List Mgmt. Welcome to West Coast: Bailey Williams (Pick 35)

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Taking nothing away from the fella.

Has had a great season but now appears to be running on empty - more correctly form fluctuates from week to week. Gas tank probably on ‘low’ and muscles ‘sore and tired’

Shame he couldn’t get a reduced workload at some stage.

I’d argue similarly with Gibney - having to do much in a shizen team over an extended period of time. Could do with a rest too - not sure how, but sentiment remains.


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Wouldn’t be suprised if he falls off towards the back end of the year and don’t really blame him tbh. Has done a mountain of work so far this year and most week alone really. He’s come on in leaps and bounds and has a solid base where he can take into the preseaon and build on.
 

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I'm not sure all the hype on here is justified just yet as he is the about the sixth worst ruckman in the league when it comes to his hitouts going to our advantage. His followup at ground level has been impressive but there's not much connection between him and our mids at the stoppage
 
Alesana said:
I'm not sure all the hype on here is justified just yet as he is the about the sixth worst ruckman in the league when it comes to his hitouts going to our advantage. His followup at ground level has been impressive but there's not much connection between him and our mids at the stoppage
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Still nowhere near as bad as the Darcy/Jackson combo combining for +58 hitouts yesterday and still losing the clearances at least...
 
Alesana said:
I'm not sure all the hype on here is justified just yet as he is the about the sixth worst ruckman in the league when it comes to his hitouts going to our advantage. His followup at ground level has been impressive but there's not much connection between him and our mids at the stoppage
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Our midfield is still garbage tier and routinely gets beaten around the contest by bottom teams, of course hitouts to advantage are going to be low we are always second to the ball and out bodied at stoppage.
 
Alesana said:
I'm not sure all the hype on here is justified just yet as he is the about the sixth worst ruckman in the league when it comes to his hitouts going to our advantage. His followup at ground level has been impressive but there's not much connection between him and our mids at the stoppage
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So you're saying he's improved 5 spots just this year. I like that trajectory.
 
Alesana said:
I'm not sure all the hype on here is justified just yet as he is the about the sixth worst ruckman in the league when it comes to his hitouts going to our advantage. His followup at ground level has been impressive but there's not much connection between him and our mids at the stoppage
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All you mostly need is for your ruck to follow up after the tap and just not stand there like a statue afterwards. That’s why Lycett and Vardy worked well in 2018. They aren’t great tap ruckmen, but played with intensity and tackled well.
 
Alesana said:
I'm not sure all the hype on here is justified just yet as he is the about the sixth worst ruckman in the league when it comes to his hitouts going to our advantage. His followup at ground level has been impressive but there's not much connection between him and our mids at the stoppage
Click to expand...

He is getting there. Just look at his tap to Shuey out of the center bounce v the Saints. His craft will get better and better once he is tapping to a consistent midfield.
 
One thing about Bailey, is that certainly from an outsiders perspective, it seems like he isn't actually enjoying himself.

I get that he's red, he's angry, and he's a different cat..

But not once have i really actually thought, by watching him, that he's "bought in" to the squad or the team. He's like the anti Marsden, anti hype guy. Doesn't get around the boys, doesn't really do interviews or puff pieces with Kate about his time at the club, how he likes it here, his development etc etc. Doesn't celebrate goals, doesn't crack a smile, doesn't appear to have any actual close knit relationships with any players as far as i can see?

The other day he kicked a snag and basically just tried trudging off back to take the ruck. No high fives. No Marsden celebrations with anyone. A few players tried getting around him and he reluctantly acknowledged them, but you could see he wasn't keen.


This is all based purely on watching him, but if there ever was a candidate for a "looking east" "temper your expectations because he's going to play for Tazzy" it's Bailey. I'm not saying there's any actual truth to this, it's just a funny observation.
 
Dark Sharks said:
One thing about Bailey, is that certainly from an outsiders perspective, it seems like he isn't actually enjoying himself.

I get that he's red, he's angry, and he's a different cat..

But not once have i really actually thought, by watching him, that he's "bought in" to the squad or the team. He's like the anti Marsden, anti hype guy. Doesn't get around the boys, doesn't really do interviews or puff pieces with Kate about his time at the club, how he likes it here, his development etc etc. Doesn't celebrate goals, doesn't crack a smile, doesn't appear to have any actual close knit relationships with any players as far as i can see?

The other day he kicked a snag and basically just tried trudging off back to take the ruck. No high fives. No Marsden celebrations with anyone. A few players tried getting around him and he reluctantly acknowledged them, but you could see he wasn't keen.


This is all based purely on watching him, but if there ever was a candidate for a "looking east" "temper your expectations because he's going to play for Tazzy" it's Bailey. I'm not saying there's any actual truth to this, it's just a funny observation.
Click to expand...
Fair call

Wonder if he was different before coming to WC
 

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Dark Sharks said:
One thing about Bailey, is that certainly from an outsiders perspective, it seems like he isn't actually enjoying himself.

I get that he's red, he's angry, and he's a different cat..

But not once have i really actually thought, by watching him, that he's "bought in" to the squad or the team. He's like the anti Marsden, anti hype guy. Doesn't get around the boys, doesn't really do interviews or puff pieces with Kate about his time at the club, how he likes it here, his development etc etc. Doesn't celebrate goals, doesn't crack a smile, doesn't appear to have any actual close knit relationships with any players as far as i can see?

The other day he kicked a snag and basically just tried trudging off back to take the ruck. No high fives. No Marsden celebrations with anyone. A few players tried getting around him and he reluctantly acknowledged them, but you could see he wasn't keen.


This is all based purely on watching him, but if there ever was a candidate for a "looking east" "temper your expectations because he's going to play for Tazzy" it's Bailey. I'm not saying there's any actual truth to this, it's just a funny observation.
Click to expand...
To be fair the bloke is the sole ruck most games at 23, it’s a ridiculous load for a ruck that young. I imagine he’s probably spent half the time
 
Honestly watching Carlton's great white hope Tom De Koning have no impact out there tonight I thought I'd compare him and Bailey Williams and, well, you know, I'm a stats guy.

De Koning (24) is almost a year older than Williams (23) and was often touted as Carlton's next elite ruckman. He's obviously struggled this year and been in and out of the team. But that led me to the overall AFL ruck statistics.

Bailey Williams, despite our poor year, is sitting sixth on the overall hitouts (502) this season and ninth for overall hitouts-to-advantage (120).
These as mere statistics are impressive but what makes them more impressive is when you consider the ages of the players also in the top echelon of rucks this year.

Starting from the top we have Reilly O'Brien (27, with his birthday in three weeks) who is first for total hitouts and hitouts-to-advantage.
Then we have Jarrod Witts (30 years of age) for both total hitouts and hitouts-to-advantage.
Next is Oscar McInerney (29 years of age) who is third for total hitouts and fourth for hitouts-to-advantage.
The anticipated All-Australian ruck Tim English is over two-and-a-half years older than Williams and leads him by 47 hitouts and 72 hitouts-to-advantage.
It's worth noting that the average age of the top 15 ruckmen this year is almost exactly 28 years, with Williams being the second youngest and Ned Reeves being the third youngest, being 18 months older than Williams.
The only player in the top 25 players for total hitouts younger than Williams is Luke Jackson (22 in September) and he trails Williams by 242 total hitouts and 44 hitouts-to-advantage.
What's more of the top 25 rucks this year Williams sits fourth for total clearances with 77, trailing only McInerney (100), Marshall (90) and Blicavs (78).
He sits equal 19th in the competition for score launches which, let's be honest, is actually pretty good considering how little we have actually scored this year.

There's a long way to go for Williams but I'm not sure what other ruck under 25 years of age you would definitely say was performing better than Williams and, outside of maybe Jackson, none project as good as Williams.

If you look at the rucks under 25 years of age who have had over 100 hitouts this year you have the following players:
1. Bailey Williams - 17/04/2000, 502 hitouts, 120 hitouts-to-advantage and 77 clearances;
2. Ned Reeves - 31/10/1998, 460 hitouts, 146 hitouts-to-advantage and 40 clearances;
3. Sam Draper - 28/09/1998, 267 hitouts, 80 hitouts-to-advantage and 42 clearances;
4. Luke Jackson - 29/09/2001, 260 hitouts, 76 hitouts-to-advantage and 37 clearances;
5. Kieren Briggs - 06/10/1999, 235 hitouts, 80 hitouts-to-advantage and 53 clearances;
6. Tom De Koning - 16/07/1999, 219 hitouts, 71 hitouts-to-advantage and 39 clearances;
7. Samson Ryan - 09/12/2000, 171 hitouts, 65 hitouts-to-advantage and 16 clearances;
8. Hayden McLean - 20/01/1999, 159 hitouts, 34 hitouts-to-advantage and 14 clearances;
9. Ben Miller - 31/08/1999, 110 hitouts, 33 hitouts-to-advantage and 10 clearances; and
10. Tristan Xerri - 15/03/1999, 109 hitouts, 23 hitouts-to-advantage and 13 clearances.

With all of the above in mind I actually think that Bailey Williams deserves more credit than he's got, and I know that there has been a general acknowledgement in these parts about his improvement this year, and some of his improvement is based on opportunity and circumstance, but I think it's more than that. Just quietly, we might have the best young ruck in the competition. The statistics certainly point to that being at least arguable. Or maybe I'm just typing dribble. You decide.
 
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eaglespremiers said:
Honestly watching Carlton's great white hope Tom De Koning have no impact out there tonight I thought I'd compare him and Bailey Williams and, well, you know, I'm a stats guy.

De Koning (24) is almost a year older than Williams (23) and was often touted as Carlton's next elite ruckman. He's obviously struggled this year and been in and out of the team. But that led me to the overall AFL ruck statistics.

Bailey Williams, despite our poor year, is sitting sixth on the overall hitouts (502) this season and ninth for overall hitouts-to-advantage (120).
These as mere statistics are impressive but what makes them more impressive is when you consider the ages of the players also in the top echelon of rucks this year.

Starting from the top we have Reilly O'Brien (27, with his birthday in three weeks) who is first for total hitouts and hitouts-to-advantage.
Then we have Jarrod Witts (30 years of age) for both total hitouts and hitouts-to-advantage.
Next is Oscar McInerney (29 years of age) who is third for total hitouts and fourth for hitouts-to-advantage.
The anticipated All-Australian ruck Tim English is over two-and-a-half years older than Williams and leads him by 47 hitouts and 72 hitouts-to-advantage.
It's worth noting that the average age of the top 15 ruckmen this year is almost exactly 28 years, with Williams being the second youngest and Ned Reeves being the third youngest, being 18 months older than Williams.
The only player in the top 25 players for total hitouts younger than Williams is Luke Jackson (22 in September) and he trails Williams by 242 total hitouts and 44 hitouts-to-advantage.
What's more of the top 25 rucks this year Williams sits fourth for total clearances with 77, trailing only McInerney (100), Marshall (90) and Blicavs (78).
He sits equal 19th in the competition for score launches which, let's be honest, is actually pretty good considering how little we have actually scored this year.

There's a long way to go for Williams but I'm not sure what other ruck under 25 years of age you would definitely say was performing better than Williams and, outside of maybe Jackson, none project as good as Williams.

If you look at the rucks under 25 years of age who have had over 100 hitouts this year you have the following players:
1. Bailey Williams - 17/04/2000, 502 hitouts, 120 hitouts-to-advantage and 77 clearances;
2. Ned Reeves - 31/10/1998, 460 hitouts, 146 hitouts-to-advantage and 40 clearances;
3. Sam Draper - 28/09/1998, 267 hitouts, 80 hitouts-to-advantage and 42 clearances;
4. Luke Jackson - 29/09/2001, 260 hitouts, 76 hitouts-to-advantage and 37 clearances;
5. Kieren Briggs - 06/10/1999, 235 hitouts, 80 hitouts-to-advantage and 53 clearances;
6. Tom De Koning - 16/07/1999, 219 hitouts, 71 hitouts-to-advantage and 39 clearances;
7. Samson Ryan - 09/12/2000, 171 hitouts, 65 hitouts-to-advantage and 16 clearances;
8. Hayden McLean - 20/01/1999, 159 hitouts, 34 hitouts-to-advantage and 14 clearances;
9. Ben Miller - 31/08/1999, 110 hitouts, 33 hitouts-to-advantage and 10 clearances; and
10. Tristan Xerri - 15/03/1999, 109 hitouts, 23 hitouts-to-advantage and 13 clearances.

With all of the above in mind I actually think that Bailey Williams deserves more credit than he's got, and I know that there has been a general acknowledgement in these parts about his improvement this year, and some of his improvement is based on opportunity and circumstance, but I think it's more than that. Just quietly, we might have the best young ruck in the competition. The statistics certainly point to that being at least arguable. Or maybe I'm just typing dribble. You decide.
Click to expand...
Not knocking him or anything but averages would probably be more informative.
 
WCErevival said:
Not knocking him or anything but averages would probably be more informative.
Click to expand...
Fair enough.
Bailey Williams averages 19.5 HOs, 6.67 HOs to advantage, 10.3 disposals, 1.9 marks and 2.9 clearances over 18 games.
Luke Jackson averages 11.2 HOs, 4.22 HOs to advantage, 13.2 disposals, 3 marks and 1.9 clearances over 18 games.
Ned Reeves averages 26.9 HOs, 8.59 HOs to advantage, 7.9 disposals, 1.4 marks and 2.3 clearances over 17 games.
Sam Draper averages 22.4 HOs, 6.15 HOs to advantage, 10 disposals, 1.7 marks and 3.6 clearances over 13 games.
Kieran Briggs averages 20.5 HOs, 8.89 HOs to advantage, 11.7 disposals, 2.3 marks and 4.7 clearances over 9 games.
Tom De Koning averages 16.4 HOs, 5.92 HOs to advantage, 10.2 disposals, 2.7 marks and 2.6 clearances over 12 games.
Samson Ryan averages 11.5 HOs, 4.64 HOs to advantage, 6.6 disposals, 2.7 marks and 1.1 clearances over 14 games.
Hayden McLean averages 6.2 HOs, 2.13 HOs to advantage, 9.6 disposals, 3.6 marks and 0.8 clearances over 16 games.
Ben Miller averages 6.5 HOs, 2.75 HOs to advantage, 7.8 disposals, 2.5 marks and 0.8 clearances over 12 games.
Tristan Xerri averages 15.7 HOs, 5.75 HOs to advantage, 8.9 disposals, 1.9 marks and 1.8 clearances over 4 games.
Make of these stats what you will. Also these stats are from the AFL website. Footywire stats vary wildly, for instance, Williams averages 27.9 HOs, 13.2 disposals, 1.8 marks and 4.2 clearances. so go figure.
 
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I'd rather know hitout win % than total hitouts. Total hitouts doesn't give much context. Having 500 hitouts is great, but are his opponents beating him more often than not?
 
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