Mega Thread Tribunal Verdict - Not comfortably satisfied there was a violation - Statement in Post #2

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Not guilty because they didn't do it? Or because it can't be proven? I suspect it's the latter, which is sad for sport.
That is the law. Whatever that's how it had to go. They cannot be proven guilty and I think we all new it. Whether they were guilty or not is not up for question , its the way the investigation has run that has been a pain to everyone who has a serious interest in the AFL and Australian Rules Football.
And was not very competent.

I would hope WADA , LEAVE IT ALONE , THEY CAN ONLY GET BURIED IN APPEAL AFTER APPEAL AFTER APPEAL WHICH I DON'T THINK THEY CAN EVER WIN.

ITS TIME TO LEAVE IT .

Good result!
 
As I see it the situation is simple

Essendon brought in ASADA not the AFL, so the became aware of the issue.

Players admitted to it (eg Jobe)

The AFL, being a corrupt body in the opinion of many, would always seek to 'let it go', the mantra of umpiring dishonesty.

We see this in the AFL dictated call today.

Yet ASADA is a body of the world anti drug body and surely wont let go.

The verdict today was the crass legality of insufficient evidence. It did not sat that drugs were not taken.

Until that happens the 34 are not guilty, but certainly not proven innocent.

In honesty I believe players trust in their medicos, they just want to play.

Some may have been aware of illegality but how does one differentiate.

Jobe is a great player. I'm happy to see him play again.
 
Not guilty because they didn't do it? Or because it can't be proven? I suspect it's the latter, which is sad for sport.
That is the law. Whatever that's how it had to go. They cannot be proven guilty and I think we all new it. Whether they were guilty or not is not up for question , its the way the investigation has run that has been a pain to everyone who has a serious interest in the AFL and Australian Rules Football.
And was not very competent.

I would hope WADA , LEAVE IT ALONE , THEY CAN ONLY GET BURIED IN APPEAL AFTER APPEAL AFTER APPEAL WHICH I DON'T THINK THEY CAN EVER WIN.

ITS TIME TO LEAVE IT .

Good result!
 

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This is a question?
So the burden of proof lies with the AFL, the guilty verdict can be found, but not by the use of probability? That is first question.

The burden of proof lies with the AFL, the guilty verdict can be found, but, without using the term in law of reasonable doubt, yes/no? Question 2.


From my non learned understanding, does that mean that if found guilty the players will have no choice but to go to civil legal court again to clear their names.

If they refuse to be blamed for what they might /might not have done?

No it wasn't a question. I posted the above in response to a question posed by another poster.

I'm not sure of the intent of your other comments but I'll take my best guess.

The burden of proof is 'comfortable satisfaction'. For a civil matter, it is normally 'balance of probabilities' ie you probably did it would be good enough. For an Anti-Doping Rule Violation tribunal, the level of comfortable satisfaction is higher. Along the lines of "I'm sure you did it" even though there might be reasonable doubt. Its still a civil matter but with a higher level of proof required.

'Beyond reasonable doubt' is a very high standard of proof which basically mean there is no other 'reasonable' explanation other than 'you did it'

As far as clearing their names, it isn't relevant right now, but had they been found to have breached to code they could have appealed to the AFL Appeals Panel and the to the Court of Arbitration in Sport. That where it ends unless the rules were not followed and they would have recourse to civil remedies via the courts. Under normal conditions rights of appeal would expire after a decision in CAS.
 
That is the law. Whatever that's how it had to go. They cannot be proven guilty and I think we all new it. Whether they were guilty or not is not up for question , its the way the investigation has run that has been a pain to everyone who has a serious interest in the AFL and Australian Rules Football.
And was not very competent.

I would hope WADA , LEAVE IT ALONE , THEY CAN ONLY GET BURIED IN APPEAL AFTER APPEAL AFTER APPEAL WHICH I DON'T THINK THEY CAN EVER WIN.

ITS TIME TO LEAVE IT .

Good result!
They have to win, otherwise the door is open for drugs
 
That is the law. Whatever that's how it had to go. They cannot be proven guilty and I think we all new it. Whether they were guilty or not is not up for question , its the way the investigation has run that has been a pain to everyone who has a serious interest in the AFL and Australian Rules Football.
And was not very competent.

I would hope WADA , LEAVE IT ALONE , THEY CAN ONLY GET BURIED IN APPEAL AFTER APPEAL AFTER APPEAL WHICH I DON'T THINK THEY CAN EVER WIN.

ITS TIME TO LEAVE IT .

Good result!

No, thats just silly.

Would you be saying to the players 'LEAVE IT ALONE' had they been found guilty today? Of course not. They would have the right to lodge an appeal if they were aggrieved by the situation. ASADA / WADA have the same right to an appeal if they feel aggrieved whether its convenient to some people or otherwise. Your comments about the way the investigation was run is in line with your previous comments on this matter and are based in ignorance.

Nobody outside ASADA can really comment on the nature of the investigation and a through review by WADA is certainly going to be a welcome thing if it identifies areas where ASADA can improve. A strong and effective anti-doping body is simply a must in this day and age.

As for any appeal, if it goes ahead there will be a number of positive aspects no matter what the result is. A decision outside the confines of the AFL, which has an incredibly poor history in relation to integrity, would not be coloured by the AFL's poor reputation. It would stand as a decision uncompromised by questions of result fixing or cloudy integrity and could only be endorsed by a wider group of supporters.

Currently we have all kinds of conspiracy comments about the result. Whether they are fair or not is irrelevant in many ways, they still exist. They exist because the AFL has a long history of 'arranging' convenient results and this gives the conspiracy theorists far too much ammunition. A decision outside the AFL would cut the ground from under these comments and I'd welcome that.
 
There is no doubt what so ever they used, their captain admitted it, the players implicated will forever been tarnished .
The AFL verdict / lack of action has implicated the whole code which will see many little clubs who are struggling for players numbers and trying to get little Kevin , never recover .
Typical AFL, the code is heading toward a massive end due to lack of players at grass roots level .
 
Quite correct, legal rubbish has been upheld even in player tribunals at finals time.

It was admitted and ASADA was invited by the Bombers to investigate QED

We have to question the damage done by the AFL to our code.

Cousins was never tested positive for drugs, yet the AFL crucified him and the club.

Yet who doubts his innocence?

On the other hand Essendon are angels.

This is a corrupt AFL. It needs a Kerry Packer as did cricket.
 
So angry...if you're an individual player like Saad or Crowley, you can expect to be thrown to the wolves. If you're a team conducting an orchestrated doping program, the AFL will do everything in its power to protect you, their TV rights and their schedule. Players admitted it, text messages show it, Essendon hid it by destroying paperwork.

The saddest thing is Essendon has destroyed another season of AFL because no one is willing to accept responsibility for what happened; not the players, coach, club or AFL. ASADA will appeal, to a less corrupt body, and should eventually win. And we will have to sit through all this for another 12 months.
 
So angry...if you're an individual player like Saad or Crowley, you can expect to be thrown to the wolves. If you're a team conducting an orchestrated doping program, the AFL will do everything in its power to protect you, their TV rights and their schedule. Players admitted it, text messages show it, Essendon hid it by destroying paperwork.

The saddest thing is Essendon has destroyed another season of AFL because no one is willing to accept responsibility for what happened; not the players, coach, club or AFL. ASADA will appeal, to a less corrupt body, and should eventually win. And we will have to sit through all this for another 12 months.

I certainly hope so. Kept me entertained in the off season. Never seen such a spectrum of human folly in one place as EFC. Look at all the strange bed fellows it brought together. I expect ASADA/WADA to appeal.
 
Yes!!!!;) I am soooo happy for Essendon! I always knew that Hird and the players would never intentionally cheat! Well done;) no matter what happens with the pies pair I can still smile today as I knew Bombers weren't guilty all along. So happy for Hirdy, Jobe, Tim and all the players. Suck it ASADA;)

Well said, I hope my fellow essendon supporters have learn something from this ordeal and do not treat you with the same distain as many BF people have done to us and our club, never presume anything and always offer the presumption of innocence unless otherwise proven.

I really hate collingwood but good luck I hope the 2 players in question are cleared if innocent.
 

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Ridiculous stuff. A panel of 3 appointed by the AFL to oversee an AFL clubs anti-doping case, deliberates for 3 minutes relatively speaking and 2 days before the season, come out with a "not guilty" verdict and its over? Add to that the statement also suggests, in respect of the players privacy, they will not make public how they arrived at the verdict. So no one knows why they came out with it and they expect this decision to be taken seriously without WTFs?..

Lets not forget one thing. This is the AFL's anti-doping tribunal. It isnt a supreme court etc...lets see if its over. IMO the ramifications surrounding this in world sport will not allow it to be over. Lets not mention, the NRL and how they crunched the Cronulla sharks with evidence that was deemed less.

THE AFL is a joke..the end
Caro said on Footy Classy that they were ropable North of the border.
 
There is no doubt what so ever they used, their captain admitted it, the players implicated will forever been tarnished .
The AFL verdict / lack of action has implicated the whole code which will see many little clubs who are struggling for players numbers and trying to get little Kevin , never recover .
Typical AFL, the code is heading toward a massive end due to lack of players at grass roots level .
No, it's the fans who will be tarnished. The ones who were so gullible that they believed every line that was fed to them. It's not that hard to understand: Jobe "admitted" to taking AOD9604, a supplement that ASADA had okayed (as verified by Garnham). The fact that ASADA then backflipped (after the event) is hardly EFC's fault. If you ask the governing body for verification and they say "yes" then you can surely feel entitled to use the substance! Which is why (in case you're still confused) ASADA didn't pursue the AOD line.

Your other points are valid, although the reason kids aren't taking up footy needs to be abstracted from your lack of understanding around the ASADA saga!
 
It's hard to comment without seeing the evidence presented by ASADA to the tribunal. Apparently it wasn't sufficient. But it doesn't mean the players are innocent. Hird and Little have a lot to answer for.
Yes it does mean the players are innocent. That's what innocent is. Mother Theresa, if investigated for responsibility for the Holocaust, would have "got off" due to "lack of evidence".
 
Kinda feel like I did on GF day 2000, which probably sounds like an overreaction, but hey I'm not going to fight the feeling. What a brilliant result for those wonderful players. Have been in the face of so many today and can't wait to give it to opposition fans re their gullibility as the season progresses. Plus it's galvanised the team and supporters like nothing else. Go Dons!!!
 
Anywhooooo ... I've had enough of this sorry place. Just popped in from Bomber Blitz to listen to the moaning. We won, you lost, but you're used to that so, hey .... cop yaz.
 
There is no doubt what so ever they used, their captain admitted it, the players implicated will forever been tarnished .
The AFL verdict / lack of action has implicated the whole code which will see many little clubs who are struggling for players numbers and trying to get little Kevin , never recover .
Typical AFL, the code is heading toward a massive end due to lack of players at grass roots level .
Moorabool Valley Little league has folded, despite the towns being a booming area for young families.
Council bank rolling deluxe soccer facilities.
 
The way I see it is AFL found out ASADA is going to search Essendon's documents immediately. AFL tipped off Essendon just in case they had something to hide to get rid of the evidence.

Fast forward to today and these missing documents are the missing link to 100% guilty. AFL is a disgrace of a 'professional' organisation.
 

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