Mega Thread AFL to investigate Essendon for controversial fitness program - PART3

[Plugger35]

Uppercut, that is just playing semantics. Certain individuals can indoctrinate a whole club.

For instance they could have initially been focussing on one character and their involvement with organised crime and then realised that the team were being injected with illegal/potentially illegal substances (that's what ASADA will focus on)

That's true, a dodgy individual(s) can still co-ordinate team based doping.

The ACC would likely only focus on a few individual ringleaders rather than the whole team.

Essendon are still the most likely club in the firing line imo, followed by Manly.

 

[fishardansin]

I felt the same way about the media when they were all sinking the boots into St Kilda over the Kim Duthie stuff, when that turned out to be mostly bullshit I wanted St Kilda to hit back by suing journos and kicking heads but to my disappointment they just let it slide. I guess the distraction and cost of taking legal action against the media probably isn't worth it for an AFL club, not to mention the fact that the media will just go even harder at your club if you did try and sue them.

I expect Essendon will do the same as St Kilda if they are cleared of any wrongdoing and just wear it and move on, it still sucks though that the mud thrown by the guttersnakes in the media sticks while they're allowed to get away with it scot free. Clubs are really in a no win situation when they're hit by a scandal.

I wish everyone would sue though. Free speech is great but only if there is some responsibility shown and people don't dress up innuendo and rumor as fact.

 

[scout]

- Vitamin C and B are nowhere near serious enough to go to ASADA.
- Mark McVeigh's explanation is ridiculous. Vitamin C is not injected into the stomach and secondly it is only normally injected into people who are severly deficient in Vitamin C. The injection itself is quite painful and it causes the muscles to hurt for hours, possibly days. Try training and recovering with that muscle pain. To think that a team of AFL footballers was severly lacking in Vitamin C is absolutely ridiculous and quite frankly an insult to everybody's intelligence.
- Also players wouldn't request any consent forms if all they were getting were Vitamin B and C shots.

Exactly, the vitamin C defence is ludicrous & obviously bogus. Don't understand why so many are applauding him.

Do they all have scurvy down at Essendon & are in need of a painful shot? Surely Vitamin C can be obtained though a healthy diet, which you'd expect was a top priority for professional athletes. Are they unable to buy fruit & vegetables?

 

[Off The Couch]

It never ceases to amaze me how passionate posters are in supporting their club and don't get why posters have a go at them - for the hawks I'm always impressed when chewy goes to war so hats off to lance and co for their ongoing efforts since the storm broke.

I don't know what the outcome is going to be, personally I don't believe the bombers are the club at p17 and am not going to speculate (other than to myself) who it may be other than to say I'm muttering the same mantra as Pryor but in saying that I still don't agree or understand the waiver/consent, the confidentiality agreements and a press conference with nothing of substance so I'm sure there is more to come.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Exactly, the vitamin C defence is ludicrous & obviously bogus. Don't understand why so many are applauding him.

Do they all have scurvy down at Essendon & are in need of a painful shot? Surely Vitamin C can be obtained though a healthy diet, which you'd expect was a top priority for professional athletes. Are they unable to buy fruit & vegetables?

Or at the very least could've taken a tablet.

 

[TDavo23]

Because your player's bodies weren't used to the rapid muscle growth and so the tendons had immense strain on them causing the soft tissue injuries. The peptides also have an anabolic effect, that's what it also CLEARLY states in the ACC report. So while they were used to assist in the soft tissue injury recovery, at the same time, their bodies had already been subjected to immense strain from rapid growth and brutal pre season training.

If anything, the peptides got them back on the track sooner than what they would've been had they not taken them.

Zaha and Goodes are two different people, meaning their bodies both have different recovery rates. Not to mention they had a different severity to their quad injury. There's also the small chance that Zaha refused to be injected with anything.

That's not how these things work. If he was on any kind of growth factor releasing peptide (i.e. the illegal kinds of peptides) there is absolutely no way that he would have a longer recovery period than someone that wasn't regardless of their prior medical history.

As for the bolded part; well then he's off the hook then isn't he?

 

[PoidaCat]

Or at the very least could've taken a tablet.

Strong knowledge of how the body works lol.

 

[fishardansin]

LOL at LanceUppercut and his Bomber buddies circulating this thread trying helplessly to defend his club.

Must the facts be stated again?

- Dean Robinson contacted Stephen Dank to join him on his quest to bulk up the Bomber players.
- Dank is a director of MRC, which has a website that sells banned substances.
- Another director of MRC is linked to John Ibrahim and the Comanchero Motorcycle Club.
- Players were taken off site for stomach injections.
- GHRP-6 is commonly injected where the stomach fat is located.
- GHRP-6 is a substance used for muscle growth and the Bomber players got noticably bigger in a short amount of time.
- An unnatural, rapid muscle growth is what leads to stress on tendons, leading to soft tissue injuries.
- EFC had the worst case of soft tissue injuries in the history of the AFL by far.
- The ACC report CLEARLY states that an instance of team based doping, orchestrated by some club officials and coaching staff has been IDENTIFIED.
- The report goes on to say, that aside from the peptide's anabolic effects, is HAS BEEN FOUND that injured athletes, particularly from one sporting code, have been using peptides to assist in rehabilitating soft tissue injuries.
- Your club has admitted that they do not know what was given to their players, hence they went to ASADA.
- Vitamin C and B are nowhere near serious enough to go to ASADA.
- Mark McVeigh's explanation is ridiculous. Vitamin C is not injected into the stomach and secondly it is only normally injected into people who are severly deficient in Vitamin C. The injection itself is quite painful and it causes the muscles to hurt for hours, possibly days. Try training and recovering with that muscle pain. To think that a team of AFL footballers was severly lacking in Vitamin C is absolutely ridiculous and quite frankly an insult to everybody's intelligence.
- Also players wouldn't request any consent forms if all they were getting were Vitamin B and C shots.

If you think there is even a remote chance that it's some other club be it from AFL or NRL you are outright delusional.

Because you're the one who is lead around on a leash by the dog whistling "journalism".

There are many facts in your statement, however, you stretch to connect them .... and you are saying that the ASADA is being called in because of the injections. What makes you so sure?

Anyhow, I KNOW you're wrong.

 

[TerryWallet]

It never ceases to amaze me how passionate posters are in supporting their club and don't get why posters have a go at them - for the hawks I'm always impressed when chewy goes to war so hats off to lance and co for their ongoing efforts since the storm broke.

I don't know what the outcome is going to be, personally I don't believe the bombers are the club at p17 and am not going to speculate (other than to myself) who it may be other than to say I'm muttering the same mantra as Pryor but in saying that I still don't agree or understand the waiver/consent, the confidentiality agreements and a press conference with nothing of substance so I'm sure there is more to come.

I've never understood the bunker mentality of some posters for ALL clubs either.

I am continually intrigued by it.

Then again, i suppose some people can't understand the stirring mentality either.

 

[replicant]

 

[TDavo23]

Exactly, the vitamin C defence is ludicrous & obviously bogus. Don't understand why so many are applauding him.

Do they all have scurvy down at Essendon & are in need of a painful shot? Surely Vitamin C can be obtained though a healthy diet, which you'd expect was a top priority for professional athletes. Are they unable to buy fruit & vegetables?

It's been said it before and I'll say it again: it is completely and utterly plausible that he received a vitamin C injection for the exact circumstance he said he received it for (i.e. fatigue). Whether or not it's more effective than an oral dosage is debatable and frankly not what you're arguing so we'll leave that discussion for another day.

source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3273429/

 

[Mick98]

Footy does start next week yeah?

Maybe people should focus on that and not pretend to know about things we can't control.
Be it my club or multiple clubs,let the cards fall where they may

 

[TerryWallet]

It's been said it before and I'll say it again: it is completely and utterly plausible that he received a vitamin C injection for the exact circumstance he said he received it for (i.e. fatigue). Whether or not it's more effective than an oral dosage is debatable and frankly not what you're arguing so we'll leave that discussion for another day.

source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3273429/

It's also utterly plausible that he lost his temper as usual and embarrassed himself.

Spike may have got Vitamin shots but i doubt the young guns who stacked on the muscle were getting Vitamin shots in the guts in Dr Dank's office.

 

[EnolaGay]

Footy does start next week yeah?

Maybe people should focus on that and not pretend to know about things we can't control.
Be it my club or multiple clubs,let the cards fall where they may

Don't bring reason, common sense and a voice of calm to this thread when we have innuendo, hearsay painted as fact and rampant sensationalist comments to play with!

 

[Tanks_Alot]

That's not how these things work. If he was on any kind of growth factor releasing peptide (i.e. the illegal kinds of peptides) there is absolutely no way that he would have a longer recovery period than someone that wasn't regardless of their prior medical history.

Sorry, but you cannot state that as a fact. The fact that taking GHRP-6 most likely causes the soft tissue injury in the first place, the muscle mass continues to strain the injured area. The muscle doesn't fall off allowing the body a normal recovery, that mass is still there so the soft tissue injury has a very hard time to recover in the first place.

As for the bolded part; well then he's off the hook then isn't he?

Yes he would be if he didn't take anything, but the whole team has never been accused in the first place. There are those that refused to take anything untoward and Zaharakis could be one of those players. Doesn't mean the rest of your club is off the hook though.

 

[SPREWELL]

How dumb are people here? No person thinks it was only vits. Bovine is the borderline substance. Even BT made a joke on tweeter re cows today.

There may be some animal peptides involved too.

None illegal.

The flag to this whole thing was Danks link to crime. However media were pressing on illegal Peds too.

Dank would not be speaking if he gave illegal product.

 

[EnolaGay]

It's also utterly plausible that he lost his temper as usual and embarrassed himself.

Spike may have got Vitamin shots but i doubt the young guns who stacked on the muscle were getting Vitamin shots in the guts in Dr Dank's office.

You're totally correct TW, frankly I don't know why ASADA/AFL are even bothering to investigate when you clearly have all the evidence for an open and shut case.

Lock them all up at EFC and throw away the key!

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Strong knowledge of how the body works lol.

LOL he claims to have taken a Vitamin C shot because his kid has been keeping him awake? I tablet would've been perfectly fine for this case, he wasn't severly lacking Vitamin C to the point where he's got scurvy lol.

Carrazzo had triplets FFS you don't hear about him taking Vitamin C shots.

 

[Beer n Skittles]

It never ceases to amaze me how passionate posters are in supporting their club and don't get why posters have a go at them - for the hawks I'm always impressed when chewy goes to war so hats off to lance and co for their ongoing efforts since the storm broke.

I kind of feel the opposite - Lance has been fine - but a lot of guys are confusing speculation with accusation & attacking what seem to me to be perfectly legitimate questions.

I suppose when you feel your club is under seige you come out swinging

 

[fishardansin]

Your wishes are entirely myopic and selfish.

No this is in regards to many issues.

The main issue for me is wealthy people continually spewing misinformation into the common discussioin so that no one knows what to believe and using "news" as a way to sell "entertainment".

Caro definitely carries bitterness for Essendon because her mole on the board was sacked ... because they discovered she was a mole but the rest of them go around making up stuff just to excite themselves and get themselves in the limelight.

Then we have people like Andrew Bolt who deliberately lie.

 

[TerryWallet]

You're totally correct TW, frankly I don't know why ASADA/AFL are even bothering to investigate when you clearly have all the evidence for an open and shut case.

Lock them all up at EFC and throw away the key!

You started well and ended strongly here EG.

 

[Blue and Silver]

Man the Red and Black glasses have come on pretty hard here.

Next thing you know they'll be defending Dank, and saying he has been misrepresented.

The following seems to be extremely plausible:

Dank is involved in peptide smuggling and distribution in the guise of anti-ageing clinics.

Essendon players attended said clinics and received injections in their stomachs.

According to McVeigh they were told these were "Vitamin B and C" injections

Dank in fact injected the players with peptide with the intention to increase muscle growth to fulfill his role at Essendon, as a "sports scientist".

Their could be some conjecture as to whether the injections were peptide but a)the Vitamin B/C explanation is nonsensical b) Dank is accused of being an active participant in peptide smuggling rings c) the ACC report makes specific mention of anti-ageing clinics as sites of injections d) There were no supervising medical staff. All point to the use of steroids.

The big questions that remain:

Did the admin/coaches know?

Did the players?

How long/How much?

 

[PoidaCat]

LOL he claims to have taken a Vitamin C shot because his kid has been keeping him awake? I tablet would've been perfectly fine for this case, he wasn't severly lacking Vitamin C to the point where he's got scurvy lol.

Carrazzo had triplets FFS you don't hear about him taking Vitamin C shots.

Taking a tablet is vastly different to getting an injection. There is no arguing with that its fact.

I couldn't care less about any footy players claims.

 

[EnolaGay]

You started well and ended strongly here EG.

Cheers. You've got it nailed 100%. Can't argue with your logic, sound as the Titanic

 

[BlueTouchPaper]

No this is in regards to many issues.

The main issue for me is wealthy people continually spewing misinformation into the common discussioin so that no one knows what to believe and using "news" as a way to sell "entertainment".

Why are you discriminating against the wealthy? If I was one of them I may take offense.

The legal system as an institution of behavior-conditioning, has more noble causes to preoccupy itself with.