Troy Menzel vs Lewis Taylor

[scott_the_man]

which will become the better player?

 

[iBeng]

Flip a coin?

Troy will always have that LARS cloud over his knee. Was also 11th drafted over 28th. For Carltons sake you'd hope he'd be better.

 

[Silvagnis]

Menzel or a small mid/forward who was Brisbane's fourth pick?

Troy plays tall and small. Has great hands and X factor.

 

[timtamWB]

Menzel or a small mid/forward who was Brisbane's fourth pick?

Troy plays tall and small. Has great hands and X factor.

What in the bloody hell does that have to do with absolutely anything?

IF Menzel can get his body right, he's too talented not to become a star of the competition. But Taylor is being underrated, very good player. At the moment you'd have to give it to Taylor on proven performances.

 

[Dom PC]

Taylor has already formed his own reputation as part of the mozzie squad. Taylor is arguably the more skillful as well, kicks equally as well off both feet.

Many had Taylor ranked in their top 15 and only lower due to his height. Wouldn't swap them. But Carlton fans would be saying the same thing

 

[Donakebab]

What in the bloody hell does that have to do with absolutely anything?

IF Menzel can get his body right, he's too talented not to become a star of the competition. But Taylor is being underrated, very good player. At the moment you'd have to give it to Taylor on proven performances.

Carlton: draft position > output.

 

[iBeng]

What in the bloody hell does that have to do with absolutely anything?

IF Menzel can get his body right, he's too talented not to become a star of the competition. But Taylor is being underrated, very good player. At the moment you'd have to give it to Taylor on proven performances.

This is Carlton, they have so many top 5 draft picks that could have been second rounders they get confused.

 

[GrandBlue]

Menzel easily. I was one of Taylor's biggest fans, but he's not as good as Menzel, simple as that.

 

[iBeng]

Just going to pop this in here also:

​

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Menzel stays fit? Tight, but I'll give it to Menzel in terms of who will become the better player, not who is.

Both very talented players though, and Taylor's already showing why he'd have gone very early if he was 10cm taller.

 

[drummond2fevola]

I'd suggest Menzel has the more talent, but this year on exposed form you would have to give it to Taylor IMO.

Long run who knows - probably Menzel if injuries don't curtail his career.

 

[Skippos]

Just going to pop this in here also:

View attachment 69375​

It's worth looking at the TOG differential though. You'd expect a bloke to have a worse record when he's playing 20% less time. If you scale up Menzel's data so his TOG equalled Taylor's it's 11.6 disposals, 4.4 marks, 1.9 goals etc.

For a bloke playing far closer to goal I'd happily take 1.3 goals a game extra and 0.4 marks extra (esp. given it's 1 more mark inside 50 per game) for the sake of 4.3 touches a game extra that Taylor gets.

The TOG differential is so large it's almost pointless to use match averages to rate them against each other.

 

[Silvagnis]

Just going to pop this in here also:

View attachment 69375​

Menzel has been the sub in a few games, yet he has still kicked 22 goals. The matchwinner against WC didn't look like missing.

Pop this in here...





Natural talent like Yarran, but with s**t on the liver. Isn't a unit like Cripps, but he loves to have a crack. Haven't seen him duck his head like other guns who have hardened up.

 

[timtamWB]

Menzel has been the sub in a few games, yet he has still kicked 22 goals. The matchwinner against WC didn't look like missing.

Pop this in here...





Natural talent like Yarran, but with s**t on the liver. Isn't a unit like Cripps, but he loves to have a crack. Haven't seen him duck his head like other guns who have hardened up.

When you're relying on highlights, and another person is relying on stats, it shows that you're clutching at straws.

And don't get me wrong, I rate Menzel. If he stays fit I fully expect him to be a better player, but to know, Taylor has outperformed him, due to a number of different factors, some out of the control of Menzel.

 

[AjsGuns]

Menzel, really, really like the kid.

 

[headache1]

When you're relying on highlights, and another person is relying on stats, it shows that you're clutching at straws.

And don't get me wrong, I rate Menzel. If he stays fit I fully expect him to be a better player, but to know, Taylor has outperformed him, due to a number of different factors, some out of the control of Menzel.

And what do those stats prove exactly? That one plays closer to goal and kicks more goals, while the other plays closer to the middle and gets more possessions?

 

[blues4flag]

When you're relying on highlights, and another person is relying on stats, it shows that you're clutching at straws.

And don't get me wrong, I rate Menzel. If he stays fit I fully expect him to be a better player, but to know, Taylor has outperformed him, due to a number of different factors, some out of the control of Menzel.

Has he? In the 11 games where Menzel's played over 69%, he's averaging 11 disposals and 1.9 goals (from 78% game time). In the 15 games Taylor's played over 69%, he's averaging 16.8 disposals and 0.6 goals (from 86% game time).

6 disposals more a game or 1.3 goals. Indicates the different roles they're playing. Haven't seen enough of Taylor to make a judgement but on stats alone I'm not sure he has outperformed him.

 

[Rainfall]

Menzel no favoritism here despite his big bro being at my side.

 

[ShanDog]

I don't really think it's fair to compare the players. They play different roles. It's like asking who has more potential, Grundy from the Pies or Tom Boyd from GWS? One is a ruckman, one is a fwd. Sure they are both tall, but thats where the similarities realistically end.

 

[Monkey King]

When you're relying on highlights, and another person is relying on stats, it shows that you're clutching at straws.

Not sure why contributing a highlights package becomes "relying" on highlights. And certainly statistics should be tempered with actual football. Two possessions are not always equal for example - one player might gather up the ball up off his ankles and with great vision deftly handball out to a guy in the best position to cause damage; another might receive a handball and dish it straight back in a nothing one-two exchange. As far as numbers on a page go, both look the same, but when it comes to actual football though, they're two entirely different things.

And don't get me wrong, I rate Menzel. If he stays fit I fully expect him to be a better player, but to know, Taylor has outperformed him, due to a number of different factors, some out of the control of Menzel.

In games where Menzel hasn't started as sub or has gone off injured, he's averaged 2 goals a game. That would 40+ goals in a season based on on-the-ground performance. When it comes to stats for a 19yo second year player, that trumps 16 touches a game every day of the week IMO.

 

[iBeng]

In games where Menzel hasn't started as sub or has gone off injured, he's averaged 2 goals a game. That would 40+ goals in a season based on on-the-ground performance. When it comes to stats for a 19yo second year player, that trumps 16 touches a game every day of the week IMO.

Would be more impressive if they were both first year players though.

 

[Monkey King]

Would be more impressive if they were both first year players though.

More impressive? I'd say absolutely outstanding if a first year player was doing that. I think it's impressive enough doing that as a second year player. Not many do. Which is my point; 15.9 touches a game from a first year player is good and all that, but not quite as rare or impressive. Just my opinion.

 

[iBeng]

Impressive? I'd say outstanding if a first year player was doing that. I think it's impressive enough doing that as a second year player. Not many do. Which is my point; 15.9 touches a game from a first year player is good and all that, but not quite as impressive. Just my opinion.

This thread is discussing, of course, who will BECOME the better player. For Carltons sake, using a higher draft pick, you'd hope its Menzel. But Taylor was originally marked to go top 10, and only slid due to his height.

 

[Monkey King]

This thread is discussing, of course, who will BECOME the better player. For Carltons sake, using a higher draft pick, you'd hope its Menzel. But Taylor was originally marked to go top 10, and only slid due to his height.

And yet the thread of discussion that I joined was talking about performance this year and had already disregarded draft position as meaningless.

Not really sure why you chose to chime in and then change the context.

 

[iBeng]

And yet the thread of discussion that I joined was talking about performance this year and had already disregarded draft position as meaningless.

Not really sure why you chose to chime in and then change the context.

Well, currently they would be on par output this year, but which would be best in their careers wont be know until 2020.