Autopsy Rd 11 Vent thread Carlton vs ... some team

[mike ockerts]

Hope so but can't see it happening, Hawks will target our 'soft' players and put them off their game, we will be playing 4 or 5 short, hard to win a game like that.

Tend to agree with this, except they won't put them off there games, they'll play through them to kick a winning score.

 

[#BeNavy]

In fairness, look at the Swans v Essendon match last season.

The Swans held on by the skin of their teeth after being 8 (?) goals up at the final change.

Or the Swans vs Freo match this season for that matter.

In reality, that Swans v Freo match was never really dominated by the Swans. Yes, they were up by 4 goals at one stage but Freo had 10 more scoring shots over the match. They couldn't finish their work. They shot themselves in the foot with bad kicking.

I wouldn't bother looking at the Swans v Ess game last year. The Swans are a far more superior side now to what they were then.

The point I'm making is that when those sides are well on top and lead by 5 goals, they don't let the opposition back in the contest to win.

Our mentality is that we have done enough to be leading and win the game and it comes back to bite us time and time again. Even the Adelaide game in round 5 - we lead by as much as 8 goals but I think people forget that the Crows got back to within 3 goals in the last quarter.

If we were to fix this issue, we would be a decent side, but the reality is, we haven't fixed it and it has been a lingering issue for so long. I don't why, and I don't know how the club can fix it. I thought it would have been fixed by now.

 

[pinot]

You can be sure Malthouse will have the leadership group locked in his office all week and grill them.

 

[Bluesince62]

Waite 7.1 Rabble 3.11
I wonder how we lost another winnable game

 

[#BeNavy]

Another thing that I can't work out is how we have this innate ability to let absolutely hacks hurt us.

A good case in point last night was Jake Melksham.

Seriously, even his own supporters were calling for him to be dropped if you read their board this week, saying his not good enough, he doesn't work hard enough, he's not up to it.

And then he bobs and kicks 3 goals, one being the winning goal. Like seriously, who was playing on the guy?

And why do we always allow shitkickers to be matchwinners against us?

 

[le dominateur]

One thing MM has got right is our defence - Jamison, Henderson, White, Tuohy, Walker and Simpson is as good as any in the comp, they are playing fantastic rebounding and accountable football. The only potential downer is there does not appear to be any replacements in the 2s banging the door down demanding a game should the need arise.

 

[T2B_]

Another thing that I can't work out is how we have this innate ability to let absolutely hacks hurt us.

A good case in point last night was Jake Melksham.

Seriously, even his own supporters were calling for him to be dropped if you read their board this week, saying his not good enough, he doesn't work hard enough, he's not up to it.

And then he bobs and kicks 3 goals, one being the winning goal. Like seriously, who was playing on the guy?

And why do we always allow shitkickers to be matchwinners against us?

I'd also love to know why such hacks become such dead-eye dicks against us. His kick between the sticks was absolutely perfect despite all the pressure. I mean kudos for that and doing something we couldn't, but against anyone else it wouldn't happen.

 

[sherb]

In reality, that Swans v Freo match was never really dominated by the Swans. Yes, they were up by 4 goals at one stage but Freo had 10 more scoring shots over the match. They couldn't finish their work. They shot themselves in the foot with bad kicking.

I wouldn't bother looking at the Swans v Ess game last year. The Swans are a far more superior side now to what they were then.

No, sorry, you can't use the Swans as an example of not blowing a match winning lead and then dismiss an occasion when they did blow a match winning lead because it doesn't suit your argument.

The fact that they escaped with a draw doesn't discount the fact that they were 27 points up at the 11 minute mark of the final term againts Freo, on their own turf as well no less.

And the scoring shots only blew out because of Freo's domination of the latter stages of the game. When the lead was 27 points, the scoring shots were 18-15 Freo's way.

 

[#BeNavy]

No, sorry, you can't use the Swans as an example of not blowing a match winning lead and then dismiss an occasion when they did blow a match winning lead because it doesn't suit your argument.

The fact that they escaped with a draw doesn't discount the fact that they were 27 points up at the 11 minute mark of the final term againts Freo, on their own turf as well no less.

And the scoring shots only blew out because of Freo's domination of the latter stages of the game. When the lead was 27 points, the scoring shots were 18-15 Freo's way.

Ok, let me explain myself again.

Syd were 9 points up at the last change, 9 points. They kicked 3 quick goals in the first 10mins of the last quarter to lead by 27 points but Freo finished with a flurry. The game was actually even-stevens at 3 qtr time until the Swans got a mini run on, and then Freo finished strongly. The Swans were never really dominant in this game and Freo, a worthy opponent, were very competitive for the entire game bar for a 10 min lapse in the last qtr.

This game is a complete contrast to the game that was played last night. Carlton dominated for 2 and a half quarters and were 5 goals up. If Sydney were in this position after having dominated for this period of time in the game, they would never have let them back in the game.

A great example of them protecting their dominance ironically was against the drug cheats last week. They were up by 6 goals in the third and they got back to within 4 goals in the last, but they knuckled down and started pressuring the scum and emphatically wrestled the momentum back with tough, physical play and terrific pressure, only to run out winners by 7 goals.

There's a difference between letting a team back in the game after completely dominating a game for a good period of the game, and letting a team back in it without actually really dominating or taking a stranglehold on the game.

 

[SBYM]

Re Lucas;

I don't mean to hold him accountable for the loss, but when you're given the licence to play exclusively outside, you must have very good disposal skills and use the ball that your teammates earned through hard fought, contested possessions with precision.

The wisest thing I've read on this forum regarding Sugar, and a lesson that must be applied to the ENTIRE team. Each player has a role; each is one part of a larger structure...to use an old cliche, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

I'm not saying Kane is our weakest link, but he is the player who should be on the outside, on the end of a handball, running into goal. He must not miss. Kicking that goal is his job. Being decisive and clinical with his disposal whilst running forward is his job. I am really starting to question his composure with the ball - it seems his first instinct is to look for the runner on his outside (Kane, you're the runner) - and that is terminal for an outside player for the reasons detailed above.

This is just a specific example, he is not alone...

I'll forgive Jeff his miss because replays have shown an erroneous decision was made. Army, Sugar, Gibba, MK, Brock...each missed shots that would probably have made things quite different. Melksham sinks his goal, whilst White sprays his off the side of his boot.

Personally, I am quite bullish about this group, but with one caveat...

Until we develop killer instinct/mental toughness/composure/mongrel/whatever you want to call it, losses like last night are our lot.

We had our foot on their throat last night, yet ended up with donuts, and the shame is we deserve them.

 

[GoBlues!]

Another thing that I can't work out is how we have this innate ability to let absolutely hacks hurt us.

A good case in point last night was Jake Melksham.

Seriously, even his own supporters were calling for him to be dropped if you read their board this week, saying his not good enough, he doesn't work hard enough, he's not up to it.

And then he bobs and kicks 3 goals, one being the winning goal. Like seriously, who was playing on the guy?

And why do we always allow shitkickers to be matchwinners against us?

Maybe the coaches were so focused on Essendons gun players like Watson and Stanton they didn't worry about the others.

Also not sure why you would play Yarran as a sub in a big game. It might be okay if we were playing a GWS or Melbourne and you wanted to rest him. Maybe they were worried about his hamstring tightness a from a few weeks ago. Assuming he was 100% fit we could've used his skills on the forward line/midfield for the whole game.

Coaches need to have a ghlat.

 

[Barry Zuckercorn]

I don't know about that - we are sitting 3rd right now - the ladder doesn't lie, and are a good chance to finish top 4 given we have Gold Coast, Bulldogs, GWS, Port and West Coast over the next 5 games...

If you finish top 4, Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney will be falling over themselves to play you in the qualifying final. Don't get me wrong, it would be the same for us.

FWIW I cant see essendon finishing higher than 6th.

 

[HARKER]

More clearances, more contested possessions and more inside 50s.
We should have had them easily but we didn't, as we should have grabbed Richmond and Collingwood and possibly even Geelong...........but we didn't.

I'm not too concerned at all and as long as we don't dip into playing like we did last year at times, we'll be in good shape.
Lots of things are set in place but we have several little things which undo us.

We were never going to win the big one this year, but we must keep getting better in the things that are frustrating Mick right now.
I may be alone but I'm really looking forward to the next few weeks.

 

[pepalenko]

I try my best to not be negative these days and try to avoid calling for players to be dropped, axed etc. However, John Barker must be gone at season's end, preferably sooner.
I make this statement, with the presumption that he should have most of the responsibility for skills like, say, goal kicking.

 

[Barry Zuckercorn]

why not say that the club has been going backwards for the last 18 years...

it's called over-expectations...

I'm not crying out for a flag. I just want to see some real progress, top 4 for eg. As it stands today, were not even at a level where the good clubs take us seriously. Nobody takes us seriously. You havent noticed this?

How long will it take this club to get it right? Time and time again you see clubs at the top, fall away a bit (or a lot in some cases), rebuild in a year or 2 and reach the top or thereabouts again (Collingwood, Geelong, Sydney, WCE etc). We were at the bottom for a lot longer than any of these clubs and still havent finished top 4 once!

Just face it, we're not a great club right now.

 

[pinot]

More clearances, more contested possessions and more inside 50s.
We should have had them easily but we didn't, as we should have grabbed Richmond and Collingwood and possibly even Geelong...........but we didn't.

I'm not too concerned at all and as long as we don't dip into playing like we did last year at times, we'll be in good shape.
Lots of things are set in place but we have several little things which undo us.

We were never going to win the big one this year, but we must keep getting better in the things that are frustrating Mick right now.
I may be alone but I'm really looking forward to the next few weeks.

Should have won - we had way too much class across the ground. Either Essendon set their defensive structures in a way were we couldn't penetrate efficiently or we have plummeted in our efficiency when going i50. Either way didn't help Betts had an absolute stinker.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Somebody boot this clown off the board, he's only ever in here claiming how crap Carlton are. Even worse than a troll. Suspect a bomber in disguise.

He's gone.

 

[Laurence]

Can we please get a new forward coach... Been saying it for years, J Barker is a spud!
Last night we had no structure early and their spare man in defence was loving it. Yes Waite ended with 7, but players of Betts and Garlett were no where to be seen when the ball hit the floor.

Our midfielders worked well last night. But sometimes their decision making lets them down. Inside 50's were wasted and chopped of everytime.

Seasons end we must look for a confident classy midfielder that can finish. Lucas, Yaz, Garlett have shown at time they lack confidence when it's time to deliver on the big stage.

Although a disappointed member... I AM CARLTON.

 

[Barry Zuckercorn]

Pep, whatever needs to be done, will be done.

We're not going to throw the baby out with the bath-water but there are already things in place geared to make us a better team next year.

I'm actually enjoying this year as I can see us moving forwards sooner than later.

I would tend to agree... If I didnt hear the same thing year after year.

 

[Big Sim]

Yarran should have started. Lucas sub. What genius decided otherwise?

 

[BlueTongue]

I think we will beat Hawks

What is obvious about Hawthorn is they don't like it one on one. If we play accountable footy like we did in the first half of last night's game (and actually convert some more misses to goals), we may have a chance. Too many sides try to take them on at the running game, and they are the best in the league at it because their disposal is so good and they can hit targets on the run.

 

[Big Sim]

The best move hird made all night was to stop pretending it was him coaching and not bomber.

 

[BlueTongue]

The best move hird made all night was to stop pretending it was him coaching and not bomber.

Bet he is looking at that footage of Bomber dictating the terms and feeling like a grade-A knob today.

 

[GoBlues!]

More clearances, more contested possessions and more inside 50s.
We should have had them easily but we didn't, as we should have grabbed Richmond and Collingwood and possibly even Geelong...........but we didn't.

I'm not too concerned at all and as long as we don't dip into playing like we did last year at times, we'll be in good shape.
Lots of things are set in place but we have several little things which undo us.

We were never going to win the big one this year, but we must keep getting better in the things that are frustrating Mick right now.
I may be alone but I'm really looking forward to the next few weeks.

Agree Harks.

I'm happy with most parts of our game last night like our defensive structure and clearances. But our forward line and haphazard entries inside 50 couldn't deal with Essendons flood. We seemed to kick and hope at times to 1 on 3 situations. Our small forwards were ineffective last night and it was only Waite who could deal with it.

 

[SBYM]

As it stands today, were not even at a level where the good clubs take us seriously. Nobody takes us seriously.

The inconvenient truth.