Opinion VICBias - Genuine Discussion

[Cut the Carp]

Multiple games in a row at the venue that hosts the Grand Final is unprecedented in world sport, Richmond & Collingwood have enjoyed an advantage that other teams could only dream of, the teams that rack up multiple games at Marvel aren't far behind.

 

[Carringbush2010]

As it turned out many WA footy supporters simply were not very loyal to their footy clubs. Adelaide also. But I suspect if similar happened in Victoria the same result would if happened.

Yeah I doubt that, for example even if the vlf went belly up, the big 4 clubs at least had enough public interest, the league might've went but I doubt those 4 clubs would've just died off into the sunset.

As to your comment, why is it now or since the vfl expansion, that non vic fans are so determined to alter the league at the detriment to some vic clubs, for their new clubs benefit, yet as you claim weren't loyal to their wafl clubs?

If your claim is correct, it's a definite head scratcher.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Yeah I doubt that, for example even if the vlf went belly up, the big 4 clubs at least had enough public interest, the league might've went but I doubt those 4 clubs would've just died off into the sunset.

As to your comment, why is it now or since the vfl expansion, that non vic fans are so determined to alter the league at the detriment to some vic clubs, for their new clubs benefit, yet as you claim weren't loyal to their wafl clubs?

If your claim is correct, it's a definite head scratcher.

The answer to your question is that the WAFL club supporters are old and probably don’t ho much or care.
It’s the new generation that know nothing but the AFL and their AFL club that want to get what’s best for their club. I yhink that’s fair don’t you?
The tradition of the old VFL means nothing to footy supporters under the age of probably 40. It’s like me talking about Din Bradman, the records there but they don’t give a rats about it.

 

[Lunchtime]

Multiple games in a row at the venue that hosts the Grand Final is unprecedented in world sport, Richmond & Collingwood have enjoyed an advantage that other teams could only dream of, the teams that rack up multiple games at Marvel aren't far behind.

So where should MCG tennants (Richmond, Collingwood, Hawthorn and Melbourne) play each other then?

What's an alternative venue?

 

[Lunchtime]

The answer to your question is that the WAFL club supporters are old and probably don’t ho much or care.
It’s the new generation that know nothing but the AFL and their AFL club that want to get what’s best for their club. I yhink that’s fair don’t you?
The tradition of the old VFL means nothing to footy supporters under the age of probably 40. It’s like me talking about Din Bradman, the records there but they don’t give a rats about it.

Go the "Din"....lol

 

[Underarm]

Multiple games in a row at the venue that hosts the Grand Final is unprecedented in world sport, Richmond & Collingwood have enjoyed an advantage that other teams could only dream of, the teams that rack up multiple games at Marvel aren't far behind.

Adelaide have as many Premierships won at the MCG as both Richmond and Collingwood in the last 30 years.

 

[Cut the Carp]

So where should MCG tennants (Richmond, Collingwood, Hawthorn and Melbourne) play each other then?

What's an alternative venue?

That's not the question, it should be whether teams that enjoy playing an "away" game at their home ground so often should have a similar home/away quota that interstate teams do.

 

[Carringbush2010]

The answer to your question is that the WAFL club supporters are old and probably don’t ho much or care.
It’s the new generation that know nothing but the AFL and their AFL club that want to get what’s best for their club. I yhink that’s fair don’t you?
The tradition of the old VFL means nothing to footy supporters under the age of probably 40. It’s like me talking about Din Bradman, the records there but they don’t give a rats about it.

Yet we see toddlers and kids wearing club garb in the stands of clubs over 100 years old, watching it on the tele.

So I think they definitely care about their clubs.

And if the wafl was still the no 1 ticket here, like it used to be, guess what those kids wouldn't be wearing wc or freo garb and watching them on the tele.

They'd be watching Freast, Swans, Sth Freo etc. and would be talking about past history like Stephen Michael (Hope I spelt that right) and Kenny Fong (Hope I got that right too)

 

[Lunchtime]

That's not the question, it should be whether teams that enjoy playing an "away" game at their home ground so often should have a similar home/away quota that interstate teams do.

But again tell me - where do you expect MCG tennants to play when they play each other? It ties in to you what you said earlier about teams playing too many games at the MCG. So again I ask you, when the MCG tennants play each other, where do you expect them to play?

 

[Cut the Carp]

But again tell me - where do you expect MCG tennants to play when they play each other? It ties in to you what you said earlier about teams playing too many games at the MCG. So again I ask you, when the MCG tennants play each other, where do you expect them to play?

You are trying to turn this argument into something completely different, MCG tenant vs MCG tenant games should be regarded as home games for both teams because of the luxury they enjoy in barely leaving their state, if the fixture was even because of the advantage MCG tenants enjoy they would very rarely play a home game against an interstate team. Collingwood plays 14 games at the MCG this year, an advantage unprecedented in world sport.

 

[The Feeder Club]

History has taught us that there are more Buckley's than Browns. That isn't going to change.

History has taught us no such thing. Take the drafts from 2000 onwards, of first round draft picks drafted from a Vic league by one of the nonVic teams. Then take every one of those players that has played 100 games., so had at least an average career. There are significantly more players that have stayed with the nonVic club that drafted them than requested a trade back to Vic. Even if you take bona fide stars that came home like Judd, Danger, Lever or Lynch, that's a handful over 20 years and they're equally matched by Boak, Greene, Shuey, Douglas, Kelly types that stayed their whole careers at the club that drafted them

 

[Freomaniac]

Hi, it is actually the case that Australian Football was invented in Victoria. South Australia and these types of places copied Victoria because they did not have much else going on.

You might have a point mate.

South Australia can be Boring occasionally. With cheap cigarettes, Cheap alcohol like west end Beer and Adelaide Hills cider.

And not to forget a few years back then the Crows and Power fans flooded threads on bay 13. The good old SA poo fight threads.

It came to a point where the Mods actually wanted a seperate bay 13 board just for the Crows and Port fans. Good times. lol

 

[doppleganger]

You don't get it both ways. Home ground advantage and travel are two different things.

WA teams disadvantage is travel.

They're completely equal in terms of home ground advantage - 10 with an advantage, 3 neutral and 10 with a disadvantage.

This aint true.

Freo this year play Melbourne in Alice Springs and Hawks in Tassie. Neither are in Victoria or a home ground.

Freo get their 10 true home advantage games, but only have 8 true away disadvantage games.

 

[Freomaniac]

This aint true.

Freo this year play Melbourne in Alice Springs and Hawks in Tassie. Neither are in Victoria or a home ground.

Freo get their 10 true home advantage games, but only have 8 true away disadvantage games.

How many home games do Collingwood play this season?

Did Collingwood have a home ground advantage vs West coast last weekend in Docklands?

So do Collingwood have a home ground advantage vs the crows In the MCG?

 

[doppleganger]

You are trying to turn this argument into something completely different, MCG tenant vs MCG tenant games should be regarded as home games for both teams because of the luxury they enjoy in barely leaving their state, if the fixture was even because of the advantage MCG tenants enjoy they would very rarely play a home game against an interstate team. Collingwood plays 14 games at the MCG this year, an advantage unprecedented in world sport.

Adelaide play 13 at AO.

You do realise in the NBA the Lakers and Clippers get 43 games at Crypto Arena, all other clubs gets just 41 games at their home venue.

It aint unprecedented at all.

 

[doppleganger]

How many home games do Collingwood play this season?

Collingwood play 14 games at the MCG.

9 of the 14 are home games.
5 of the 14 are away games against other Melbourne based teams.

Did Collingwood have a home ground advantage vs West coast last weekend in Docklands?

West Coast are more familiar with Marvel than Collingwood.

In 2023-24, WC will play 8 games at Marvel, Pies just 6.

Can you be advantaged at a ground that your opponent plays at more than you?

So do Collingwood have a home ground advantage vs the crows In the MCG?

Yes, of our 9 MCG home games, only 4 games where we actually have a true home advantage.

Playing games at the G against Melbourne, Carlton, Essendon, Richmond and Hawthorn aint an advantage.

Adelaide have 11 games with a true home advantage in 2024.

 

[The Speaker]

Literally nothing can or will change for as long as the national competition is the expanded Victorian league.

 

[Freomaniac]

West Coast are more familiar with Marvel than Collingwood.

In 2023-24, WC will play 8 games at Marvel, Pies just 6.

Can you be advantaged at a ground that your opponent plays at more than you?

how the hell does that work out where West coast played 8 games in docklands compared to Collingwoods only 6?

 

[doppleganger]

how the hell does that work out where West coast played 8 games in docklands compared to Collingwoods only 6?

WC Marvel games

23 R1 v North
23 R19 v Carl
23 R21 v Ess
23 R23 v Dogs
24 R3 v Dogs
24 R9 v Pies
24 R15 v Ess
24 R19 v StK

Pies Marvel games

23 R11 v North
23 R17 v Dogs
23 R23 v Lions
24 R9 v Eagles
24 R12 v Dogs
24 R14 v North

Ask again, can you have a ground disadvantage when you are more familiar at the ground than your opponent?

It is WC who are more familiar at Marvel, but no doubt will count that as a true away disadvantage game.

 

[Freomaniac]

WC Marvel games

23 R1 v North
23 R19 v Carl
23 R21 v Ess
23 R23 v Dogs
24 R3 v Dogs
24 R9 v Pies
24 R15 v Ess
24 R19 v StK

Pies Marvel games

23 R11 v North
23 R17 v Dogs
23 R23 v Lions
24 R9 v Eagles
24 R12 v Dogs
24 R14 v North

Ask again, can you have a ground disadvantage when you are more familiar at the ground than your opponent?

It is WC who are more familiar at Marvel, but no doubt will count that as a true away disadvantage game.

so I guess you dont want a grand final in docklands then?

 

[doppleganger]

so I guess you dont want a grand final in docklands then?

Bigger priority is addressing the biased H&A Fixture where teams like WC and Freo get 10 games with a true home ground advantage, but then dont play 10 away games where they face a true away disadvantage.

 

[Freomaniac]

Bigger priority is addressing the biased H&A Fixture where teams like WC and Freo get 10 games with a true home ground advantage, but then dont play 10 away games where they face a true away disadvantage.

lol thats funny. No issues with Fremantle getting 10 home games with a true home ground Advantage. I mean theres only 2 WA clubs in this 18 team comp.

You assumed Collingwood only gets the home ground advantage vs 8 clubs? The non Victorian clubs right? So that eans you want Tassie to come in as the 19h side to make it 9 and another non vic club to get the 20th side to make it 10 non vic sides?

So whats your Issue playing MCG games vs the other Victorian sides such as richmond, hawks and Carlton?

I guess you gonna complain if Geelong have all their home games at Kardinia Park? All 11 of them rather than just 8?


So you want Collingwood to have more true home games right? That means Vic sides like North Melbourne, Saint kilda, Western Bulldogs, Hawthorn , Richmond and Essendon need to be relocated to another state?

Is that what you are suggesting?

 

[Countryfooty1]

That's not the question, it should be whether teams that enjoy playing an "away" game at their home ground so often should have a similar home/away quota that interstate teams do.

The true measure of home ground advantage fairness / unfairness would be the differential of games played at a club's home ground against a club that doesn't also share that ground versus the opposite. Your argument that clubs that lose an away game by playing at neutral venues should have less home games against interstate teams has a few flaws.

1. By having less away games because of the neutral factor, it also means they have less games with a home ground advantage. Yes, they play more games at the venue, but so do their opposition. Any advantage they gain by playing more often at the venue wouldn't occur until they played a team that didn't use that oval as the home ground.

2. If we did as you imply and give non Victorian teams these additional home games, then how do you balance the draw? Each team plays 6 teams twice and 11 once. In order for your scenario to work, you'd have to have all the non Victorian teams playing their double up games against each other with only 1 fellow non Victorian team they don't play twice. You're then creating an extra neutral game for the Victorian clubs by forcing them to play only each other twice. Unless you are suggesting that additional game gets played at a neutral venue. Given the amount of money the AFL will stand to lose from this they'd never go that option for anything more than novelty factor.

3. This then sets a precedent for clubs to demand compensation or draw be altered and causes more problems than it solves. Do Adelaide and Port get less additional home games because of the extra home game gather round affords them? Do Sydney, GWS, Gold Coast and Brisbane get less additional home games because they play an extra home game owing to not sharing a stadium, or do they get more because they play an additional away game. Do Geelong get punished more heavily than other Victorian teams because they are the sole tenant of their home ground and thus play more home games. Do, for example going on the draw this year, Melbourne and Essendon get punished less severely than other Victorian teams because they play an extra away game this year because of gather round.

The advantage Victorian clubs gain is the lack of extra mileage in the legs from travel and the mental and recovery benefits that come from being able to stay in their own bed and having the additional recovery time more often. If you argument was around this I'd admit there is some merit to what you're thinking

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Yet we see toddlers and kids wearing club garb in the stands of clubs over 100 years old, watching it on the tele.

So I think they definitely care about their clubs.

And if the wafl was still the no 1 ticket here, like it used to be, guess what those kids wouldn't be wearing wc or freo garb and watching them on the tele.

They'd be watching Freast, Swans, Sth Freo etc. and would be talking about past history like Stephen Michael (Hope I spelt that right) and Kenny Fong (Hope I got that right too)

Cmon mate, young kids are just mini Fathers or Mums. dad goes for Collingwood so I do as well. If Day says there is no Home Ground advantage on GF day then that must be gospel. Our kids are generally a product of us for the most part.

 

[Papa G]

Every time I come back to this thread it just reminds of this: