Harvey gone

[jedi mind tricks]

Lol wut.

That was my reaction.

 

[PapaJ]

The reason I considered it unprofessional at the time and still do was the way it was handled and I'm not referring to Lyon in way, shape or form. He was irrelevant to Harvey.

Initially, Harvey was informed of his sacking by a journalist. Its poor on the part of the club to allow that to happen especially after the recruitment phase was handled so discretely. But ok, mistakes can happen. Then they offered to only part pay Harvey's contract, with top up payments offered on his next gig. That wasn't a mistake. That was a considered decision and very poorly done. It took threats of legal action before the club honoured its obligations and paid his contract out. I still regard that as unprofessional, however maybe I'm in the minority here.

Comments fed back to from the club hierarchy also indicated a fairly dismissive attitude towards the club members. I won't go into that too deeply as it puts a friend in the firing line but it's one thing to hold that attitude and quite another to openly say it. Again, thats my view. You're welcome to disagree.

So how do you feel about it these days. If you could go back and choose exactly how it could be done or not done as it were, where would you stand? Just curious.

FWIW, I hear where you're coming from. I definitely felt a bit mixed at the time. No doubt in my mind, the day we got Ross was the best thing that ever happened to this club and I knew it then that we would be a strong repeat finalist side sooner than later. I was stoked with his appointment. But I equally felt bad for Harvey that it couldn't be done in a more amicable way - not sure the circumstance would allow it though. Doesn't mean it couldn't have been done better, but the reality of the situation is that if we wanted Ross at that time, it was going to go down something like the way it did. I don't think there was a lot of option.

Don't know about everything you've written here, but the bolded is definitely wrong. I think you have got mixed up with how Drum got fired: through Adrian Barich.

Most people were upset because Harvey gave a speech to sponsors in the morning and was informed in the afternoon. It was only after Harvey was told that the press got wind of it.

If anything it was too professional.

Comparison to the Drum sacking can't be more stark. He couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag so I was glad to see the back of him, but it's a measure of where we've come from the way that was handled. That image of him being pounced on by the media with poor Drum completely ignorant of what was going on is burned in my memory. That was how not to dismiss a coach lesson 1.

 

[Admiral Byng]

I don't think it could have been done in a different way, given that Lyon and Harvey had the same agent. That's just the circumstances that prevailed at the time.

I felt a bit sorry for Harvey the way it was done, but I don't miss his coaching style and random position changes. The Ross Lyon system relies on structures and roles, you very rarely see him throwing in radical position changes.

 

[tacopavlich]

Lyon seems like he's it.
Next interesting thing to think about is what that means for our 2012 playing list. Are Crowley, Pearce and Walters still in contract limbo? Is MJ's position about to get interesting? Will there be any other current players who will be getting a bit nervous?
Will Lyon become involved in recruiting decisions?
Hmmm...

love this post in retrospect. Four players in the crossroads of their careers under Harvey, all improved significantly with the arrival of Lyon and made consistent best 22 players in a top 4 side. Ibbotson as well a worthy mention. This is his greatest strength as a coach, to extract the best out of any player that's willing to work hard for it.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

I don't miss nutcases.

 

[AAACockburn]

In hindsight. This was the one time I was glad after a few years, Shane deleted all my posts on DL

 

[raffrox]

Good to see that I was always on board with Ross.

Ross is Freo now. Everything before him all seems a bit sad now.

 

[yakka man]

Was an intense day. Don't think there was another footy news day where I had more screens, radios and tabs devoted to a freo related story. The club sent the footy world into a frenzy.

 

[happy_eagle]

Was worried when I got the notification that I had posted in this thread...

As they are saying on SEN, the only reason they would sack him is because they have someone else in line

Was relieved that I didnt go out and make a big statement.....

 

[Spirit Level]

Was worried when I got the notification that I had posted in this thread...




Was relieved that I didnt go out and make a big statement.....

**** I wish you would make one of those archive things for us

 

[Square Peg]

Ross is Freo now. Everything before him all seems a bit sad now.

Look I love Ross too, but that sounds a bit like a Davidian talking about David Koresh

 

[Belnakor]

Then they offered to only part pay Harvey's contract, with top up payments offered on his next gig. That wasn't a mistake. That was a considered decision and very poorly done. It took threats of legal action before the club honoured its obligations and paid his contract out. I still regard that as unprofessional, however maybe I'm in the minority here.

i wasn't aware of this.. that is a bit unprofessional.

I could understand them saying ok Harvey we'll pay you out but we don't have $800k in back pocket so you'll be paid out over the next 6 months etc.

 

[raffrox]

Look I love Ross too, but that sounds a bit like a Davidian talking about David Koresh

What's your point?

Seriously though. I loved the posts on this thread about "that's not Freo style of footy."

Ross has basically changed the culture of our club in 4 years. No mean feat.

Unlike the Saints I think it will stick around after he leaves (and Pav takes over as coach after a 5 year assistant apprenticeship after retiring from playing in 2020).

 

[GordonT]

Pav takes over as coach after a 5 year assistant apprenticeship after retiring from playing in 2020).

An early retirement so he can start his coaching career early? smart move .

 

[basashi]

Good to see that I was always on board with Ross.

Ross is Freo now. Everything before him all seems a bit sad now.

I still stand by my comment, too:

Sad for Harvey but

Good for Freo.

Lyon is more likely to take the team further over the next three to four years.

I am a foundation member and this is precisely the sort of harsh but correct decision that has been lacking in the disappointing wasted years thus far.

Glad to see I finally jagged a good call!

 

[freo84]

I joined BF in 2012 after stalking the Freo board for about 2 seasons. I said to my missus at the end of 2011 that "I have this gut feeling that Harvey will get sacked. He just isn't the guy to take us to a grand final." 2 weeks later I was at work and she rings me and says "Well you were right. Harvey has been sacked." I was actually a bit shocked and had a little rant on FB when I got home about how Freo could have shown some compassion and not sacked him right after his speech about the future. Then I heard we were getting Ross Lyon and I couldn't have been more happy. I knew that if anyone could turn our list around it was him and so far he hasn't done anything to prove me wrong.

 

[clogged]

I said to my missus at the end of 2011 that "I have this gut feeling that Harvey will get sacked. He just isn't the guy to take us to a grand final." 2 weeks later I was at work and she rings me and says "Well you were right. Harvey has been sacked."

I was the same - I thought Harvey had a "sackable" season in 2011, but my fear was they'd either bring in another rookie to replace him, or some former coach like Malthouse at Carlton or Eade at the Suns (or going further back, Blight at St Kilda or Pagan at Carlton) who was finished and had lost touch with the game.

Getting in a guy who was already a coach and at the top of his game was the biggest coup in footy.

 

[freo84]

I was the same - I thought Harvey had a "sackable" season in 2011, but my fear was they'd either bring in another rookie to replace him, or some former coach like Malthouse at Carlton or Eade at the Suns (or going further back, Blight at St Kilda or Pagan at Carlton) who was finished and had lost touch with the game.

Getting in a guy who was already a coach and at the top of his game was the biggest coup in footy.

To be honest though I hated Ross when he coached the Saints because he was everything I wanted for Fremantle and the jealously turned to hate . His team showed no fears of playing anywhere, they played a consistent brand of footy, and it always appeared that they knew where to be and what to do. Go back and watch a Mark Harvey coached game and it's almost complete chaos compared to now. I hope that Ross Lyon goes down in history as Fremantle's greatest recruit and as a multiple premiership coach because he deserves it.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

What happens if Freo don't win a gf under Ross and we end up slowly sliding down the ladder?

Will we be calling for Ross to leave?

 

[NicoNicoNico]

In Bond and Steves we trust

The bump is not dead.

 

[clogged]

What happens if Freo don't win a gf under Ross and we end up slowly sliding down the ladder?

Will we be calling for Ross to leave?

Depends. I expect a slide down the ladder at some point over the next two years. If he can introduce youngsters and still keep a healthy winning rate (40-50% over a season) then he's definitely worth retaining. If the bottom completely falls out of the club, then he isn't. If he looks for quick fixes through trading and free agency, to keep the best 22 'mature aged' then Freo should move him on.

 

[Arcassius]

We have a list management committee who take care of the draft and trade model - coachy does the coaching.

sure he has a say, but it's presumptuous to suggest he has control and final decision on our list management

 

[clogged]

We have a list management committee who take care of the draft and trade model - coachy does the coaching.

sure he has a say, but it's presumptuous to suggest he has control and final decision on our list management

Club has not been averse to seeking mature recruits, they simply haven't turned out as useful. However the club hasn't been really tested for turnover in the key positions. When Sandilands, Pavlich and McPharlin are all gone, the club has to make its first difficult decisions in years for how to manage that situation - plug on with understudies, or seek remedies via mature age recruitment from other clubs. This is where Lyon's say will be key.

The draft and trade model has worked so long as Pavlich, Sandilands and McPharlin have been available. Their retirement may break the model.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Club has not been averse to seeking mature recruits, they simply haven't turned out as useful. However the club hasn't been really tested for turnover in the key positions. When Sandilands, Pavlich and McPharlin are all gone, the club has to make its first difficult decisions in years for how to manage that situation - plug on with understudies, or seek remedies via mature age recruitment from other clubs. This is where Lyon's say will be key.

The draft and trade model has worked so long as Pavlich, Sandilands and McPharlin have been available. Their retirement may break the model.

This is true and you only have to look at a large quantity of first round picks GWS have who can't crack a game and may not in the future.

If for instance one if them suits Freo's list model and we don't have to pay overs I have no problem with that trade. A bit different than getting a player in their twilight. It also depends on the depth of that years draft.

 

[basashi]

I was the same - I thought Harvey had a "sackable" season in 2011, but my fear was they'd either bring in another rookie to replace him, or some former coach like Malthouse at Carlton or Eade at the Suns (or going further back, Blight at St Kilda or Pagan at Carlton) who was finished and had lost touch with the game.

Getting in a guy who was already a coach and at the top of his game was the biggest coup in footy.

Sackable yes if there is a better coach available. There were worse candidates floating around.

I would have put it more as "replaceable" than sackable. Just because an incumbent is not doing something specifically wrong doesn't mean that they should be immune to being replaced with a better available candidate.

Kind of like dating.