
It has a potential, and I'm sure clubs would love that sort of conditioning for their reserves (including getting them accustomed to interstate games).
 

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You talking about a 20+ team comp incorporating 18 reserves teams and another few teams like the NT Thunder?

Im suggesting a second tier competition that features teams from places where its unlikely to be economical to have a first tier national side.

Not sure that's going to have much TV value. I'm sure Fox would cover the occasional game as a curtain raiser, but it's not really something that's going to have the networks clamouring for position.

Considering things like the Foxtel Cup, and the fact that state league broadcasts are dependent on AFl reserve involvenment, Id say broadcast potential definitely exists. Not to mention the fact that the NRLs NSW Cup is broadcast on Fox, and the Qld Cup is broadcast on FTA.
 
It's always a mistake for people to think that more forms or levels of the AFL will be better in terms of interests and/or revenue.

Arguably, the AFL is the most successful club football comp in Australia precisely because it doesn't dabble in other "levels" to any meaningful degree. The focus of all supporters is funnelled into following their own clubs (preferably at senior level).

For starters, with 9 games of AFL footy on Fri to Sun from late March to late August every year, each game going for 3 hours, I seriously doubt there is space for a 2nd tier to get any meaningful following.
 
I'm a big supporter of bringing the AFL reserves back. Not really what you're talking about from what I gather, but it'd act as a second tier national comp which could also act as a curtain raiser for AFL clubs.
 
Im suggesting a second tier competition that features teams from places where its unlikely to be economical to have a first tier national side.

+ 18 reserves teams?

Or something like the NBA D-League where teams are theoretically independent but essentially reserves teams to NBA clubs? eg. Canberra team that takes GWS reserves players, or Launceston team for Hawthorn reserves?

Considering things like the Foxtel Cup, and the fact that state league broadcasts are dependent on AFl reserve involvenment, Id say broadcast potential definitely exists. Not to mention the fact that the NRLs NSW Cup is broadcast on Fox, and the Qld Cup is broadcast on FTA.

Oh, I reckon such a comp would have a few games broadcast. I just don't think anyone will pay anything for it. TV isn't going to be paying for either of the above 2 comps you mention.
 
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+ 18 reserves teams?

Or something like the NBA D-League where teams are theoretically independent but essentially reserves teams to NBA clubs? eg. Canberra team that takes GWS reserves players, or Launceston team for Hawthorn reserves?

Im suggesting reserves + teams representing areas that will never have a viable AFL side due to economics.

Oh, I reckon such a comp would have a few games broadcast. I just don't think anyone will pay anything for it. TV isn't going to be paying for either of the above 2 comps you mention.[/QUOTE]

TV is paying for both as part of the total NRLs broadcast rights - Foxtel does the NSW Cup, Nine does the Qld Cup.
 
Just thinking about some US sports having 'farm teams', and the players who aren't close to getting a game get 'shipped out', often to another town/city.

Obviously, these involve far bigger lists, but anyway.....

Get rid of 'stand alone' 2nds teams.
Clubs have 2 affiliates...A 'local' one and a 'farm team'.

Clubs can only have so many playing for the local affiliate (4-6?) Only enough to keep enough 'match fit' replacements close by and training with the main group.

The rest of the list gets shipped out to <location> where they form part of the local club in all respects (except for being paid by the main team and having a chance of being called up).


So to give an easy example, Hawthorn has 28 players training with them each week.
22 play for the main team.
6 (including emergencies) play for Box Hill
The other 20(?) play for the Launceston Lightening in the 'national 2nd tier comp'.

Of course, the biggest problems with this would be that the WAFL/SANFL/VFL would have a massive hissy fit over being relegated to 3rd tier, and the AFLPA wouldn't be thrilled about players not knowing where they live from week to week.
 

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Just thinking about some US sports having 'farm teams', and the players who aren't close to getting a game get 'shipped out', often to another town/city.

Obviously, these involve far bigger lists, but anyway.....

Get rid of 'stand alone' 2nds teams.
Clubs have 2 affiliates...A 'local' one and a 'farm team'.

Clubs can only have so many playing for the local affiliate (4-6?) Only enough to keep enough 'match fit' replacements close by and training with the main group.

The rest of the list gets shipped out to <location> where they form part of the local club in all respects (except for being paid by the main team and having a chance of being called up).


So to give an easy example, Hawthorn has 28 players training with them each week.
22 play for the main team.
6 (including emergencies) play for Box Hill
The other 20(?) play for the Launceston Lightening in the 'national 2nd tier comp'.

Of course, the biggest problems with this would be that the WAFL/SANFL/VFL would have a massive hissy fit over being relegated to 3rd tier, and the AFLPA wouldn't be thrilled about players not knowing where they live from week to week.

So your idea, any better than the current deal, better? worse? Any downside of downgrading current 2nd tier, any benefit?
 
Im suggesting reserves + teams representing areas that will never have a viable AFL side due to economics.

Oh, I reckon such a comp would have a few games broadcast. I just don't think anyone will pay anything for it. TV isn't going to be paying for either of the above 2 comps you mention.

TV is paying for both as part of the total NRLs broadcast rights - Foxtel does the NSW Cup, Nine does the Qld Cup.[/QUOTE]
What do you envisage the effect would have on the Sanfl/Wafl/VFL? I can never remember specifics but don't Sanfl/wafl own liscenses of Adelaide/Westcoast/PA/Fremantle? the VFL would crumble I imagine without being a reserves competition.

It would also cost more, especially if you follow a different fixture to the AFL one. plane costs for starters.
 
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TV is paying for both as part of the total NRLs broadcast rights - Foxtel does the NSW Cup, Nine does the Qld Cup.
What do you envisage the effect would have on the Sanfl/Wafl/VFL? I can never remember specifics but don't Sanfl/wafl own liscenses of Adelaide/Westcoast/PA/Fremantle? the VFL would crumble I imagine without being a reserves competition.

It would also cost more, especially if you follow a different fixture to the AFL one. plane costs for starters.[/QUOTE]

The SANFL no longer own AFL licenses. The WAFL still operate the West Coast and Fremantle ones. Yes the VFL would have some issues - maybe. The number of stand alone teams is now increasing as AFL sides separate.
 
So your idea, any better than the current deal, better? worse? Any downside of downgrading current 2nd tier, any benefit?

Just going along with the idea and trying to provide a constructive suggestion on how it could work.

Only real benefits would be that the 'farm teams' would be in locations that wouldn't normally get 'high level' games and that the 2nd tier leagues would have a far reduced impact from AFL 'stand alone' sides that care more about development that winning.
 
A national reserves is the best way forward. That way all clubs players will have the same competition. Instead of some getting vfl some safl etc etc

That'd be an effect of the 'farm team' idea (barring the few players who need to remain local and thus play in local comps, but they could be rotated as required).
 
That'd be an effect of the 'farm team' idea (barring the few players who need to remain local and thus play in local comps, but they could be rotated as required).
Dont really like the idea of farm teams. They need a link to the "main" club. Plus you can play them in the leadup to the maingame therefore getting more bang for the punters buck.
 
Dont really like the idea of farm teams. They need a link to the "main" club. Plus you can play them in the leadup to the maingame therefore getting more bang for the punters buck.

They'd have a plentiful link (most of their players...), and allow the main clubs to build a second support base (GWS could have their farm team in Canberra for example, giving them a chance to see your 'kids/fringe players' every 2nd week).

Having them play a curtain raiser just isn't going to happen, at least, not in the bigger venues because too many games affects the quality of the surface, so places like the MCG where there are multiple games each weekend wouldn't like 'doubling up'. It's a bit of a shame, because it does work to a degree at least ... Richmond has played some at Punt road since it's redevelopment, and plenty of people go there, watch the game, then walk over to the G for the main game (not sure it actually improves the crowd for the main game, as it's mostly the die hards who want to see that anyway), but that's as close as you're likely to get.

Personally, I'm OK with the way things are (I get to see the Richmond 2nds in Melb almost every week if I want), but I'm trying to come up with a way another 'national' comp could work with teams in 'other' locations. Also, if they had a national 2nds, I'd rather have the games not match, so if a team is 'away' their 2nds are at home (and not playing the same day/time), that way you can watch your club live every week.
 
A national reserves is the best way forward. That way all clubs players will have the same competition. Instead of some getting vfl some safl etc etc

I guess there are pros and cons.

In our case, we're trying to get the NEAFL up to the standard of the SANFL/WAFL and that's not a bad goal to have.
 
I guess there are pros and cons.

In our case, we're trying to get the NEAFL up to the standard of the SANFL/WAFL and that's not a bad goal to have.
To be honest they are 2 seperate issues. All clubs should have equal competition in a "reserves/2nd tier" comp.
While i agree the state and northern comps need improvement that should be seperate to an equal 2nd tier
 
telsor wit your notion of a farm league system, the main flaw I'd see is if it's a proper farm league, the players would need to be based at the farm league location. It means that yes you bring in the chance for Cairns, Bendigo, Etc to have a team, but the players would be completely disconnected from the main list.

If you're proposing the players fifo, I'm not sure you'd get the same community engagement and support
 
telsor wit your notion of a farm league system, the main flaw I'd see is if it's a proper farm league, the players would need to be based at the farm league location. It means that yes you bring in the chance for Cairns, Bendigo, Etc to have a team, but the players would be completely disconnected from the main list.

If you're proposing the players fifo, I'm not sure you'd get the same community engagement and support

Yeah, I did point out that problem, particularly how the AFLPA would object, but I can't really see how teams would develop in these places without massive subsidies otherwise.
 

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