Opinion What unpopular AFL opinions do you have? - Part 2

[Proffessor]

I strongly disagree with the bolded part. There were Essendon players who chose not to participate so clearly there were some warning signs. I can forgive a first or second year player who would have felt pressured to participate to show commitment, earn their place, etc. but not the captain of the team. On the contrary I think he let his teammates down massively, he should have been a leader in making sure everything was above board, instead he set an example of let’s just go with what the club says, and as a result many players careers suffered.

In regards to Lynch, If you take a premiership away there are 21 innocent players who did not take a banned substance who suffer. When said player was permitted to play by the league and had not used the banned substance for some time before those premierships then I don’t think that would be fair. Can you take a premiership medal off one specific player? I don’t think so. It’s all or none IMO.

Taking the Brownlow away from Jobe only affects Jobe. The reality is he was using a banned substance at the time he won that award. Is it rough to take it away? maybe. Is it fair to the rest of the competition to let him keep it? Absolutely not.

Put this as plain and simple as possible. If you get suspended for an action in a season you are ineligible to win the Brownlow. Jobe was suspended for an action in the 2012 season, therefore he is ineligible for the 2012 Brownlow Medal.

As for the no advantage claim, we will never know if he gained any advantage at all, but it would certainly be a big coincidence if he had his career best year in a season where he was using a banned substance designed to enhance performance.

I think it was one solitary Essendon player, not players, David 'I'm scared of needles' Zaharakis. He may have been smarter that the rest or just genuinely hated needles.

So, players are more deserving of punishment if they are older? He was still a young man of 27, and a bit of a late bloomer because they didn't work out his best position until late in his career. He possibly felt even more pressure than most to toe the line and do what was being asked of him as captain. Not to mention trust some key people he'd known most of his young life.

Always easier to scape goat individuals, doesn't make it the right thing to do.

No big co-incidence, he just so happened to be in the prime of his career, which was unfortunately then derailed after the drug scandal.

Any way you're welcome to your opinion and I'm welcome to mine.

 

[Underarm]

Why report something you have been repeatedly assured was kosher?

About the only reliable evidence against Watson was his own self-testimony in media interviews, so his words could be held against him, but apparently, he should still get an extra penalty for not self-incriminating enough. You can't have it both ways.

Taking your bank robbery analogy, it's more like a taxi driver taking some client to and from the shops only to discover later they robbed a bank whilst he was waiting for them, then getting jailed for the same time as the robber, and four years later having his taxi driver of the year award revoked just to add a bit more salt into his wounds.

When players take a drug test, they are required to report any substance (legal or Illegal) that they are taking/injecting.

The only reason to omit it from this form is because you are trying to hide it. Ignorance is not a defence.

Nope, not a random taxi driver, he was the getaway driver. And getaway drivers dont get let off just because they dont know every detail of what was robbed.

 

[RichLeMonde]

I think you have misinterpreted my position in a few ways.

Firstly, I don’t think the Essendon player suspensions were particularly 'fair', I think two years suspension for trusting professional medical staff was an overly severe punishment. I did however believe that there had to be a significant suspension for the players, for reasons previously stated, but 2 years was definitely overkill.

I also don't believe that it was a given that the players definitely gained an advantage. BTW not all banned substances deliver advantages and there are multiple reasons a substance might be banned. Essendon were running an experimental program using their players as test subjects, and looking for something they hoped might provide some small advantage, using what they thought were non-banned substances that might aid them. Essentially acting like low grade chemical cowboys trying to find something above protein powders, vitamin supplements, etc. but stopping short of clearly banned anabolic steroids. Turned out that WADA had done a better job of writing their anti-drug codes than they thought.

However, there is a strong chance that many, some or even all of the Essendon players didn't gain any significant advantage. Some might have even been physically disadvantaged by what they were given.

I don't think you could prove that Jobe gained an unfair advantage, particularly in terms of his playing conduct. Did the supplements make him more respectful of other players and officials, more likely to follow the rules during play?

As I keep saying, the Brownlow is a glorified playing conduct award, it is not the overall aim of the AFL team competition, which is to win games and premierships. It's funny that you use the team versus individual angle to absolve the lack of retribution associated with a successful team involving a long-term serious PED user but are somehow happy to also use it to make a scapegoat out of a bloke who is generally agreed to have been little more than a victim of a dodgy club program. The reality is the individual award in a team competition supports the argument that he should keep the medal.

Besides all the above, his punishment was the severe suspension, and that should have been the end of it. Punishment singular, not punishments plural.

You keep saying they trusted medical advice, which is a reasonable thing for a player to do. But that is not what happened. Doc Reid wanted to shut the program down. There are text messages between Hird and Corcoran describing how they have to go behind Reid's back and get him out of the loop. The players were taken off site, away from Reid, to an anti-ageing clinic for the injections, without Reid's knowledge. That is a very different scenario to a trusted club doctor saying to a player, take this son, it's fine.

 

[Bjo187]

You keep saying they trusted medical advice, which is a reasonable thing for a player to do. But that is not what happened. Doc Reid wanted to shut the program down. There are text messages between Hird and Corcoran describing how they have to go behind Reid's back and get him out of the loop. The players were taken off site, away from Reid, to an anti-ageing clinic for the injections, without Reid's knowledge. That is a very different scenario to a trusted club doctor saying to a player, take this son, it's fine.

There are also text messages from hird to dank stating 'make sure all substances are compliant to asada regulations'.

Lots of clubs and sports were riding the line with sports science in those days. Dank thought he found a loophole where he could experiment with substances not yet classified and therefore not yet on the banned list. There is a good documentary on Netflix untold stories about the American version of Steven dank, he was doing things really similar with a bunch of athletes like Barry bonds, Marion Jones etc

 

[Proffessor]

You keep saying they trusted medical advice, which is a reasonable thing for a player to do. But that is not what happened. Doc Reid wanted to shut the program down. There are text messages between Hird and Corcoran describing how they have to go behind Reid's back and get him out of the loop. The players were taken off site, away from Reid, to an anti-ageing clinic for the injections, without Reid's knowledge. That is a very different scenario to a trusted club doctor saying to a player, take this son, it's fine.

There are many problems with Dr Reid's conduct, whilst he may have expressed reservations to his superiors in the club hierarchy. Clearly, he did not take direct action using his position as the club's head doctor to shut the program down, nor does it appear that the players were informed of his concerns, allowing Dank and Co. to proceed with the administering of injections with implicit approval.

In my opinion, the relative absolution of Reid's conduct by the club, media pundits, etc. is extremely difficult to explain. If anyone deserved more punishment than they received, it was him. He did not fulfil his duty to the players under his care.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Being AA is no greater accolade than being part of the 22 under 22, as they are both effectively fan voted.

In fact, I’d probably go further and say that the 22 under 22 is even more prestigious as the voting is open to everyone, and you have to pick the entire team, not just players from your own club, so the whole gamut of supporter bases selecting the side means the players are making it into the side on merit, unlike the AA where if one panel member puts forward a case for a player they like(who may play for their old side) they can convince others to get it across the line.

 

[Pistol Night]

Being AA is no greater accolade than being part of the 22 under 22, as they are both effectively fan voted.

In fact, I’d probably go further and say that the 22 under 22 is even more prestigious as the voting is open to everyone, and you have to pick the entire team, not just players from your own club, so the whole gamut of supporter bases means the players are making it into the side, unlike the AA where if one panel member puts forward a case for a player they like(who may play for their old side) they can convince others to get it across the line.

And a lot of specialist forwards and backs get reamed every year by mids getting named on flanks and wings

 

[peetoo]

And a lot of specialist forwards and backs get reamed every year by mids getting named on flanks and wings

All rounders too, who should at least have one interchange spot

 

[Caligo]

And a lot of specialist forwards and backs get reamed every year by mids getting named on flanks and wings

I feel sorry for anyone who is an elite winger trying to make the AA team (although 2023 was a strange year in that two genuine wingers were actually selected at wing)

 

[Lockyer24]

I’d rate being an All Australian above being a Brownlow medalist.

 

[Caligo]

I’d rate being an All Australian above being a Brownlow medalist.

Really? I can think of All Australians who wouldn't be in the top 50 players in the league. Even the very worst brownlow medallists were surely at least top 20 players.

 

[Bjo187]

Not sure if this is unpopular or not, but just watching replays on fox footy, the glory days of AFL footy were from 93 to 98. Channel 7 even had effects mic's to pick up crowd noise back then, great commentators, good level of toughness, a lot of characters in the game, high scoring, fast end to end, interstate teams came on the scene with a bang and even the footy shorts were better back then (the style not tightness).

 

[Woolly Mammoth]

Not sure if this is unpopular or not, but just watching replays on fox footy, the glory days of AFL footy were from 93 to 98. Channel 7 even had effects mic's to pick up crowd noise back then, great commentators, good level of toughness, a lot of characters in the game, high scoring, fast end to end, interstate teams came on the scene with a bang and even the footy shorts were better back then (the style not tightness).

*93 to 99

 

[BigPond101]

Not sure if this is unpopular or not, but just watching replays on fox footy, the glory days of AFL footy were from 93 to 98. Channel 7 even had effects mic's to pick up crowd noise back then, great commentators, good level of toughness, a lot of characters in the game, high scoring, fast end to end, interstate teams came on the scene with a bang and even the footy shorts were better back then (the style not tightness).

92 should be included Matera on 1 wing Mainwairing the other, Sumich full forward and Jackovich CHB that is a recipe for excitement

 

[Cuzz09]

so basically the 90s lol

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Blackhawk42]

I’d rate being an All Australian above being a Brownlow medalist.

May I ask why?

One recognises you as the single best player in the competition.

The other is selected on a positional basis by a panel of judges with different opinions and you're only 1 in 22.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Not sure if this is unpopular or not, but just watching replays on fox footy, the glory days of AFL footy were from 93 to 98. Channel 7 even had effects mic's to pick up crowd noise back then, great commentators, good level of toughness, a lot of characters in the game, high scoring, fast end to end, interstate teams came on the scene with a bang and even the footy shorts were better back then (the style not tightness).

That isn't unpopular at all.
I'm nostalgic for that time frame too having been born in 1990.

However, go back and watch any game from that period and some of the defensive efforts and skill errors are pretty horrid. It's a fun revisit, however it's not all roses.

 

[Pistol Night]

I’d rate being an All Australian above being a Brownlow medalist.

I wouldn’t but having said that the players all seem to value the players association MVP the highest

 

[GoldbergsGold]

I’d rate being an All Australian above being a Brownlow medalist.

The Brownlow has the lowest merit/value because it's voted by people who have never played or coached.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

Not sure if this is unpopular or not, but just watching replays on fox footy, the glory days of AFL footy were from 93 to 98. Channel 7 even had effects mic's to pick up crowd noise back then, great commentators, good level of toughness, a lot of characters in the game, high scoring, fast end to end, interstate teams came on the scene with a bang and even the footy shorts were better back then (the style not tightness).

Channel 9 had the best broadcast production, especially capturing the field thuds of the ball and the superior camera angles.

 

[GoldbergsGold]

international rules but with full tackling is the best version of football

It's great, better than Soccer, I wish it'd return.

 

[Bjo187]

Channel 9 had the best broadcast production, especially capturing the field thuds of the ball and the superior camera angles.

Even 10 were innovative. 7 are so safe and boring, everything on 7 is watered down.

 

[Soggy2112]

That isn't unpopular at all.
I'm nostalgic for that time frame too having been born in 1990.

However, go back and watch any game from that period and some of the defensive efforts and skill errors are pretty horrid. It's a fun revisit, however it's not all roses.

People will always look upon previous eras with fondness for two reasons:

1. Generally the sport we engage with as kids is what we’re most nostalgic about.
2. When we see replays of games from that era it’s usually the classics. We then compare it to a shitty 2023 North v Hawks game we watched and compare the two.

Overall I think the style of footy in the 90s might have been better, but the players now are far more skilled and are much better athletes than that era. Unfortunately that style of game just wouldn’t work now BECAUSE of the athleticism of today’s players.

For the record this isn’t a knock on those players. If they had todays players methods, resources, pay etc. they would be just as good.

 

[RUNVS]

Being AA is no greater accolade than being part of the 22 under 22, as they are both effectively fan voted.

In fact, I’d probably go further and say that the 22 under 22 is even more prestigious as the voting is open to everyone, and you have to pick the entire team, not just players from your own club, so the whole gamut of supporter bases selecting the side means the players are making it into the side on merit, unlike the AA where if one panel member puts forward a case for a player they like(who may play for their old side) they can convince others to get it across the line.

Not sure I agree as it all comes down to how many games the average fan watches. For instance the average Victorian probably does not want that many games involving the Western Australian and South Australian clubs, so as a result they would be less likely to pick a player from those clubs.

 

[ghostbat12]

I’d rate being an All Australian above being a Brownlow medalist.

All Australian is a popularity contest.