Social Religion, Politics and absolutely nothing to do with footy

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Galaxy

Galaxy

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Geelong Cats - Nakia Cockatoo Player Sponsor 2016
Sep 30, 2015
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Strangled Cat said:
With all due respect mate, there isn't anything you could tell me that I haven't already heard. I respect you as a poster, but engaging in a philosophical or religious debate isn't something that I'm interested in doing. A decade ago - yeah, I would. Now, not at all. I've examined all the "evidence" to the point where rehashing old and tired (from my perspective) arguments just doesn't do anything for me.

I'll end my post by saying that when the day arrives that science proves the existence of an almighty deity, an omniscient and omnipotent one as has been described the Abrahamic religions, then and only then will it not become something worthy of beleif, but something which must be accepted as fact.
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I have a friend who's an fwit and claims he's apart of the darkness and is immortal - how do i wake that idiot up to reality
 
Galaxy said:
I have a friend who's an fwit and claims he's apart of the darkness and is immortal - how do i wake that idiot up to reality
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He'll wake up to reality on his own eventually as a part of "growing up" or won't, any logical arguments are counter productive, since that belief isn't based on logic. If you consider him a friend it doesn't really matter in the end what crazy things people believe as long as it doesn't harm anyone. If he thinks he's immortal take him sky diving, ask the person who he's is connected to to pretend that their parachute doesn't work. I wonder how strong he'll believe as he's falling the the ground.
 

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10lana said:
He'll wake up to reality on his own eventually as a part of "growing up" or won't, any logical arguments are counter productive, since that belief isn't based on logic. If you consider him a friend it doesn't really matter in the end what crazy things people believe as long as it doesn't harm anyone. If he thinks he's immortal take him sky diving, ask the person who he's is connected to to pretend that their parachute doesn't work. I wonder how strong he'll believe as he's falling the the ground.
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He genuinely talks as if he truly believes that he is immortal. Never stops going on about it. He also says things like how eats cat liver and drinks pigeon blood out of their skull. Sniffs the petty (petrol), smokes ice occasionally and weed daily and takes all different types of other s**t. The dudes absolutely rooted but I think of him as a bro.
 
Galaxy said:
He genuinely talks as if he truly believes that he is immortal. Never stops going on about it. He also says things like how eats cat liver and drinks pigeon blood out of their skull. Sniffs the petty (petrol), smokes ice occasionally and weed daily and takes all different types of other s**t. The dudes absolutely rooted but I think of him as a bro.
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These are much larger problems than just belief, though changing his belief might help, it sounds to me that it is all just escapism(from what specifically I don't know, but I'd reckon that you'd know) . There's not much a person can do to help as a friend in these kinds of circumstances. Most things would just emotionally drain you and not actually help him get better. The most you can do is not enable him, his beliefs or habits. It's hard to watch someone you care about be self destructive, but the only one that can stop them is them (or perhaps an expensive long term stint at a rehab clinic).
 
Strangled Cat said:
I'll end my post by saying that when the day arrives that science proves the existence of an almighty deity, an omniscient and omnipotent one as has been described the Abrahamic religions, then and only then will it not become something worthy of beleif, but something which must be accepted as fact.
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(Mods: feel free to move to another thread as appropriate)

My bet is yet more deities will be slayed as science discovers more. Every discovery of the last 400 years has exploded the claims by various tribal myths, with luck the species will eventually realise we don't need an imaginary friend to keep us safe at night.
 
Im not seeing it within 5 years sorry people. By acquiring these players we have put ourselves back into contention. I just dont have enough faith in our younger players.

Our best is great but without rapid improvement in the next 2 years from some younger guys. We will slowly become less relevant again. I think the strongest thing about our premiership years were that our stars were all within 3 years of each other. Sure we had some older guys but this team is far more spread out in age.

Now ik a huge advocate that age isnt a factor but sometimes it can be a good determinant for sucess, ill give it that.

Our current A graders - Selsy (getting older), Danger, Taylor and Hawkins. Possibly Enright aswell.

B graders - Motlop, Duncan, Hendo, Lonergan, Blitz, Guth, Cads (the 2 latter being just there imo)

Really need some progression from our youngens, and to find a REALLY dangerous small forward to crumb from our big forwards.

forgive me if I forgot some players.
 
Strangled Cat said:
With all due respect mate, there isn't anything you could tell me that I haven't already heard. I respect you as a poster, but engaging in a philosophical or religious debate isn't something that I'm interested in doing. A decade ago - yeah, I would. Now, not at all. I've examined all the "evidence" to the point where rehashing old and tired (from my perspective) arguments just doesn't do anything for me.

I'll end my post by saying that when the day arrives that science proves the existence of an almighty deity, an omniscient and omnipotent one as has been described the Abrahamic religions, then and only then will it not become something worthy of beleif, but something which must be accepted as fact.
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Yeah. I also like you as a poster, and don't want to fight or offend you or others.

But I am not convinced (after 40+ years of university level study and Xian life and ministry) that people know this stuff even remotely as well as they think /say they do. Theology and its associated fields are massive, massive areas. The greatest minds of many millenniums have thought, written and discussed these issues. There are literally millions and millions of works dedicated to God and Xianity. Library's full of profound, world changing literature. Not to mention billions of lives transformed. Only our pride (not a dig at you) lets us think we have it all sown up.

For example - science can't prove or disprove God - by definition. It deals with the material. God is immaterial. So you will be waiting a while. Science is the wrong magisterium, even if there may be some possible overlap.
 
CharacterFirst said:
Yeah. I also like you as a poster, and don't want to fight or offend you or others.

But I am not convinced (after 40+ years of university level study and Xian life and ministry) that people know this stuff even remotely as well as they think /say they do. Theology and its associated fields are massive, massive areas. The greatest minds of many millenniums have thought, written and discussed these issues. There are literally millions and millions of works dedicated to God and Xianity. Library's full of profound, world changing literature. Not to mention billions of lives transformed. Only our pride (not a dig at you) lets us think we have it all sown up.

For example - science can't prove or disprove God - by definition. It deals with the material. God is immaterial. So you will be waiting a while. Science is the wrong magisterium, even if there may be some possible overlap.
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And for all the these writings over many millennia, how many of them contain a scrap of evidence to suggest the existence of a deity? Of course, none! Science won't prove the existence of something that can't be proven, which is why my default position regarding religion and life in general has always been that it's incumbent upon those of whom present a new idea or theory to prove its existence or at least its validity, not the other way around. Unfortunately, Christianity has been around for over 2000 years, so we can hardly question those of whom "presented" Christianity right here and now.

I delved into "Theology and associated fields" only as deeply as I needed to in order to ascertain that none of it provides even a skerrick of evidence to prove that the claims, musings or any other texts contained in any such literature has been proven as fact by adopting scientific methods. Which is why it is my opinion that all that religion does is promote an insular, intolerant and self-righteous mentality. People don't need religion to derive their morality from, nor do they need to devote themselves to a deity fashioned by someone throughout a period in history which just so happened to suit their agenda at the time.

You talk about "billions of lives transformed"; What about the billions of lives lost in the most callous and brutal ways imaginable? All for what? All for a god that we can't even prove exists. If religion helps people live a more fulfilled life, fine. But it doesn't mean that it's correct. Most religious people are peaceful people, but it's not through religion which we derive our core morality from, so those same poeple would be good people with or without the delusion of a false purpose. My biggest issue with religion is the platform it provides for psychopaths with grandiose agendas to carry out mass genocide in the name of a higher being.
 

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10lana said:
CharacterFirst
Strangled Cat

before this devolves even further into a s**t fight here, there is a whole board devoted to s**t fights. So if you want to continue can you do it there.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/forums/society-religion-and-politics.46/

Though in most likelihood, you're not going to convince either of each other so it probably for the best if you just shake hands and pretend that the whole discussion never happened.
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Sure - but the SRP board is toxic and "unpostable" for any genuine discussion.

The internet/typing is usually also a clumsy and tedious way to discuss deep and important issues such as this.

I am happy to leave it at that, and trust the rest to God. :)
 
CharacterFirst said:
Sure - but the SRP board is toxic and "unpostable" for any genuine discussion.

The internet/typing is usually also a clumsy and tedious way to discuss deep and important issues such as this.

I am happy to leave it at that, and trust the rest to God. :)
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You can PM each other if so inclined. But these kind of discussions generally end with the two parties resenting each other.
 
Strangled Cat said:
And for all the these writings over many millennia, how many of them contain a scrap of evidence to suggest the existence of a deity? Of course, none! Science won't prove the existence of something that can't be proven, which is why my default position regarding religion and life in general has always been that it's incumbent upon those of whom present a new idea or theory to prove its existence or at least its validity, not the other way around. Unfortunately, Christianity has been around for over 2000 years, so we can hardly question those of whom "presented" Christianity right here and now.

I delved into "Theology and associated fields" only as deeply as I needed to in order to ascertain that none of it provides even a skerrick of evidence to prove that the claims, musings or any other texts contained in any such literature has been proven as fact by adopting scientific methods. Which is why it is my opinion that all that religion does is promote an insular, intolerant and self-righteous mentality. People don't need religion to derive their morality from, nor do they need to devote themselves to a deity fashioned by someone throughout a period in history which just so happened to suit their agenda at the time.

You talk about "billions of lives transformed"; What about the billions of lives lost in the most callous and brutal ways imaginable? All for what? All for a god that we can't even prove exists. If religion helps people live a more fulfilled life, fine. But it doesn't mean that it's correct. Most religious people are peaceful people, but it's not through religion which we derive our core morality from, so those same poeple would be good people with or without the delusion of a false purpose. My biggest issue with religion is the platform it provides for psychopaths with grandiose agendas to carry out mass genocide in the name of a higher being.
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Mate.

I like you. I sympathise with you living with an Adelaide supporter (;)), and love your passion for the Cats.

Scientific evidence isn't the only form of evidence That sort of thinking is called Scientism - its a discredited position according to all sides of such debates. Historical/legal/testimony are three other types of evidence, just off the top of my head. I genuinely don't want to sound patronising. :$

As I said, people think they know so much more than they do.

Let me encourage you to delve deeper. Start with Mark's gospel. :thumbsu:

Over and out.

CharacterFirst.
 
Strangled Cat said:
And for all the these writings over many millennia, how many of them contain a scrap of evidence to suggest the existence of a deity? Of course, none! Science won't prove the existence of something that can't be proven, which is why my default position regarding religion and life in general has always been that it's incumbent upon those of whom present a new idea or theory to prove its existence or at least its validity, not the other way around. Unfortunately, Christianity has been around for over 2000 years, so we can hardly question those of whom "presented" Christianity right here and now.

I delved into "Theology and associated fields" only as deeply as I needed to in order to ascertain that none of it provides even a skerrick of evidence to prove that the claims, musings or any other texts contained in any such literature has been proven as fact by adopting scientific methods. Which is why it is my opinion that all that religion does is promote an insular, intolerant and self-righteous mentality. People don't need religion to derive their morality from, nor do they need to devote themselves to a deity fashioned by someone throughout a period in history which just so happened to suit their agenda at the time.

You talk about "billions of lives transformed"; What about the billions of lives lost in the most callous and brutal ways imaginable? All for what? All for a god that we can't even prove exists. If religion helps people live a more fulfilled life, fine. But it doesn't mean that it's correct. Most religious people are peaceful people, but it's not through religion which we derive our core morality from, so those same poeple would be good people with or without the delusion of a false purpose. My biggest issue with religion is the platform it provides for psychopaths with grandiose agendas to carry out mass genocide in the name of a higher being.
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Nailed it
 
CharacterFirst said:
Mate.

I like you. I sympathise with you living with an Adelaide supporter (;)), and love your passion for the Cats.

Scientific evidence isn't the only form of evidence That sort of thinking is called Scientism - its a discredited position according to all sides of such debates. Historical/legal/testimony are three other types of evidence, just off the top of my head. I genuinely don't want to sound patronising. :$

As I said, people think they know so much more than they do.

Let me encourage you to delve deeper. Start with Mark's gospel. :thumbsu:

Over and out.

CharacterFirst.
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If your argument relies on discrediting scientific evidence, which basically means empirical evidence, then you haven't a leg to stand on.

Maybe it's better you don't sign off by advising people to go read the bible. It's a bit provocative, obviously.
 
10lana said:
...... these kind of discussions generally end with the two parties resenting each other.
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You are right, they can end that way.

It's often b/c people are posting from hidden emotional hurts and needs they are not even aware of.

That is why issues such as gambling, sexuality, racism, faith etc, draw such passion and fire from people.

Its ironic some people want to proclaim their logical and rational detachment, but end up spewing emotional bile.

One must stay gracious and respectful. It is a practiced and learned thing. I certainly have got it wrong in the past, and still do sometimes.

Good luck for the POTY. I nominated you. :thumbsu:
 
Moggy said:
If your argument relies on discrediting scientific evidence, which basically means empirical evidence, then you haven't a leg to stand on.

Maybe it's better you don't sign off by advising people to go read the bible. It's a bit provocative, obviously.
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I think you may have misunderstood the point re scientism.

There should be nothing provocative about encouraging someone to read the bible. Its the most widely read and printed book in history. Tops the best sellers every year. :confused:
 
CharacterFirst said:
I think you may have misunderstood the point re scientism.

There should be nothing provocative about encouraging someone to read the bible. Its the most widely read and printed book in history. Tops the best sellers every year. :confused:
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Testimonial evidence suggests there is something provocative about encouraging someone to read the bible. Or does that only count when thumping the bible not when dispelling it.
 
Guys, sure there's an interesting conversation to be had about Mark's manic and depressing Gospel in which there is no resurrection and John's Gospel which contains some of the most sublime writing, in any language - accompanied by a wonderful "High Christology". However, metaphysics nor science have a place in this thread which is about my man-love for Patrick and the GFC. So get a room and I hope the fact I've reported all your posts doesn't piss you off :D
 
Strangled Cat said:
With all due respect mate, there isn't anything you could tell me that I haven't already heard. I respect you as a poster, but engaging in a philosophical or religious debate isn't something that I'm interested in doing. A decade ago - yeah, I would. Now, not at all. I've examined all the "evidence" to the point where rehashing old and tired (from my perspective) arguments just doesn't do anything for me.

I'll end my post by saying that when the day arrives that science proves the existence of an almighty deity, an omniscient and omnipotent one as has been described the Abrahamic religions, then and only then will it not become something worthy of beleif, but something which must be accepted as fact.
Click to expand...

Ouch..
 
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