Review When does the Penny drop for Sando

[pjcrows]

Nobody said that. I'm asking the question whether never having had a coach with previous AFL premiership experience has put more pressure on all of our coaches over the course of history. It's a valid question and is actually designed to take a bit of the heat off Sando and give him some advice from people who know how this city, its media and its fans operate.

Perhaps you need to redo Year 12 reading and comprehension or just get a clue about the Adelaide football and media environment.

I wasn't referring to your post.

 

[Slippery Pete]

I know Craig had to go, and I'm generally supportive of Sando's approach, but after the game Hannebery said "when you deny the opposition time and space you put them under pressure to cough up the ball".

Hmm "time and space"...exactly the words Craig used to use.

And this newly found "slingshot" model..how does that work?? Outnumber the opposition, handball out the back, two more handballs to clear the area, switch kick to someone in place then run through the middle. Also known as the plan the Freo beat us with last week. Also known as Craig's discredited clearance plan.

And now we have people on here saying we've bulked up too much and lost speed. Despite the fact that we were beaten in the stoppages by cleverly bigger bodies. So, what then...out with the wrestling ring, in with the bikes again??

How about this for a theory. Slingshot footy is kind of a football variation on what Italy have used to win four soccer World Cups. Defend, defend defend and absorb with numbers (doesnt even matter if you concede inside 50s) and then bang, get the ball over the back and counter attack with speed to a wide open forward line. Jetta etc etc

Now, there's one caveat. In soccer, there's a usually a line of defenders standing across the middle. If that fails, there's a goalkeeper. If the ball gets out the back, the defending team has that one final line of defence. It's still not a laydown misere.

In AFL, that ball gets slingshotted out the back, it's all over. A score is inevitable. It's undefendable.

You know where I'm going with this.....

How about a defensive sweeper? Or two? Or three? Someone standing there without an opponent, not pushing up the field. Would it work as a change-up?

 

[Damp Squarie]

The Game style/plan needs some serious tweaking. A few things I'd be paying a lot of attention to

- Defensive coverage of opposition spread from clearance or any 50/50 contest
- Our spread from a contest, we don't know how to get open (this is highlighted against good defensive sides)
- Our forwardline press is basically non existent. I'd go one on one from kickins. We create very few goals from turnovers in our forwardline.
- Our kickins are deplorable. When we don't have an option the bail out is to Sauce or a tall on the flank. This almost never works and also we actually don't go wide enough down the line to at least get the ball out of bounds. For once I'd love to see a long kick straight down the middle to a one on one contest. It maybe more risky, but the reward is very high.
- Forward structure. Our forwards are not dangerous at all when they push up the ground towards the wing. Often because they encounter a 1 on 2 or a 2 on 3.

This is pretty accurate.
Our defensive coverage of opposition spread is non existant, whereas when Sydney got it they were like a shot out of a gun. Our kickins have been a joke for awhile now.

 

[Gary17]

Clever.

It's like Leigh Matthews said on the 5AA show a while back: " Hey have you heard of this new gameplan? They're calling it "contested footy" - its amazing!"

I'm not saying we don't have problems (and yes, including that Trigg should go, because it affects the team), but seriously:
- we're the fourth youngest team in the competition
- Sydney are the reigning premiers
- they've got much bigger bodies than us, and a gameplan they've been honing for years
- as well as having a harder draw this year and key players missing, the one thing we did last year that we're not doing this year is a fanatical attack on the ball. This year we do it in the last 10 minutes when we're a silly chance to win.

People keep saying "the game keeps changing" - the one thing that hasn't changed is that anything less than a suicidal attack on the ball and a willingness to run hard to every contest will mean you get beaten by a team that does just that. We do it in patches, just nowhere near enough n

 

[Gary17]

How about this for a theory. Slingshot footy is kind of a football variation on what Italy have used to win four soccer World Cups. Defend, defend defend and absorb with numbers (doesnt even matter if you concede inside 50s) and then bang, get the ball over the back and counter attack with speed to a wide open forward line. Jetta etc etc

Ah huh! Combine Eade's flood with Pagan's Paddock! I like it

 

[Slippery Pete]

Ah huh! Combine Eade's flood with Pagan's Paddock! I like it

Exactly right. There is nothing new under the sun with this stuff, although some "analysts" would have you believe otherwise.

 

[Geoffa32]

This is pretty accurate.
Our defensive coverage of opposition spread is non existant, whereas when Sydney got it they were like a shot out of a gun. Our kickins have been a joke for awhile now.

I noticed during the Saints game, and it was a problem last year as well, that we have an issue when another team spread.

In the Saints game I realised it is not because our players are slow. It is due to the method of coverage we employ. Our guys tend to peel off an attacking player as they move the ball forward and then there is an expectation another player will come onto this player to head them off and stop the run. It does not always work. When it does work it will mean we have free players to attack, but when it does not work it is messy and a certain goal. Last year it worked more times than not. This year it is killing us.

 

[Geoffa32]

Exactly right. There is nothing new under the sun with this stuff, although some "analysts" would have you believe otherwise.

It will be interesting to see how this works with Tippett. He was never the best at being the kind of forward who can go into the defensive half and defend, then switch to attack and get into position to be effective up forward, ie reading the play.

Unless of course he has spent the last six months doing some study on this and learning the game, not just relying on his natural strength to win the ball up forward. If he has done this, and improved his kicking he will be worth the coin he is getting, and scary. Sydney will be unstoppable.

 

[Schulzycrow]

It will be interesting to see how this works with Tippett. He was never the best at being the kind of forward who can go into the defensive half and defend, then switch to attack and get into position to be effective up forward, ie reading the play.

Unless of course he has spent the last six months doing some study on this and learning the game, not just relying on his natural strength to win the ball up forward. If he has done this, and improved his kicking he will be worth the coin he is getting, and scary. Sydney will be unstoppable.

Wait for Eddie to squeal about this. Geelong/Hawks/Sydney GF.

 

[BACCS]

Kingy is on a rampage!

 

[PCORF]

The coach is the one who continues to pick an out if form Porpy, Radar, VB, D-Mac while keeping out Stiffy, Lyon and Riley

So Stiffy is not in our best 22

The coach is the one who has changed our game to a Geelong like high risk high possession game

The coach is the one who has endorsed VB as the Capt

The coach is the one who has not improved our tackling

Tackling, what a joke. They are under too much pressure to tackle and don't care. Too hurt by that prelim final loss and Kurt tIppett going to the Swans to win premierships.

History shows that the AFC falls back the year after a good season. Time is running out. Season is done as I cannot see us finishing above 5th even if we finish strongly.

 

[mattymac]

I don't think Sando has it in him to end his mates' careers. I'm getting that sinking feeling that our best is already behind us. I was hoping maybe we could rally for 2014 cos god knows after that we've been trigged, but its dawning now that the foreseeable future will look like this. Watch us fail at the FA table as well.

 

[King Elvis]

One of the hardest things about being in a management position is making negative calls about someone else's job/career.

Some people don't make them because they're scared to, some people don't make them because they don't want to be the bad guy... But you learn pretty rapidly that if you don't make those calls, then other people, and yourself, can suffer as a result. You don't make the hard calls, you'll either lose money and possibly go out of business - or somebody else will make the hard call - on you.

Showing faith and trust in people is a good thing, but doing it with the same guys that keep letting you down, time after time, is just stupid. It's not doing anybody any favours.

Sando needs to learn this, quickly.

 

[fairfooty]

It will be interesting to see how this works with Tippett. He was never the best at being the kind of forward who can go into the defensive half and defend, then switch to attack and get into position to be effective up forward, ie reading the play.

Unless of course he has spent the last six months doing some study on this and learning the game, not just relying on his natural strength to win the ball up forward. If he has done this, and improved his kicking he will be worth the coin he is getting, and scary. Sydney will be unstoppable.

That's if he can get a game anyway - seriously difficult to break into that Sydney side at the moment. Who would they drop to accomodate him? And to accomodate someone who is seriously untried with their gameplan? Drop someone out of a ream that has has been seriously successful ? And no he won't have learnt a thing in the last six months cos he aready knows it all.

 

[azza77]

It's like Leigh Matthews said on the 5AA show a while back: " Hey have you heard of this new gameplan? They're calling it "contested footy" - its amazing!"

I'm not saying we don't have problems (and yes, including that Trigg should go, because it affects the team), but seriously:
- we're the fourth youngest team in the competition
- Sydney are the reigning premiers
- they've got much bigger bodies than us, and a gameplan they've been honing for years
- as well as having a harder draw this year and key players missing, the one thing we did last year that we're not doing this year is a fanatical attack on the ball. This year we do it in the last 10 minutes when we're a silly chance to win.

People keep saying "the game keeps changing" - the one thing that hasn't changed is that anything less than a suicidal attack on the ball and a willingness to run hard to every contest will mean you get beaten by a team that does just that. We do it in patches, just nowhere near enough n

one of the best posts on this thread. at least someone has a level head around here. yes we lost by 77 points but i cannot believe some of the knee jerk reactions and turn around in opinions on this board, its beyond a joke...

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

One of the hardest things about being in a management position is making negative calls about someone else's job/career.

Some people don't make them because they're scared to, some people don't make them because they don't want to be the bad guy... But you learn pretty rapidly that if you don't make those calls, then other people, and yourself, can suffer as a result. You don't make the hard calls, you'll either lose money and possibly go out of business - or somebody else will make the hard call - on you.

Showing faith and trust in people is a good thing, but doing it with the same guys that keep letting you down, time after time, is just stupid. It's not doing anybody any favours.

Sando needs to learn this, quickly.

This post is spot on.

Sando isn't close to losing him job, and at the moment isn't under the pump but I wonder if he has that feeling of losing his job, the decisions he makes on players would be different.

We have a history of sticking with a coach for way too long. Ayres was kept too long and Craig was allowed to stay as coach for 3 years longer than he should. If Sando knew his job was on the line if he didn't perform, how many hard divisions would he make on match day selection, trading, delisting and contracts.

We have a soft underbelly and players, coaches and supporters know thus and that doesn't lead to success because that allows these same people to play safe.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

one of the best posts on this thread. at least someone has a level head around here. yes we lost by 77 points but i cannot believe some of the knee jerk reactions and turn around in opinions on this board, its beyond a joke...

Its no knee jerk reaction

There has been some consistent failings with all our losses, no one is calling for Sando's head but what some of us is saying it's time to manage this list differently

 

[Bicks]

Thompson. Gets his hands on it but constantly puts team-mates under the pump with is decision making.

Ridiculous call!!!

There's quite a few that could be dropped on yesterday's efforts but for sure and certain it isn't Thommo!!! He was one of the few that wasn't absolutely monstered by the Swans, the only way he goes out of the team is if he has niggles which he obviously carried yesterday under duress.

 

[King Elvis]

Ridiculous call!!!

There's quite a few that could be dropped on yesterday's efforts but for sure and certain it isn't Thommo!!! He was one of the few that wasn't absolutely monstered by the Swans, the only way he goes out of the team is if he has niggles which he obviously carried yesterday under duress.

Part of the reason I think Lyons is a must, with Wright not far behind, it to support Thommo.

The guy has been our Hercules, he's carried us for years; we need to take some of the heat off of him - yet we've moved Danger out of the middle and dropped the best options to help him.

The guy is a beast, but we need to start thinking about managing him to prolong his career and maintain a high level of performance.

 

[azza77]

Its no knee jerk reaction

There has been some consistent failings with all our losses, no one is calling for Sando's head but what some of us is saying it's time to manage this list differently

I understand that but at times last night you seriously had to question the players attitude and execution, which is out of Sando's hands really. Yes our selection policy isnt exactly great and questions also need to be raised there, but with the form some of our players are in and the major goal kickers we've lost, I dont think we were ever going to come close to beating the reigning premiers. But in saying that i did not expect a 77 point loss and agree that some changes need to be made. Think we need to give it all against richmond next week (obviously) but then take some serious time out over the bye to asses everything and do a major reset. im kind of looking forward to seeing if our boys can get their act together witht he week off and see what theyre capable of serving up in the 2nd half of the season.

 

[King Elvis]

Do you think selection policy, if not consistent (or 'right'), can have a negative impact on a players mindset??

 

[Bicks]

Starting to think losing Stephen Schwerdt to the Gold Coast Suns might be having a bigger influence on our season than we think in view of our poor pre-season form and indifferent form in the early stanza of the season proper.....especially given the Gold Coast's major improvement in the way they are now finishing off their matches strongly and no longer getting absolutely run over in the second half. Giving some of our players "easy" pre-seasons and late starts to others looks to have seriously back-fired to me. Not taking the NAB Cup serious also seems to have got our players into the wrong mindset right from the start, something we haven't really recovered from IMO, especially in comparison to last years flying start when we were up from the get go.

Thoughts??

 

[Realslimshady2]

How about a defensive sweeper? Or two? Or three? Someone standing there without an opponent, not pushing up the field. Would it work as a change-up?

Isn't this the loose man in defence approach that's used regularly? Problem is that the opposition coach just mans up the loose defender. The soccer comparison falls down because generally they don't score from 50 out and need to work the ball close to goal. In afl players score regularly from outside the 50 which negates your loose defenders.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Arusso77

Players attitudes is not out of Sando's hands and this is my point

A coach needs to have the right level of tension with his players to ensure that they bring their A game every game and team selection is the best mechanism to create this competitive tension

The players attitude is a reflection of the Cosy relationships between coach and players with some players playing like they are immune to being dropoed, all many of us are saying its time for Sando to make calls on some pkayers that have been sadly out of form for the majority of the year

His trust in some pkayers is staring to be misplaced and this can become a dangerous territory if a coach does not bring it back into line on his terms

Pressure builds Diamonds

 

[Mike Smyth]

Wait for Eddie to squeal about this. Geelong/Hawks/Sydney GF.

And so he should. Unless of course if you think the huge advantages the AFL gives Sydney are fair and good for the game.