Why have Hawthorn played in so few drawn games?

[mianfei]

One statistic that I have known for twenty-five years and resultant question that has interested me for quite some time is this:

• Why have Hawthorn played only nine drawn games in its 85 years in the VFL?
• In the same period since 1925, every other established V/AFL club has played at least thirteen drawn games, with Essendon having played twenty-five and Footscray twenty-two.

It is particularly striking that the paucity of drawn games is continuous throughout all four distinct periods of Hawthorn's history as a V/AFL club viz:

1. 1925 to 1953 (three draws in 522 games)
2. 1954 to 1968 (three draws in about 260 games, one in the last year of the period)
3. 1969 to 1992 (only one draw, which I recall listening to on the radio)
4. since 1993 (only two draws, both with Footscray)
5. Hawthorn are one of only four AFL clubs to have no draws during the 2000s, with the others being Collingwood and interstate clubs Fremantle and Adelaide.

Although for a time I have thought the paucity of drawn games in Hawthorn's history might be coincidence, with age I have come to think there must be some underlying cause.

I wonder if you can come up with a suggestion?!

 

[BABYBOMBERS2007]

Essendon played 25 draws, wow :O

 

[Cheeseman]

It's all or nothing at Hawthorn, being the most successful club of the last 50 years suggests it's not a bad way to approach things.

Hope that helped.

 

[Brishawk]

I think if you really want to know you would need to look at our performance in close matches, how many we played and whether we won or lost and compare that to other clubs.

Of course it could be a statistical anomaly . . .

 

[mianfei]

It's all or nothing at Hawthorn, being the most successful club of the last 50 years suggests it's not a bad way to approach things.

Hope that helped.

Very interesting idea to a puzzling question. I have though a possible answer to the paucity of drawn games in Hawthorn's history is the tendency towards a team orientation that - whether paradoxically or not - tends to produce a less defensive game than a more individualistic orientation found in clubs further to the west. In Hawthorn's early years as a VFL chopping block, the culture that inhibited success was very much non-individualistic as well as non-competitive - so perhaps this explanation fits because the paucity of drawn games has been a constant throughout Hawthorn's entire V/AFL history and not confined to the period since 1954 when the club first began its rise to success.

The problem with this theory is that in the years of its rise to power during the 1950s, Hawthorn was a distinctly low-scoring side even by the standards of the day. In fact, in its first finals year of 1957, Hawthorn scored fewer points than bottom team Geelong and only Footscray and St. Kilda scored fewer points than Hawthorn who were third of twelve teams. (With the rise of Peck, Hawthorn's relative attacking record did improve even as the club's win ratio fell during the late 1950s)

 

[HolyWars]

Dunno, its strange though! I am glad of that stat because nothing sucks more balls then a drawn game and especially when it involves your club.

 

[Neville Bartos]

Dunno, its strange though! I am glad of that stat because nothing sucks more balls then a drawn game and especially when it involves your club.

I would have HAPPILY taken a draw over letting the hand-baggers steal that game from us last year. It would have been a f***ing delight compared to losing by a goddamn behind after the siren.

 

[IBleedBrownNGold]

Dunno, its strange though! I am glad of that stat because nothing sucks more balls then a drawn game and especially when it involves your club.

I agree HolyWars... I remember seeing us in a few close ones during the late 90's, early 00's and it is the most painful experience at the footy. One game in particular against the Doggies at Optus Oval (as it was then)... had to stand all day, as it was to capacity... only to draw the match. I don't think I've ever been so heartbroken walking out of a match. And I've hated and cursed that ground ever since!

 

[Ram-Man]

I remember one against the kangaroos when john kennedy was their coach - remember the krakour boys putting on some sort of show.

Another against the Bulldogs - 1993 or 1994 - Pritchard running into open goal it dribbling off his boot and hitting the post for a behind.

9 from 85 years - probably because early days we were thrashed and then 70's-early 90's we were the thrashees - then in late nineties we were thrashed again.

Expect that tally to rise - the comp has been geared towards even lists and competitive games of footy.

 

[Mervyn Beasley]

In Hawthorns first 30 odd years they didnt even come near other teams scores let alone equal it or go past it!!

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I think the principle cause would be when the siren went, there was always a difference in the scores

In other words .... total coincidence.

 

[mianfei]

Expect that tally to rise - the comp has been geared towards even lists and competitive games of footy.

Ram-Man,

one cannot assume that a more competitive competition will mean more close matches. If one looks at 1983, for instance: it was the most competitive VFL season for some time, yet only one match in 102 before the qualifying final was decided by less than a kick. Or look at the WAFL in roughly the same era: whilst it was known for its high level of competitiveness, there were no draws in almost nine hundred games between 1974 and 1984! (a far longer non-occurrence of draws than ever known in V/AFL football)

It is an interesting question whether clubs with similar histories to Hawthorn's (or as nearly so as possible) have generally played very few drawn games. A parallel to Hawthorn, though, is not that easy to find either within or outside the V/AFL. The closest V/AFL club in history to Hawthorn would be Melbourne, though their historical periods are not nearly so well-defined as Hawthorn's. It is true, too that Melbourne, with thirteen draws, have the second-fewest of any club since 1925.

However, if one compares Hawthorn in its pre-1954 period with St. Kilda, who were between 1941 and 1953 equally weak, we see that St. Kilda, though flogged in most matches as easily as Hawthorn, still played five drawn games as against Hawthorn's one during these thirteen years. So Hawthorn's lack of competitiveness during its first twenty-nine VFL seasons can hardly be an answer. Whether the ability of Hawthorn to hand out huge thrashings during its glory years of the 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s is part of the answer is harder to test, but even if it is a contributing factor it can only be a very small part as I have said.