Oops Chris

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Plugger35 said:
I've got no idea what mansplaining is, is that something you heard from Charlie Pickering one night?

Maybe you could respond to my post with a sensible argument rather than some stupid throwaway label to score more PC points.
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What is there to respond to? You claiming you know more about what female journalists experience than female journalists do? Nah. The stupidity's already done. I don't even need to add water.
 
Plugger35 said:
I've got no idea what mansplaining is, is that something you heard from Charlie Pickering one night?

Maybe you could respond to my post with a sensible argument rather than some stupid throwaway label to score more PC points.
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"Shes hot and therefore she deserves it" or the great "I'd put up with some sexual harassment for her sweet gig" is not a sensible point to begin with. Also "I'm a man and here is why women have it easy" is the definition of mansplaining so MWNN is right.
 
ManWithNoName said:
So imagine if almost every day you were at work you had to experience this? How sick of it would you be? You have to read about it. They have to live it.
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This is the point really.

It is a 2 minute interview to us. We can look at it, be amused or be taken aback. If that happened to us, we would brush it off, move on, who cares? Why wouldn't she? Why don't the other female journos see it that way?

In all this posturing about giving him the death penalty, or even making it all about Gayle being demonised, the larger message keeps getting ignored and the voice of the ONLY people who can accurately communicate how this makes them feel is basically ignored.

Maybe a dumbing down of the questions?

Did Mel McLaughlin have a right to feel disappointed about what happened? Why or why not?

Did the other female journalists that commented on this have a right to be upset with this incident or similar incidents they have experienced? Why or why not?

Reducing it to Gayle being harshly dealt with as though it was a bigger 'crime' than it was and the 'outrage' over a single minor incident feels like manipulating the bigger issue to something more manageable to dismiss.

I realise the counter claim might be made as to what I just said about manipulation but let's not forget the words of those that do have a right to comment before we go down that track.

As Chief says, that Grandstand interview is a must read/listen. Also recommend searching for the thoughts of US female sports journalists on what they have faced.

Mel .... she says she has been respected until now so doesn't feel it has been a big problem for her personally, but she is glad it is talked about. She is also keen to put the focus back on how she is a respected journalist, not a constant victim. Nobody wants to be remembered as a victim.
 

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ManWithNoName said:
Can you list some examples of said outcry to the proportion you're claiming?
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It's very strange to watch people condemn the outrage or outcry as excessive while making such an extreme analogy to describe that outcry. Those who take issue with it are guilty of hyperbole apparently. I mean ... what?
 
phantom13 said:
Exec - "Hey Mel, you know how you are a respected cricket journalist can you go interview Gayle about Cricket and his innings"
Mel - "Sure..." "Chris well played, had to go aggressive there to get the run rate up?"
Gayle - "Dont blush baby"

And thats Tens fault is it?

Now from here people are doing two things
1- "Awww Ten painted him up to be a playboy so what was he meant to do"... Really? If i said Blackcat is a thug can you use that as an excuse if you king hit someone? Nah, you cant.
2- She is a pretty girl so she should expect it. Which most people are pointing out is the crux of the issue here.

For full clarity i dont think in isolation its that bad (i think i even said if you take out the "don't blush baby" its pretty harmless, stupid but generally harmless) but deflecting the blame off of Chris or away from the sexism that female journos in male dominated sports face on a daily basis (which is what blaming Ten or anyone else is doing) is a problem. The incident also isn't in isolation anymore, the thing has gotten huge, fast legs now. He has form in this area, he gave a piss poor apology and the backwards misogynist views of many, many people are coming to the fore.
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but if Gayle has the reputation (I dont doubt this), then, what is the MO to handle him. How can an interviewer shoot him down. There must be some proactive technique in handling a difficult mark.

The behaviour is on a spectrum. And Gayle has been the King D!ck in the Caribbean... and when they tour here with the cricket team, they are still feted. This is the context. And Ponting woulda been on that Tour in the 90s when one of the captains had 50 partners on the Tour. And Warnie's appetite. These elements inform the context. And the cricket journo's stayed schtum on such "private matters" much like the cycling journo corps would never talk of the open secret doping in the 90s(which never changed just went further underground). Why do I have a double standard with the press corps in Canberra and not divulging the peccadilloes of the politicians in Canberra? Well, self evident, I made a couple of posts on this matter.

My main concern with Ten is the editing suite and the producers... not the fact that MM was given the role to interview CG. When the interview goes off track, this is like Luke Darcy and the dump button when Eddie's Hot Breakfast talks of marketing King Kong with Goodes. This is why there is a dump button. You can use the dump button.

Then the host Mark Howard might navigate it with finesse. But like I have said before, I remember him getting into the model Karolina K's personal space when she was out here about a decade ago, so the chuckle from the commentary box would be par for the course. Just like Kelli Underwood would never have got a look in with commentating AFL games for 7. (or was it 10?)
 
ManWithNoName said:
What is there to respond to? You claiming you know more about what female journalists experience than female journalists do? Nah. The stupidity's already done. I don't even need to add water.
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You were insinuating that female journalists experience that sort of thing almost every day. ie. that they get sexually harassed almost every day, the stupidity is all your own buddy as that is a ridiculous over exaggeration.

How many other instances can you bring up where Mel McLaughlin was sexually harassed at work or even flirted with like she was with Gayle, I can guarantee it wouldn't be anywhere near almost every day.

phantom13 said:
"Shes hot and therefore she deserves it" or the great "I'd put up with some sexual harassment for her sweet gig" is not a sensible point to begin with. Also "I'm a man and here is why women have it easy" is the definition of mansplaining so MWNN is right.
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You're putting words in my mouth, I never said she's hot and she deserves it or the other rubbish you've just made up and if you agree with MWNN there is no point arguing with you further as like him you twist people's comments to further your own agenda.
 
Right blackcat

Para 1 - The point is she shouldnt have to. If she asked him about his swinging libido and reputation thats different but she didnt. She asked Cricket questions so answer them the same way you would a man.

Para 2 - Im sure the same sort of stuff happened in the 60's. Remember way back when black people couldnt play cricket, or women werent allowed into the pavillion at lords. What happened 25 years ago doesnt make a lick of difference here.

Para 3 - It's live, not sure how the dump button works exactly but either way, again go to Para 1. Its his responsibility (as it is with everyone 10 interviews) not to behave like a twat (or in this case a sexist, rude, unprofessional twat)

Para 4 - So Howie was inappropriate once, not sure what that has to do with this?
 
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Chief said:
I don't get it.

Do you mean he started to believe his own press?
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He's well known to be a party boy and pants man off the field. The man himself certainly doesn't make any secret of it.

Particularly in light of the comments from Neroli Meadows and Chris Rogers yesterday, if Chris Gayle's behaviour is so abhorrent and he's such a douchebag, what are the Renegades (or anyone else) doing signing him in the first place? Why do journo's in all forms of media constantly play up his off field persona if it doesn't mesh with their own moral standing? Especially Ch 10 commentators frequent references to 'groin strains' and the like. Where was all the moral grandstanding before he even signed for a team and set foot in this country?

Chris Gayle clearly gives no ****s what people think of how he lives his life. He also clearly has a more than healthy ego. If the media etc are going to blow smoke up his arse, it's no surprise a situation like this would happen. I'd be surprised if we all haven't behaved in what others would consider out of line at times when we've had overinflated egos. Sure, not all of us have had a nibble at an attractive journo of the opposite sex on live TV, but then not all of us are T20 superstars like Chris Gayle. The principle is relative though.

Like the old saying goes 'Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it'.
 
Plugger35 said:
You're putting words in my mouth, I never said she's hot and she deserves it or the other rubbish you've just made up and if you agree with MWNN there is no point arguing with you further as like him you twist people's comments to further your own agenda.
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I admit i paraphased but not much. "she has the job cause she is pretty, helps she isn't stupid but it's mainly cause she is pretty" and "most people would put up with that for her gig" were your points and everyone knows it.
 
Seems to me that none of this exonerates Gayle. In fact the defence here seems to suggest that Gayle wasn't joking so that goes out the window. It only serves to suggest that Channel 10 have not done their due diligence or allowed something to happen for entertainment purposes.

None of it goes towards whether McLaughlin should or should not be offended or whether female journalists are right or wrong as to whether it is an issue.
 
Plugger35 said:
You were insinuating that female journalists experience that sort of thing almost every day. ie. that they get sexually harassed almost every day, the stupidity is all your own buddy as that is a ridiculous over exaggeration.
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That is what other journalists are saying.

Do you think they are lying? What do they have to gain from lying? Do you think his team mate is lying?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-05/transcript-chris-gayle-neroli-meadows-melinda-farrell/7068652
 
phantom13 said:
I admit i paraphased but not much. "she has the job cause she is pretty, helps she isn't stupid but it's mainly cause she is pretty" and "most people would put up with that for her gig" were your points and everyone knows it.
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Actually you didn't just paraphrase, you made things up that I didn't say and you're still doing it so it's not worth arguing with you further.
 

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Plugger35 said:
You were insinuating that female journalists experience that sort of thing almost every day. ie. that they get sexually harassed almost every day, the stupidity is all your own buddy as that is a ridiculous over exaggeration.
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One of the women on the ABC discussion claimed it happens ten times a day.
 
blackcat said:
but if Gayle has the reputation (I dont doubt this), then, what is the MO to handle him. How can an interviewer shoot him down. There must be some proactive technique in handling a difficult mark.
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All well and good. How about we just expect him to behave with respect and take it from there? If he ****s up, expect that he will apologise properly and fully. If he doesn't, don't hire him.

But none of that is consistent with the profit motive.
 
Plugger35 said:
She's a very good female sports reporter but no doubt one of the reasons she has landed these sweet media gigs is because of her attractive looks and unfortunately the downside of that is that she will probably cop some unwanted flirting from guys in her line of work

but on the whole I don't think she has it too bad.

I would gladly swap places with her to earn the sort of money she is on and travel to the sports events she does and I'm sure a lot of people would do the same.
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In hindsight i barely paraphrased at all.
 
Plugger35 said:
You were insinuating that female journalists experience that sort of thing almost every day. ie. that they get sexually harassed almost every day, the stupidity is all your own buddy as that is a ridiculous over exaggeration.
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Ron The Bear said:
One of the women on the ABC discussion claimed it happened ten times a day.
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What makes people distrust what she says? Also, of course it would not be exactly ten times a day, every single day. Take that as a ball-park figure. Qualitative rather than precisely quantitative.
 
Chief said:
That is what other journalists are saying.

Do you think they are lying? What do they have to gain from lying? Do you think his team mate is lying?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-05/transcript-chris-gayle-neroli-meadows-melinda-farrell/7068652
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It seems strange that they are saying that the sort of behaviour Chris Gayle is guilty of is such a regular occurrence for them, I watch a lot of sport and see a lot of female journos conduct a lot of interviews and I don't see that sort of thing happening very often.

If it happened as often as they say wouldn't there be more overblown controversies like the Chris Gayle one? The fact this has become such a huge story would suggest it isn't a very common occurrence.
 
Plugger35 said:
You were insinuating that female journalists experience that sort of thing almost every day. ie. that they get sexually harassed almost every day, the stupidity is all your own buddy as that is a ridiculous over exaggeration.

How many other instances can you bring up where Mel McLaughlin was sexually harassed at work or even flirted with like she was with Gayle, I can guarantee it wouldn't be anywhere near almost every day.
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Do you know why I insinuated that? Because female journalists have said so in the last few days. So yeah, I'm going to go with their claims given they're the ones living it over your imagination.
 
Plugger35 said:
It seems strange that they are saying that the sort of behaviour Chris Gayle is guilty of is such a regular occurrence for them, I watch a lot of sport and see a lot of female journos conduct a lot of interviews and I don't see that sort of thing happening very often.

If it happened as often as they say wouldn't there be more overblown controversies like the Chris Gayle one? The fact this has become such a huge story would suggest it isn't a very common occurrence.
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"I don't see that sort of thing happening very often"

Remember what I said about you claiming to know more about what female journalists experience than they do? Yeah, that.
 
- It was a bit of harmless fun
- She is hot and works in the media so she has to cop this
- He is a cricketer and can do what he wants in interviews
- Everyone is racist
- Not harassment cause its not a workplace

We can add

- I have no idea what its like to be belittled in my workplace everyday but i reckon i would put up with it so she should as well... baby.
 
Chief said:
All well and good. How about we just expect him to behave with respect and take it from there? If he ****s up, expect that he will apologise properly and fully. If he doesn't, don't hire him.

But none of that is consistent with the profit motive.
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not that simple. Gayle is 36, and I dare say his nocturnal partners this BB season will outnumber his age. His actions are enabled and hagiographised [sic] on multiple levels. He is not Kobe Bryant and OJ Simpson who walked free from rape and murder. He was just clumsy, borderline disrespectful, and a boor. Sam Newman has behaved this way for two decades on prime time TV and is lauded for his persona. And enriched.

How did Gayle act like this? It is perfectly understandable if people seek to unpick the layers and all the elements. By placing Chris Gayle in a 2016 corporate urban workplace environment, makes this issue moot.

But be honest that he committed no crime, but he has been held to a standard that Warne and Franklin and Russell Brand wont be. But this is the way of the world, he is gonna be crucified for this act that was merely very clumsy at worst. I am sure Kelli Underwood would like the opportunities afforded to MM, or Pauline Menczer like similar opportunities.
 
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