2nds WAFL/WAFL Reserves Thread 2015

[RookiePick]

The Eagles obviously see McInnes rather than Lycett as the potential replacement for Sinclair as the 2nd ruckman. Sinclair has been pretty poor for a month but its all but flown under the radar due to Nicnat's super form. Nevertheless he must be running out of chances soon. As for Lycett it's a hell of a drop down the pecking order, he's now effectively the 4th choice ruckman. To think of all the drama that went on last sesaon with his contract.

I disagree entirely.

I think Fraser is being groomed as a replacement for JJK. It's just whether he comes on enough and/or doesn't get jacked off with the successsion plan and how much game time he gets at the level. JJK is 28 in 6-7 weeks, Fraser is 22 in a fortnight. Let's be honest we don't see many KPP play far into their 30's in our clubs history.

I also think we will want to play a proper second ruck for the forseeable future. Ideally Lycett sorts his s**t out but Sinkers is providing serviceable output at present. Sinkers has tailed away a bit in impact the last few weeks, pretty much since Jack came back. Hopefully he clunks a few more soon.

 

[paran]

The Eagles obviously see McInnes rather than Lycett as the potential replacement for Sinclair as the 2nd ruckman. Sinclair has been pretty poor for a month but its all but flown under the radar due to Nicnat's super form. Nevertheless he must be running out of chances soon. As for Lycett it's a hell of a drop down the pecking order, he's now effectively the 4th choice ruckman. To think of all the drama that went on last sesaon with his contract.

I'm guessing it's likely Sinclair hitting a wall wrt fitness/endurance and requiring his work load be managed. It's been a big step up for him this year, so not surprising. Shame that Lycett still hasn't pulled his finger out, but his failing is McInness's gain.

 

[kane249]

Lycett's been battling groin soreness recently from reports, would explain why he missed a few weeks and played a deeper forward role on the weekend.

 

[Chris_6678]

Adamson Injured ( Cut Leg ) during the week .

Cavka has a reoccurence of foot injury .

Is Cavka back to square one with the foot?

 

[new breed]

Is Cavka back to square one with the foot?

Dont know , just heard on Saturday radio that he has a recurrence of a foot injury .
Sounds like he is a heavy trainer so hopefully just needs rest .

 

[eagle eyed]

I disagree entirely.

I think Fraser is being groomed as a replacement for JJK. It's just whether he comes on enough and/or doesn't get jacked off with the successsion plan and how much game time he gets at the level. JJK is 28 in 6-7 weeks, Fraser is 22 in a fortnight. Let's be honest we don't see many KPP play far into their 30's in our clubs history.

I also think we will want to play a proper second ruck for the forseeable future. Ideally Lycett sorts his s**t out but Sinkers is providing serviceable output at present. Sinkers has tailed away a bit in impact the last few weeks, pretty much since Jack came back. Hopefully he clunks a few more soon.

Surely Gov is JJK's replacement, switching with Darling at CHF throughout games.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

I disagree entirely.

I think Fraser is being groomed as a replacement for JJK. It's just whether he comes on enough and/or doesn't get jacked off with the successsion plan and how much game time he gets at the level. JJK is 28 in 6-7 weeks, Fraser is 22 in a fortnight. Let's be honest we don't see many KPP play far into their 30's in our clubs history.

I also think we will want to play a proper second ruck for the forseeable future. Ideally Lycett sorts his s**t out but Sinkers is providing serviceable output at present. Sinkers has tailed away a bit in impact the last few weeks, pretty much since Jack came back. Hopefully he clunks a few more soon.

How the hell is McInnes being groomed to replace Kennedy? The coaching staff and recruiters would be fully aware of his limitations as a footballer and the fact that he'll never be a suitable replacement. Kennedy is a 60+ goal forward, McInnes is a 30+ goal forward at best.

I'd look at Smith this year. He's athletic for his height and if he does slow down as he bulks up he might make a suitable ruck/ forward option. If he keeps his athletic prowess then he'd likely represent a positive value option comparable to the other KPP's in this years draft pool which have limited physical upside and are more ready made.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Lycett's been battling groin soreness recently from reports, would explain why he missed a few weeks and played a deeper forward role on the weekend.

Yeah. The fact he's not rucking when he was dropped because of his competitiveness in the ruck rather than his actual around the ground work is telling. Might end up being a bit of lost year for Lycett and he's not the only one. Tunbridge, Cavka, Mags, Waterman and maybe Lamb.

 

[RookiePick]

How the hell is McInnes being groomed to replace Kennedy? The coaching staff and recruiters would be fully aware of his limitations as a footballer and the fact that he'll never be a suitable replacement. Kennedy is a 60+ goal forward, McInnes is a 30+ goal forward at best.

I'd look at Smith this year. He's athletic for his height and if he does slow down as he bulks up he might make a suitable ruck/ forward option. If he keeps his athletic prowess then he'd likely represent a positive value option comparable to the other KPP's in this years draft pool which have limited physical upside and are more ready made.

I totally said McInnes is as good as Kennedy You realise that we have had 2 multiple 60+ a year full forwards in the clubs history - Suma and JJK. They don't fall out of trees.

If we can get someone better of course that is desirable but what do you suggest they have told Fraser? "You are a spud mate, there's no place for you currently and no prospect of you being any use unless 4-5 blokes in front of you break down." Great motivation!

Surely they are trying to develop him to a role, even if it never eventuates, or do they just leave these lower tier guys to work it out by themselves?

 

[Underdog]

If we're developing a Kennedy replacement, it seems bizarre that he spending so much time in the ruck.

He's not even a remotely prolific goal scorer at WAFL level with 68 goals in 65 games. He's never kicked more than 3 goals in a game and he's only kicked 3 on 6 occasions.

 

[Suma Magic]

WAFL watchers - do you think McInnes could play back up ruck at AFL level?

 

[Eastern Rangers]

I totally said McInnes is as good as Kennedy You realise that we have had 2 multiple 60+ a year full forwards in the clubs history - Suma and JJK. They don't fall out of trees.

If we can get someone better of course that is desirable but what do you suggest they have told Fraser? "You are a spud mate, there's no place for you currently and no prospect of you being any use unless 4-5 blokes in front of you break down." Great motivation!

Surely they are trying to develop him to a role, even if it never eventuates, or do they just leave these lower tier guys to work it out by themselves?

You didn't need to. You don't plan a future around players of the ilk of McInnes, period.

I suspect they've told McInnes what he needs to know to be as successful a footballer as possible, anything more than that would be irresponsible and ultimately unnecessary. McInnes would know his limitations as far as agility and contested marking would go and would be asked to meet particular KPI's and develop particular aspects of his game to compensate. Better endurance helps but that's par for the course today, perhaps rucking, defensive pressure and ground level competitiveness.

McInnes shapes more like an Ashley Hansen than a Quinten Lynch but will probably expected to ruck like Lynch to prolong his career. But since we're on the subject of Suma and JK, they're the quality of forward you need in terms of output to win flags. Although very different players from very different eras of football. Anything else is a stop gap measure.

What you don't do is groom a player to be something they can't be and place absurd expectations on them. McInnes is being groomed as a jack of all trades tall who can play on multiple lines.

 

[RookiePick]

Bookmarking for 2017/2018

Good analogy with Hansen + rucking. Hansen does have 2 x grannie appearances and a flag to JJK's 0 at this point. Role players have their place, even in premiership sides.

I think some exception has been taken to the term "replacement for Kennedy". It's obviously subject to the relative limitations and strengths of the players available and the team structure. I never said it was like for like nor that West Coast were building their forward structure around McInnes. Darling and Gov will be our primary tall avenues to goal as/when Kennedy finishes up and I think first preference is to play them more around half forward which means someone else needs to play tall deep for decent minutes. Looking at our list Fraser looks like the guy who will fit the physical/age/skill profile the best.

I think you are the only one putting absurd expectations on Fraser in this dialogue with your "be as good as Kennedy or GTFO" attitude. The truth is players of Kennedy's calibre are rare and prized. When he departs it will change the way we structure up forward massively. Your solution of getting someone just as good as JJK is ideal but unlikely looking at the history.

I think it's quite clear that it's very much pot-luck when it comes to drafting and developing a 60+ a year FF and trading for one is difficult - Kennedy cost us the best player in the game. It follows that you spend plenty of seasons with "stop gap" solutions in that position. If we can secure a A grade FF through the draft who is physically ready to play the position by the time Kennedy retires I will be stoked. I am sure however that the club is preparing for the possibility that this may not occur. Who knows, they may even use preparing for this possibility to motivate and improve players currently on the list.

An honest trier, who makes a contest, kicks 1-1.5 gpg, can give our rucks a chop out/rotate through CHF and doesn't chew up much salary cap may be a pretty good "stop gap" until we come across another Kennedy level FF. It's important to not forget we have a raft of young quality (dare I say potential A grade) players in other positions who will be demanding due consideration at the contract table over the next few years.

But anyway I digress. McInnes - low ceiling, list clogger - delist.

 

[larrikin]

The only thing Lucas is good for IMO is keeping pressure on the blokes above to play well

He is a winger without great footskills. We saw on the weekend what that was like with Masto passing the ball.

He has about 5 or 6 ahead of him. If he is playing it means the injury gods are trolling us

I might be mis-reading this, but are you saying Masto's footskills on the weekend were poor? I thought they were a standout in a pretty low standard game.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

I might be mis-reading this, but are you saying Masto's footskills on the weekend were poor? I thought they were a standout in a pretty low standard game.

Poorly written - no I meant masto was outstanding with his footskills - which makes a massive difference from the likes of Lucas who might be able to run but struggle with the kicking

Actually for all the criticisms over time of Masto's kicking - he has always been a very very good kick.

His problem has always been decision making. 9 times out of 10 (even when he was being criticised) the ball would hit the target he was aiming for - the only problem was he didn't see the opposition bloke standing in the way who would mark it. So the execution of the kick has always been fine, just poor decision making.

 

[larrikin]

Poorly written - no I meant masto was outstanding with his footskills - which makes a massive difference from the likes of Lucas who might be able to run but struggle with the kicking

Actually for all the criticisms over time of Masto's kicking - he has always been a very very good kick.

His problem has always been decision making. 9 times out of 10 (even when he was being criticised) the ball would hit the target he was aiming for - the only problem was he didn't see the opposition bloke standing in the way who would mark it. So the execution of the kick has always been fine, just poor decision making.

Yeah cool, full agree - particularly about the decision making v skill execution.

I remember reading an article, it might've been last year or the year before, and it rated players on their kicking efficiency based on the difficulty of the kicks they were trying to execute. From memory at the time Masto's difficulty of kicks attempted was by far the highest of our midfield, which makes his raw efficiency score look worse. Some of that is about trying to set up play, and I think some is about the decision making. It seems he still takes the attacking option, but has improves in that general decision-making (which is where Gaff is also good).

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Bookmarking for 2017/2018

Good analogy with Hansen + rucking. Hansen does have 2 x grannie appearances and a flag to JJK's 0 at this point. Role players have their place, even in premiership sides.

I think some exception has been taken to the term "replacement for Kennedy". It's obviously subject to the relative limitations and strengths of the players available and the team structure. I never said it was like for like nor that West Coast were building their forward structure around McInnes. Darling and Gov will be our primary tall avenues to goal as/when Kennedy finishes up and I think first preference is to play them more around half forward which means someone else needs to play tall deep for decent minutes. Looking at our list Fraser looks like the guy who will fit the physical/age/skill profile the best.

I think you are the only one putting absurd expectations on Fraser in this dialogue with your "be as good as Kennedy or GTFO" attitude. The truth is players of Kennedy's calibre are rare and prized. When he departs it will change the way we structure up forward massively. Your solution of getting someone just as good as JJK is ideal but unlikely looking at the history.

I think it's quite clear that it's very much pot-luck when it comes to drafting and developing a 60+ a year FF and trading for one is difficult - Kennedy cost us the best player in the game. It follows that you spend plenty of seasons with "stop gap" solutions in that position. If we can secure a A grade FF through the draft who is physically ready to play the position by the time Kennedy retires I will be stoked. I am sure however that the club is preparing for the possibility that this may not occur. Who knows, they may even use preparing for this possibility to motivate and improve players currently on the list.

An honest trier, who makes a contest, kicks 1-1.5 gpg, can give our rucks a chop out/rotate through CHF and doesn't chew up much salary cap may be a pretty good "stop gap" until we come across another Kennedy level FF. It's important to not forget we have a raft of young quality (dare I say potential A grade) players in other positions who will be demanding due consideration at the contract table over the next few years.

But anyway I digress. McInnes - low ceiling, list clogger - delist.

We've got a high caliber tall, not the same as Kennedy but with some substantial strengths that set him apart.

The only way McInnes comes into the equation is if we take the lesser option and persist with using McGovern in defense in 2016 and beyond. In spite of the return of Mackenzie and Brown and added maturity to a very talented and almost universally praised tall defender in Barrass.

We have no need to play McInnes with the current squad in a post Kennedy environment if we draft and develop suitable KPP options. We don't need to replace Kennedy directly, but ensure we have the talent coming in to shuffle the deck. If we find a KPF as good as Kennedy then we could persist with McGovern in defense if we don't then who cares? in all probabilities we'd have drafted someone capable in defense or a grade better than McInnes.

To be honest i view McInnes as a sub par option because a tall forward because he lacks the contested marking ability of even some of the games lesser tall forwards. So you might suggest Kennedy is hard to replace and that is true, but someone half as good would be better than McInnes.

 

[RookiePick]

I guess I see Fraser as having scope to improve where you have stamped his card. At the moment he's not best 22 and JJK has a couple/few years in him so it's just blue sky discussion

 

[new breed]

WAFL watchers - do you think McInnes could play back up ruck at AFL level?

From early in the season his best role is as a back up KPF , maybe he could play KPD also when in dire need .

I think as a back up ruckman he might get monstered by the bigger and elite ruckman whereas Sinclair has a bit of mongel about him and hits the ball harder.

 

[Suma Magic]

From early in the season his best role is as a back up KPF , maybe he could play KPD also when in dire need .

I think as a back up ruckman he might get monstered by the bigger and elite ruckman whereas Sinclair has a bit of mongel about him and hits the ball harder.

McInnes went really hard at it against Port in preseason when rucking.

Just an interesting proposition, as he fits much better in the forward line with Darling and Kennedy than Sinclair does.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

From early in the season his best role is as a back up KPF , maybe he could play KPD also when in dire need .

I think as a back up ruckman he might get monstered by the bigger and elite ruckman whereas Sinclair has a bit of mongel about him and hits the ball harder.

Sinclair gets monstered by the bigger and elite ruckmen too, really.

 

[new breed]

Wasn't Sinclair an All Australian ruckman in the Amateur league after he missed being drafted and then came to Subiaco because West Coast were showing some interest .

I think Sinkers and Naitanui are both pretty mobile and it seems to be working , unless Lycett picks up his form ( likely ) I think Sinclair is safe except for the reckless free kicks he gives away .

 

[Eastern Rangers]

I guess I see Fraser as having scope to improve where you have stamped his card. At the moment he's not best 22 and JJK has a couple/few years in him so it's just blue sky discussion

There is a physical reality with McInnes though. I'd love for him to start clunking contested marks against notable opponents, but i think his lack of agility and vertical leap are the two things negatively effecting his marking, he loses balance and can't get his body behind the ball in a marking contest because he can't jump high enough to protect the ball (and his arms) and isn't agile enough to wrong foot his opponent often enough.

I don't see those things changing. They're driven by athleticism.

 

[mattyc75]

Mcinnes will remain on the list until there is a better option.Other than ruckmen he is our only KPF back up not currently our best KPd.
When Emac comes back fit and firing McGovern moves to the forward line we wont see Mcinnes again.
Drafting a KPF is essential within 2 years ,hopefully this year as Kennedys replacement is going to need time to develop

 

[eagles rule]

Lol at grooming McInnes to replace JK ..haha