Religion

[blue gunslinger]

All religions are based on lies and "bull shirt"?? Big call...

xL call and gets around the moral guardians of the site

 

[james Dean]

Your qoute of the quran was actually in a battle called badr, so it was relevant for the time, not today... People travelled for miles to kill the muslims but that isn't relevant is it? Your quotes come from a time of war where people we're killing muslims everywhere, So I still don't understand how it's dangerous today?? I'm a heavy believer, does that make me dangerous? I'm not trying to be smart, I think we are judged unfairly nowadays... I'm a law abiding citizen and a true muslim like most and love this country therefore I don't think its fair to be put in a category that the extremists are in...

You're getting defensive over nothing, I have no problem with Muslims, I've worked with, studied with and went to school with plenty of them and they are like you, peaceful and law abiding citizens. If you read my original quote I said i have issues with the scripture, because religious lunatics take it literally and that is why you see atrocious incidents like Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, and countless others across Europe and the Middle East. You can't deny that there is an epidemic across the world when it comes to Islamic terrorism, and they are getting their teachings from scripture.

You're right you never said you had the answer to the origins of the universe but you were also very quick to rule out the possibilty of a creator and rely solely on science which is merely a theory that is unreliable and unproven ( Darwinian theory)... Knowledge of the earths shape was impossible to predict 1600 years ago, along with the explanation of the embryo and haloclines and many other things... Do you regard them as prediction or fact?

I rule out the fact that there is an invisible man in the sky who runs everything, I can't rule out the possibility. To quote Richard Dawkins, I can't rule out the existence of magic fairies either, but I certainly don't believe that they exist. How can you say Darwins theory of evolution is unproven and unreliable? It is scientific fact. There has been physical evidence of evolution recorded, see The peppered Moth for example; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution

Science has made religious texts redundant? Give me a scientific fact that has disproved the quran? Just one will do...

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran. Take your pick

I just want to ask without being rude or silly, but don't you ask yourself, how is the universe so perfect and the fact that we landed on the only planet that we can actually survive on? And have all the things we need? The fact that we have brains and eyes and a heart that all work for a purpose? How can that come from nothing, let's not say god, but a creator... There must be a creator to all of this, to me that is the only logical explanation... Something never came from nothing!!

There are billions upon billions of planets in the universe, 10^24 I believe with as many as 40 billion earth like planets. Did God create all of these as well? If nothing comes from nothing is such a laughable suggestion, where did God come from? We as humans are not smart enough to know how the world originated yet. Look at how far we have come in knowledge of the universe over the past 500 years, and our knowledge continues to grow. We don't know everything in 2016, one day we might.

 

[blue gunslinger]

You're getting defensive over nothing, I have no problem with Muslims, I've worked with, studied with and went to school with plenty of them and they are like you, peaceful and law abiding citizens. If you read my original quote I said i have issues with the scripture, because religious lunatics take it literally and that is why you see atrocious incidents like Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, and countless others across Europe and the Middle East. You can't deny that there is an epidemic across the world when it comes to Islamic terrorism, and they are getting their teachings from scripture.


I rule out the fact that there is an invisible man in the sky who runs everything, I can't rule out the possibility. To quote Richard Dawkins, I can't rule out the existence of magic fairies either, but I certainly don't believe that they exist. How can you say Darwins theory of evolution is unproven and unreliable? It is scientific fact. There has been physical evidence of evolution recorded, see The peppered Moth for example; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution


https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran. Take your pick


There are billions upon billions of planets in the universe, 10^24 I believe with as many as 40 billion earth like planets. Did God create all of these as well? If nothing comes from nothing is such a laughable suggestion, where did God come from? We as humans are not smart enough to know how the world originated yet. Look at how far we have come in knowledge of the universe over the past 500 years, and our knowledge continues to grow. We don't know everything in 2016, one day we might.

The more we strive for perfection the further it recedes- we will never know everything. I will never be able to know how a women's mind works

 

[Moe B]

You're getting defensive over nothing, I have no problem with Muslims, I've worked with, studied with and went to school with plenty of them and they are like you, peaceful and law abiding citizens. If you read my original quote I said i have issues with the scripture, because religious lunatics take it literally and that is why you see atrocious incidents like Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, and countless others across Europe and the Middle East. You can't deny that there is an epidemic across the world when it comes to Islamic terrorism, and they are getting their teachings from scripture.


I rule out the fact that there is an invisible man in the sky who runs everything, I can't rule out the possibility. To quote Richard Dawkins, I can't rule out the existence of magic fairies either, but I certainly don't believe that they exist. How can you say Darwins theory of evolution is unproven and unreliable? It is scientific fact. There has been physical evidence of evolution recorded, see The peppered Moth for example; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution


https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran. Take your pick


There are billions upon billions of planets in the universe, 10^24 I believe with as many as 40 billion earth like planets. Did God create all of these as well? If nothing comes from nothing is such a laughable suggestion, where did God come from? We as humans are not smart enough to know how the world originated yet. Look at how far we have come in knowledge of the universe over the past 500 years, and our knowledge continues to grow. We don't know everything in 2016, one day we might.

I'm not getting defensive but I'm passionate, please don't give me a link to wikiislam, that is a joke and doesn't disprove anything...

Islamic terrorism? We (true muslims) don't believe that anyone who hurts another human being is a muslim? Therefore they are just terrorists and not islamic, if the scripture is confusing them then they must not be able to read, why aren't the rest of the 1.8b muslims doing the same "killing a human is as if you have killed all of mankind" and "saving a human is as if you have saved all of mankind" not much confusion if you ask me... It's a never ending debate and there's so much to cover, but thank you for sharing your point of view!!

 

[Moe B]

You're getting defensive over nothing, I have no problem with Muslims, I've worked with, studied with and went to school with plenty of them and they are like you, peaceful and law abiding citizens. If you read my original quote I said i have issues with the scripture, because religious lunatics take it literally and that is why you see atrocious incidents like Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, and countless others across Europe and the Middle East. You can't deny that there is an epidemic across the world when it comes to Islamic terrorism, and they are getting their teachings from scripture.


I rule out the fact that there is an invisible man in the sky who runs everything, I can't rule out the possibility. To quote Richard Dawkins, I can't rule out the existence of magic fairies either, but I certainly don't believe that they exist. How can you say Darwins theory of evolution is unproven and unreliable? It is scientific fact. There has been physical evidence of evolution recorded, see The peppered Moth for example; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peppered_moth_evolution


https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Errors_in_the_Quran. Take your pick


There are billions upon billions of planets in the universe, 10^24 I believe with as many as 40 billion earth like planets. Did God create all of these as well? If nothing comes from nothing is such a laughable suggestion, where did God come from? We as humans are not smart enough to know how the world originated yet. Look at how far we have come in knowledge of the universe over the past 500 years, and our knowledge continues to grow. We don't know everything in 2016, one day we might.

Btw Richard Dawkins vs Prof John Lennox I think his name is, is a ripper debate...

 

[james Dean]

I'm not getting defensive but I'm passionate, please don't give me a link to wikiislam, that is a joke and doesn't disprove anything...

Islamic terrorism? We (true muslims) don't believe that anyone who hurts another human being is a muslim? Therefore they are just terrorists and not islamic, if the scripture is confusing them then they must not be able to read, why aren't the rest of the 1.8b muslims doing the same "killing a human is as if you have killed all of mankind" and "saving a human is as if you have saved all of mankind" not much confusion if you ask me... It's a never ending debate and there's so much to cover, but thank you for sharing your point of view!!

It's a redundant debate because you believe what you want based on faith, and I can't believe based on lack of evidence. At the end of the day if it inspires you to be a good person, then that's all that matters so I say good luck to you and Assalamu alaykum

 

[Moe B]

It's a redundant debate because you believe what you want based on faith, and I can't believe based on lack of evidence. At the end of the day if it inspires you to be a good person, then that's all that matters so I say good luck to you and Assalamu alaykum

That's a fair comment and you're entitled to believe whatever you think is right, Goodluck to you and Waleyykom walsalam...

 

[Moe B]

Dawkins vs anyone is a slaughter match, unfortunately.

Not this one Harker, Lennox gives him a slapping...

 

[Moe B]

What's the difference between 'believing' the big bang or a creator? Either way something seemingly came from nothing.
The only discussion to be had on that basis is whether you come from scientific angle or a magical one....maybe that's the same thing also?

The one question that many people don't ask themselves is this: "If I wasn't indoctrinated into my religion, would I believe in it?"
We largely follow the ideas we've been brought up on and that to a point is just a little disturbing.

I've asked myself many times if I'd be a muslim if I wasn't born one, the truth is who knows... For me there must be a purpose of life, surely it's not just goin to the footy and having a beer, there must be more to it, and then we die and go nowhere... Just sleep there forever defeating the purpose of ever surviving in the first place... I don't know!!

 

[Moe B]

On which topic? Lennox talks louder and with more force but where has his logic gazumped Dawkins?

The topic is the existence of a creator, in no way does Lennox raise his voice or with force, it's an intriguing debate that goes for about just under 2 hours on YouTube..

 

[Moe B]

There must be a purpose to life? Why must there be a purpose? Is it because we don't like the idea of there not being one?

There may well be but whatever that may be, will unlikely be the one that individuals may want it to be.

Man loves to trick his own mid in order to make life somewhat more palatable.
I'd sooner know the truth, however grim that may be.

Look Harks I'm no full expert on these topics but isn't there a purpose for almost everything? Why is life different? Are we here by complete accident? I can't except that this is all created by the environment and we are all subject to climate change...

 

[Moe B]

I have no issue discussing the notion of beipng created.
Just hard to buy into man's stories of how that came about. We're such liar's ☺

I can just picture my wife nodding in approval to that last comment

 

[Moe B]

Harks do athiests believe in, satan or devils, jinns or even angels?? Curious about that...

 

[Moe B]

Well we are liar's. That is somewhat depressing in itself.
Making up stories to suit control, government, society, whatever. It's just so disingenuous and we should be able to live without it. We really should be able to.

Correct, but imagine no guidelines, laws and for me religion, instincs would take over and that wouldn't necessarily be a good thing... There would be nothing holding us back in robbing a bank or drug trafficking or any form of making money illegally, that's how I see it... man needs laws to survive or this world would be out of control, even more so then it already is!!

 

[Moe B]

I don't respond to being called an atheist. I have no reason to be tagged as without people making stories up there would have been no need for that term.

All I know is that I'll go to my grave a dumb bastard for not knowing the answers to questions that are truly intriguing.

Pretending to know doesn't equate to knowing. We're all dumb for all our pretences to the contrary.

Didn't mean to offend you Harks and I apologize if I did... That's a fair answer, there are so many questions left unanswered!!

 

[Moe B]

Just watched the first half an hour and Lennox is an eloquent and controlled speaker but what has he really said in this time?
He's using the strawman quite a bit to this point, without really making any meaningful statement at all.
If you've taken something out of the first half an hour.........please tell me.......which point is it?

Maybe he hots up with more vision and less semantics in the next half hour or so.....I'll get to it later.

Firstly these guys have great minds and find little holes in each other's arguments to attack. Dawkins and atheists cannot disprove that there is a god, if evolution, physics, maths or science in general are changing, how can they be certain of anything at all?? Can they really make the "there is no god" statement?? Regardless, I enjoy watching this debate and find it very interesting indeed... Hope you enjoyed it Harks..

 

[Moe B]

Dawkins has argued that a creator is a more difficult prospect to work through than that of what information we currently have about our origins.
I don't think that Dawkins cares about beliefs as much as he does for the quest of truth.........or so he outwardly projects.

In the half an hour I've watched so far, how many time did Lennox use that term....'Believe'?
Frankly Dawkins looked largely disinterested and gave Lennox the floor, who had a much larger slice of the word pie than Dawkins had.

Not setting out to start a fight, but my question to you was: What did you like about what Lennox had to say?
You said he gave Dawkins a slapping but I just saw/heard rhetoric without substance.
For the most it seemed to me a 'you can't answer this....so it must be that' argument.

Maybe slapping isn't the correct way of putting it but when I watched this a while ago I was very impressed with the lennox argument... I know I had the feeling of a lennox victory as childish as that sounds but I'll need to watch it again to raise up those issues were I think lennox succeeded.. I'll try getting onto it asap!

 

[Moe B]

You have such a pleasant manner for discussion/debate.

Something I'm not quite as good at. Respect.

Thanks Harks, there's no point coming across in an aggressive manner if someone has a different point of view, everyone is entitled to believe whatever they want... It can get heated but abuse is a no no!!

 

[blue gunslinger]

Generally speaking, people don't like to have their beliefs questioned....Religion....Morals....Ethics...or even how to raise a child.
Try telling a new mum that she's, 'Doing it wrong'

.....And again generally speaking, non-theists have less to get up in arms about, because something/someone very dear and important to them isn't being ridiculed/rubbished etc.

We've all got a lot to learn and it's not our fault for being where we are and for what point in time we were privileged with life.
I'm selfish because I just want to know everything without question and disappointed that it won't be afforded to me in my lifetime.....Oh well.

I don't like being told what my beliefs SHOULD be

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

I agree Harks, there's nothing wrong with healthy discussion...but people who are willing to discuss why they believe what they do, and willing to be open to hearing other perspectives, are few and far between.

 

[blue gunslinger]

I find that in most discussions/debates one needs to be pushed in order to get as far as you can go.
People can just engage in restrained chat with a fear of offending, but maybe that discussion then falls short of what it could have reached.

Look at Moe B here. Many would have wielded an axe my way, but he chose to push through an argument with reason and not play the man.
I think he has something to say and I'm interested.

or woman

 

[Moe B]

I don't like being told what my beliefs SHOULD be

No-one is forcing you to do anything bg, one of the most important things in my religion is that there is no compulsion in islam... People who force things on other people are simply wrong and have no right to do that!! I'm sorry if you've met other people that think otherwise but again they're simply wrong...

 

[blue gunslinger]

No-one is forcing you to do anything bg, one of the most important things in my religion is that there is no compulsion in islam... People who force things on other people are simply wrong and have no right to do that!! I'm sorry if you've met other people that think otherwise but again they're simply wrong...

do the females married to muslim men agree?

 

[Moe B]

I find that in most discussions/debates one needs to be pushed in order to get as far as you can go.
People can just engage in restrained chat with a fear of offending, but maybe that discussion then falls short of what it could have reached.

Look at Moe B here. Many would have wielded an axe my way, but he chose to push through an argument with reason and not play the man.
I think he has something to say and I'm interested.

Thank you for your kind words Harks and you've hit it on the head, you've done the same with the counter argument and respect you a lot for that... I wish people just gave both sides of the argument a chance instead of judging without much knowledge of the actual topic at hand!!

 

[Moe B]

do the females married to muslim men agree?

My partner does, I can't speak for the billion plus people left over... What your insinuating is false anyway, my point is it shouldn't happen and isn't allowed, not that it doesn't happen because that would be ignorant of me...