Football Report: Craig Cameron 28/6/2010

[Toadvine]

Following the mid-year break, I thought it timely to again provide the Club’s members and supporters with a football department update.
The second quarter of this season saw significant improvement in a number of areas. This has been highlighted in several key statistical indicators, as well as the fact that we have won three of our past four games.
It is clear that the playing group is becoming more comfortable with Damien Hardwick’s game plan and team rules, and they are executing this much more efficiently.

more can be found here

http://www.richmondfc.com.au/tabid/6301/default.aspx?newsid=97067

Good to here we have no plans of trading our first few draft selections.

 

[Bazzar]

Good read. This stood out to me for the future-

"we’re well on track to achieving our stated goal of a cumulative 500 games from our players, aged 22 or under, in the 2010-11 seasons."

I know the downbeat posters will say they could/will be burnt out, but the club clearly have a rest/rotation policy and cautious injury management policy to counter that.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

It was a very good read.

A-Graders: Cousins

Potential A-Graders: Deledio, Riewoldt, Martin, Cotchin

We need more, thats our problem.

 

[tugga]

No trading of early draft picks unless a miracle happens. That's all I wanted to hear.

 

[Roachy8]

“Renaissance Man”, Shane Tuck

Love it!

 

[nut]

With so many young, inexperienced players in the line-up, we have to expect some form fluctuation during the second half of this season.

This would be what the pro-tankers would like to hear.....

Followed up with .....

Last week, the football department held a two-day mid-season review and forum. The whole department reviewed its performance and the direction we have chosen to take. We then discussed, and dissected, the changes that have occurred in AFL football over the past five years, and the potential new trends in the game. This included statistical analysis, impact of potential rule changes on coaching, recruiting and strength and conditioning, as well as off-field development issues.

I think we will see some more honourable losses....

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

I loved the part where he said Andy Collins has as much leader ship potential as Trent Cotchin and that the two of them will play in our next 4 flags

 

[_RT_]

Love that we're holding onto the early picks, only trading I'd be doing with early picks is if Ablett said he wanted to come to Richmond(which isn't going to happen). Still hoping that they go out and try and win as many games as possible between now and round 21 against the Saints. If we're 4-17 entering that game with the spoon in our keeping then by all means play the game and make a few interesting selections and get the best possible reward out of the season.

 

[Barnzy]

If we're 4-17 entering that game with the spoon in our keeping then by all means play the game and make a few interesting selections and get the best possible reward out of the season.

I love it how you think you can have it both ways, RT. Argue against the pro-tankers and how you're totally against it then say something like that. So hypocritical.

Also, good to hear we're keeping our early picks.

 

[UpTheGuts]

Very encouraging. I know that other clubs have for some time believed that unless you have 1500+ games of experience on the park then you're just not really in the match.

Go Tiges.

I dream of Sam Day...

 

[nut]

If we beat Sydney we are off the bottom.

With a WC likely loss against Coll. It will be interesting to see how we play. With both the results of the Adelaide game and WC matches completed before we run out.

If we win against the swans it will be hard to finish bottom with a straight face.

 

[Bazzar]

Also, good to hear we're keeping our early picks.

Who said we are keeping our early picks? Cammeron said - "Barring something extraordinary cropping up, we will be maintaining our early draft selections."

He was having two bob each way by the sounds of it. He didnt lock it in 100% They will keep them, But if...

 

[UpTheGuts]

Who said we are keeping our early picks? Cammeron said - "Barring something extraordinary cropping up, we will be maintaining our early draft selections."

He was having two bob each way by the sounds of it. He didnt lock it in 100% They will keep them, But if...

Pick 6 for Travis Boak?

 

[Bazzar]

Pick 6 for Travis Boak?

Tough one. He is the perfect age and fit for our group. You could almost go that in a compromised draft, but i doubt Port would.

 

[UpTheGuts]

Tough one. He is the perfect age and fit for our group. You could almost go that in a compromised draft, but i doubt Port would.

He shapes as going to GC otherwise. I guess he would be worth at least 1 first round pick in compo anyway - possibly 2 given his age and likely salary from them.

I think Dons are keen, too

 

[Bazzar]

He shapes as going to GC otherwise. I guess he would be worth at least 1 first round pick in compo anyway - possibly 2 given his age and likely salary from them.

I think Dons are keen, too

I would rather keep our first pick, but if we did trade it i wouldnt want the player involved to be over 21/22. But my initial response was more to the way Cameron worded keeping all our picks "Barring something extraordinary cropping up" which to me means its not a 100% lock in. So anything is still possible.

 

[_RT_]

I love it how you think you can have it both ways, RT. Argue against the pro-tankers and how you're totally against it then say something like that. So hypocritical.

Also, good to hear we're keeping our early picks.

There is a difference Barnzy, I want the kids to keep trying to win for the next 8 weeks as it continues on the development of both the players and a winning culture. If they aren't good enough to win more than 1 game during the next 8 weeks then losing the final game of the year isn't going to make much difference as its only 1 game.

On the other hand, you and the other pro tankers want us to go out and ensure we lose over the next 9 weeks to make sure that we get picks 4, 27 & 29. How does ensuring we lose help the development of the players? How does it teach the players what to do in a tight game to make sure they win?

Do you finally see the difference between our 2 views?

 

[Barnzy]

There is a difference Barnzy, I want the kids to keep trying to win for the next 8 weeks as it continues on the development of both the players and a winning culture. If they aren't good enough to win more than 1 game during the next 8 weeks then losing the final game of the year isn't going to make much difference as its only 1 game.

That's tanking to the get the best possible picks. Something you've been arguing is wrong for ages against the pro-tankers. Now it's suddenly okay in round 22. You just want to have your cake and eat it too.

How does ensuring we lose help the development of the players? How does it teach the players what to do in a tight game to make sure they win?

Maybe you should ask yourself that now that you're advocating losing on purpose in round 22 if we have 4 wins or less to get the P.P. Welcome to the pro-tanker side. You can't have it both ways, you either want to win every game possible for the development of our players or you're happy with tanking to ensure we get the best picks possible for our rebuild in a compromised draft period. Doesn't matter which round it is, that's just a cop-out.

 

[_RT_]

That's tanking to the get the best possible picks. Something you've been arguing is wrong for ages against the pro-tankers. Now it's suddenly okay in round 22. You just want to have your cake and eat it too.

Its not about wanting to have my cake and eat it too, its about wanting to continue on the message that Hardwick has spent the first 8 months of his tenure preaching to the players and that is about developing winning behaviours/culture.

Maybe you should ask yourself that now that you're advocating losing on purpose in round 22 if we have 4 wins or less to get the P.P. Welcome to the pro-tanker side. You can't have it both ways, you either want to win every game possible for the development of our players or you're happy with tanking to ensure we get the best picks possible for our rebuild in a compromised draft period. Doesn't matter which round it is, that's just a cop-out.

I noticed you didn't answer the questions just simply put it back to me. I wonder why that is. Perhaps you don't like the answers you would give. As I said the difference between me and you is I want to see the kids at least trying to win over the next 2 months, you want them to lose, on purpose no less.

Imagine we win this Sunday against the Swans(not impossible) and then find ourselves 5 goals up against one of the Roos, Freo, Pies, Crows, Dees Blues or Saints heading into the last quarter, would you be happy to see the kids lose in that situation just to keep the PP or would you like to see them go on and win the game and build on the belief they have got over the last month?

 

[santa claws]

Its not about wanting to have my cake and eat it too, its about wanting to continue on the message that Hardwick has spent the first 8 months of his tenure preaching to the players and that is about developing winning behaviours/culture.


I noticed you didn't answer the questions just simply put it back to me. I wonder why that is. Perhaps you don't like the answers you would give. As I said the difference between me and you is I want to see the kids at least trying to win over the next 2 months, you want them to lose, on purpose no less.

Imagine we win this Sunday against the Swans(not impossible) and then find ourselves 5 goals up against one of the Roos, Freo, Pies, Crows, Dees Blues or Saints heading into the last quarter, would you be happy to see the kids lose in that situation just to keep the PP or would you like to see them go on and win the game and build on the belief they have got over the last month?

lol tanking or not all players not just the kids will be trying to win.
players dont tank the footy dept are the ones who go down that path.
tanking is playing the kids tanking is resting tired senior players tanking is experimenting. tanking is playing around with structure to see who can play where.in such early stage of team development with so many ordinary players still on the list i would have thought these things were a priority anyway. i keep on saying it you dont have to win to develop players or team structures . these things with such a raw list does not have to happen in one yr.

 

[_RT_]

lol tanking or not all players not just the kids will be trying to win.
players dont tank the footy dept are the ones who go down that path.
tanking is playing the kids tanking is resting tired senior players tanking is experimenting. tanking is playing around with structure to see who can play where.in such early stage of team development with so many ordinary players still on the list i would have thought these things were a priority anyway. i keep on saying it you dont have to win to develop players or team structures . these things with such a raw list does not have to happen in one yr.

So after spending the last 13 weeks of the season, developing structures based around a gameplan that Hardwick wants to establish so that we can win our next premiership and we throw it all out the window in the last 9 weeks of the season because a second round PP is on offer. Sorry I just don't see the logic in doing that. Hardwick said in his first few speeches to the masses that there will be no shortcuts taken, to me that includes tanking for picks.

Isn't an important part of development a young list also teaching a young list how to win when in a situation where they can win. While some of the ordinary players that are still on the list but won't be around when we're challenging for the flag won't get the benefit of learning how to win, the ones we'll be counting on will.

As I asked Barnzy earlier, say we win this Sunday and then find ourselves 5 goals up at 3/4 time in one of the next 7 weeks, would you prefer to see the side go on and win the game or would you prefer to see Hardwick experiment with the side and end up losing the game by a goal or 2?

 

[santa claws]

As I asked Barnzy earlier, say we win this Sunday and then find ourselves 5 goals up at 3/4 time in one of the next 7 weeks, would you prefer to see the side go on and win the game or would you prefer to see Hardwick experiment with the side and end up losing the game by a goal or 2?

as i have already said on this topic if we win playing kids and experimenting so be it.
i would rather it did not happen because i dont rate the list, like so many here do after a couple of shallow wins.

if we are say 3 and 15 at the end of rnd 18 i would fully expect the que to go in the rack. i see no reason why we should be different in this regard to other teams who will probably have the que in the rack well before then.
we have stkilda carlton melbborne and port as the last 4 games its likely we would lose two of those games anyway.
if we are 4 and 14 we would have to make sure we experiment in two games.

as for game plan and structures pertaining to game plan please tell me exactly what is the game plan. and what are the structures.
surely you want as many players as posssible capable of implementing different structures or systems within what ever game plan we have.
how would say resting dustin martin in rnd 19 for thomson affect what hardwick has been working at.. same player type same structure same game plan just a different player.dont all players have to work within the same structures and plan.

 

[_RT_]

as i have already said on this topic if we win playing kids and experimenting so be it.
i would rather it did not happen because i dont rate the list, like so many here do after a couple of shallow wins.

if we are say 3 and 15 at the end of rnd 18 i would fully expect the que to go in the rack. i see no reason why we should be different in this regard to other teams who will probably have the que in the rack well before then.
we have stkilda carlton melbborne and port as the last 4 games its likely we would lose two of those games anyway.
if we are 4 and 14 we would have to make sure we experiment in two games.

as for game plan and structures pertaining to game plan please tell me exactly what is the game plan. and what are the structures.
surely you want as many players as posssible capable of implementing different structures or systems within what ever game plan we have.
how would say resting dustin martin in rnd 19 for thomson affect what hardwick has been working at.. same player type same structure same game plan just a different player.dont all players have to work within the same structures and plan.

Sounds like you're 50/50, on one hand you wouldn't mind the kids winning as long as we're experimenting, but on the other hand you would also prefer that we get the pick. Be careful you'll be labelled a hypocrite.

As we've mentioned before we'll just have to continue to agree to disagree, and see how the season unfolds, at least that way it will give us something to discuss over a long hot summer.

 

[dothebowdenshuffle]

as for game plan and structures pertaining to game plan please tell me exactly what is the game plan. and what are the structures.

We seem to spend an inordinate amount of time referring to our "game plan". I am yet to read any posts that actually outline what our game plan is - just reference the fact that we apparently have one, based on Hardwick or Cameron's assurance. I think a few weeks ago a journo asked Hardwick at an after-match conference what the game plan was and he replied "for me to know and you to find out". If anyone has the finer details I'd appreciate a link to it.

 

[nut]

game plan can be confused with how we play the game. Under tw we were not so interested in protecting the ball carrier with blocks and sheppards, he was more interested in players providing options to run off. Now we are more focused on tackling and protecting the ball carrier. We are harder at the ball instead of holding back waiting for the ball or turnovers. At the moment i think we are more interested in the fundamentals of how we play, developing the tools required to implement a game plan. I heard dh mention that we haven't even learnt how to ice the clock yet. Next year will be the same and we will get better once the players learn the basics first.