Mega Thread AFL to investigate Essendon for controversial fitness program - PART3

[Barry Zuckercorn]

At this point in time no one knows what the **** is going on, Essendon has zipped their lips.
I am prepared to wait until I know what is going on before I start hanging people.

If that makes me a clown, then cool thanks for your opinion.

Look, I know Hird is a legend at Essendon. Hird the player that is. But he's a coach now and very much open to criticism.

Growing up, I wore number 4 on my Carlton jumper. I loved Sticks to bits. Yet I can come out and say, hand on heart, that I'm no fan of Sticks the president. It's not that hard, you should try it some time.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Yeah, because it wasn't like we had a 6 game winning streak against your mob over a 3 year stretch from 07-10, or the fact we took your mob to a draw despite having 2 less players. No, Essendon have NEVER been able to deal with Carlton in the past...

You do realise the sides were quite different from 07-10 compared to 2012 right?

And yes, your brave effort in 2011 with 2 less players, who could ever forget that. You're such a brave club, look at the brave faces of your leaders...

 

[Kaiser Powser]

Look, I know Hird is a legend at Essendon. Hird the player that is. But he's a coach now and very much open to criticism.

Growing up, I wore number 4 on my Carlton jumper. I loved Sticks to bits. Yet I can come out and say, hand on heart, that I'm no fan of Sticks the president. It's not that hard, you should try it some time.

Sure, maybe when I find out what actually has happened.

 

[maddog37]

Possibly, but we are talikng about a completely different season.
AFL have made it clear that this is not an issue going into 2013.

So if you play finals this year, the experience of having played in finals previously would be of no benefit?

You cannot simply wash your hands of the past and say oops.

 

[hoianbulldog]

As ridiculous as your post is, it actually backs up my point that there is no lasting benefit.

How can you say there are no lasting benefits to taking illegal suppliments to build the body quickly? That's just silly.

Not saying they did take anything, but your comment is just silly.

 

[Barry Zuckercorn]

to be fair, why would he?

Danks reports to Da Weapon
Da Weapon (I believe) reports to Corcoran
Corcoran reports to the CEO

Danks was brought into the EFC by Da Weapon, who was brought in by Bomber

Management of the sports science division is the domain of the footy dept - coach would only provide input and feedback based upon what they need from them, and feedback on outcomes

Even for someone who hates Essendon, and thinks Hird as a coach is massively over-rated, I fail to see how under this scope Hird has any responsibility over the activities of Danks (assuming he is found to have broken some rules)

So what's Hird's role then? To sit in the coaches seat on game day, run his hands through his hair and look frustrated?

Everything else at the club is out of his hands?

You really think that's how blokes like Sheedy, Matthews, Malthouse ran/run their clubs?

 

[Kaiser Powser]

So if you play finals this year, the experience of having played in finals previously would be of no benefit?

You cannot simply wash your hands of the past and say oops.

You do know that we didn't play finals last year? Last year being the only year in question here.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Made the prelim, a prelim is a game you must win if you want to make it to the GF, just so you know, i don't think your team has made it that far for a decade and a half or so.

Actually we made the 99 prelim which was a bit over 12 years ago, not a decade and a half.

But anyway, I doubt you should be talking to me about winning finals given how many Grand Finals we've beat you in. Maybe your ancestor was alive to see a Pies victory over the Blues on the big stage.

 

[Barry Zuckercorn]

Sure, maybe when I find out what actually has happened.

Put it this way, I assure you that either one of these 2 has definitely happened: 1) involvement in drug cheating or 2) gross negligence/incompetence. It's only a matter of time before we find out which one.

But thank you for proving my point that Hird is beyond criticism at Essendon.

The bloke could sell your club to some Saudi sheik and you blokes will still worship the ground he walks on. Wake up!

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Sooo... what is it that we’ve actually done here?

 

[BomberWatson]

You do realise the sides were quite different from 07-10 compared to 2012 right?

And yes, your brave effort in 2011 with 2 less players, who could ever forget that. You're such a brave club, look at the brave faces of your leaders...

Cute collage you got going there, doesn't actually discuss the second point, likely because you don't have any answer to it. As for the first point; the only real addition personnel wise from the 10 sides and the 12 sides was Heppell. The only noticeable ommision from these same sides was Welsh? Yeah, sorry to break to you, but our list hasn't changed that much in the past 2 years.

 

[MaddAdam]

So what's Hird's role then? To sit in the coaches seat on game day, run his hands through his hair and look frustrated?

Everything else at the club is out of his hands?

You really think that's how blokes like Sheedy, Matthews, Malthouse ran/run their clubs?

I won't compare Brad Scott to multiple premiership winners like the blokes you mentioned but the idea that he wouldn't know exactly was being given to the players is risible.

 

[Barry Zuckercorn]

come on Bazza. The club feel that they do know what was injected, and that none of it was illegal. What, you want us to march down there with pitchforks because the Herald Sun said so?

Lance, you're a gun... But do you not see where I'm coming from with regards to Hird?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Put it this way, I assure you that either one of these 2 has definitely happened: 1) involvement in drug cheating or 2) gross negligence/incompetence. It's only a matter of time before we find out which one.

So why do Stephen Dank, Mark McVeigh and Jobe Watson (who were all actually there) disagree with you?

 

[MaddAdam]

come on Bazza. The club feel that they do know what was injected, and that none of it was illegal. What, you want us to march down there with pitchforks because the Herald Sun said so?

Hence the "I've just been given six weeks to live look" on the coaches face at the presser.

Either you know or you don't.

The reality is Essendon don't know what was injected. ASADA will tell them.

 

[Doss]

As a Bomber supporter would.

Would you like a bigger tin foil hat?

Seriously, why don't we just declare null and void every single game in the history of VFL/AFL.

With the bows you are drawing, it won't be long before every single game could potentially, in one way or another, be tainted.

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Cute collage you got going there, doesn't actually discuss the second point, likely because you don't have any answer to it. As for the first point; the only real addition personnel wise from the 10 sides and the 12 sides was Heppell. The only noticeable ommision from these same sides was Welsh? Yeah, sorry to break to you, but our list hasn't changed that much in the past 2 years.

Your team didn't change much maybe, but ours did.

 

[PieBeast]

So what's Hird's role then? To sit in the coaches seat on game day, run his hands through his hair and look frustrated?

Far more to it Baz

 

[Kaiser Powser]

How can you say there are no lasting benefits to taking illegal suppliments to build the body quickly? That's just silly.

Not saying they did take anything, but your comment is just silly.

Peptides only assist in recovery, and that could be the substance. The AFL have no concerns re:2013. We are not talking about anobolic steroids or stuff like that.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Hence the "I've just been given six weeks to live look" on the coaches face at the presser.

Either you know or you don't.

The reality is Essendon don't know what was injected. ASADA will tell them.

The press conference body language eh. That old chestnut.

 

[Silvagnis]

Really? Hurley would fill such a hole in Carlton's list. Even though Yarran has lots of potential, a good KPF is a much rarer thing, especially at Carlton

I could say the same about the Hawks swapping Rioli to have Henderson hold down CHB for the next six seasons.

Doubt that you'd do that trade.

give it up mate. You missed out on Hurley and you're simply not getting him, no matter how fanciful your ideas are

We did?

Essendon's POTY is clearly handed out for the best deflection.

You'd probably rate Heppell and Myers more than Bennell/Day/Darling and Henderson if Carlton had their pick of these players.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Lance, you're a gun... But do you not see where I'm coming from with regards to Hird?

I get where you're coming from, but until there's even a shred of proof you're going to keep getting frustrated by Essendon opinions. The guy has earned the right to our trust, a million times over

 

[Ned_Flanders]

So what's Hird's role then? To sit in the coaches seat on game day, run his hands through his hair and look frustrated?

Everything else at the club is out of his hands?

You really think that's how blokes like Sheedy, Matthews, Malthouse ran/run their clubs?

James Hird's role is to coach the side, and manage his coaching team

Clubs have deliberately taken away the power of coaches to control recruitment, list management, development, and medical because coaches are only concerned about their next contract, while these issues can effect things for 10+ years.

Just look at Richmond. Wallace interfered in recruitment (focus on light flankers!!), list management (get McMahon), development (speed over strength and skills), and medical (played Richo and Foley both injured when trying to save his career), and look what happened. He was wrong on just about everything, our list imploded, he left, and we were left with a GWS/GC type rebuild.

This was because he only looked at what was good for him, and not developing a list for the next coach. Handing over power of these functions means longer term views hold (i.e. Judd gets rested in order to preserve his body and hold off retirement for a couple of years, even if it means you field a weaker side for 1 week), BUT it means the coach only gets to influence their decision making processes, not dictate them.

If they don't have any power, how can they carry the can when it stuffs up?

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Depends what the findings are. I think it will turn out the players have gained no actual future benefit from anything taken.
No doubt some trolls will use this as material for years, I am not naive about that.

So the players didn't get bigger and stronger last pre-season?
So the new muscles just fall off when you get off the gear?

 

[Tanks_Alot]

Hence the "I've just been given six weeks to live look" on the coaches face at the presser.

Either you know or you don't.

The reality is Essendon don't know what was injected. ASADA will tell them.

Either way, they all have to go. Even if everything was legal, the fact that they were too negligent to know what their players were given proves that they are incompetent. They failed their job. It is their responsibility to guarantee the players wellfare as well as the integrity of the competition.