Collingwood Supporters the Pies worst enemy.

[DNine]

I reckon Collingwood supporters are the biggest sooks in the AFL. I am a very loyal Pie fan, but if we don't make finals for a three year period, it isn't the end of the world. I think we are our own worst enemy. Look at how many players play into their 30's at the Pies. All of our players bar a couple here and there play until 30 and that's enough for them. Whereas North and Freo and Hawthorn, are full of seasoned veterans. We sook that much, the players are stuffed by 30. Just so tired of the expectations, so tired of playing every game as if it is a must win. I think I need to work on my must win attitude, but other supporters for Collingwood are so hell bent, they have no chance of being able to ENJOY the side they barrack for. Like I wrote a few weeks ago, I seen supporters complaining all the way through 2010, even up to the drawn Grand Final. There is no making you guys happy. Why bother, seriously.

How is supporting a side enjoyable for some people. Three years is not a lot IF we are moving in the right direction.

I believe we should be the biggest recruiters of the 27 year old player who has played for another club. Look at how well Ball and Jolly did for us. We fondly remember Brereton helping Sav gain control of the forward line.

Our club is not good for a young bloke to go from young and inexperienced to a seasoned veteran. The expectation and to use MM's words, blockbuster fatigue make it almost impossible for us to see a Mitchell, Harvey or a Pavlich keep going into their mid 30's.

I believe forget Buckley as the excuse for everything, I blame all the players that played under Malthouse apart from Swan, Pendlebury and Sidebottom. The rest are rubbish. Cloke, Brown, Goldsack, Toovey, Blair, MacAffer. THAT is who is supposed to be carrying the side to victory. How the hell does Buckley do anything apart from what he is doing with them guys failing to even play reasonbable football. These aged players at other clubs are doing so well.

Forget the game plan rubbish. If you haven't got a side that can execute the game plan put in front of them, you can have the best game plan in the world. We as supporters have NFI as to how if Buckley went to a successful side, how his game plan would be executed. We haven't got players playing good football, so the game plan talk is rubbish.

I find it incredible amusing as to where our supporters believe the fault lies. I laugh when I see someone bagging a player that hasn't even played 50 games, and supporters have him sorted out, to be nothing but a rubbish footballer. The latest craze is Tom Langdon. He's lazy, he's this his that. I love that guy. Can't see what people are talking about. Runs back into packs, plays like he has ticked over 100 games, yet he is yet to tick over 50.

There is a ridiculous amount of examples of players not playing staring Football until after their 50th game. If you have a great side, with at least 12 players over 25 and the other 10 being young, that is a good mix. But when your guys over 25 are sitting and watching through injury or poor form, you're not going to get the results you want.

And to all these armchair experts that thinks Travis Cloke should not of been dropped, half of you I see bagging him when he does play, and swap the bagging to Buckley when he doesn't. We have NFI how many times Buckley said to Cloke, "We need you to stand up today. The side is young, and we need our older players to make us solid contributors, and you are that player". Mind you, the player that demands $1m a year.

Football clubs need to do this MORE not less. We demand so much more of a young kid, and if he isn't up to scratch, we dump him. The attitude that players get, when after a match they play a normal game, not too bad, but not terribly good either, and they see their name in the VFL the next week, while Money Bags, has a stinker, and he stays in. Time and Time and Time again. Maybe not the same player, but different ones, get resentment when they are not dealt with fairly.

A good coach to me, is one that will make those hard calls. It is like when you see a parent in the supermarket warn 20 times that the child will not be getting the chocolate bar, but after the hassle the parent see's that this will cause, gets the chocolate bar anyway. BAD MOVE. You just admitted your word isn't worth crap. Keep pushing next time, and the same result may occur. Worth a try.

Same with Cloke. You can't threaten his position and then not take it, when he is not up to standard. He needs to dominate the VFL, and get himself back in.

When Cloke played the VFL, he was playing against easier players to play against at the AFL level, and he struggled to dominate. Yet people put that aside and say, we need him. Not like that we don't. Best to send the message. Long term gain is more important. Should of happened a long time ago.

So it looks as if Buckley will be moving on. Some coach in waiting will come in, and get gifted a side that will be awesome in 2018. It will happen whether Buckley stayed or not.

We are in for plenty more disappointment, and although it is ok to analyse the situation, to wrongly point the finger at Buckley, or Langdon, or the Game plan, "I BELIEVE" is incredibly naive. You give us 6 senior players from another side, that leads by example, and I will show you a side capable of winning any game. Our Youth = tick, our gameplan = Who knows, we don't have the players to execute it. The coach = I believe could well be a tick, but we will never know, because the football world despite over a hundred years of swings and roundabouts, wavey lines of good and bad form over the space of decades, should show a trend. I can see it, can You?

 

[doodles98]

look at moi... look at moi... I started a thread

 

[PhiloBeddoe]

look at moi... look at moi... I started a thread

And off we go.....

 

[DNine]

look at moi... look at moi... I started a thread

So what? I did look everywhere to see if there was a thread already made that talked about the negativity of Collingwood supporters, but couldn't find one. Everyone is too busy whinging at the wrong things. Like how a new thread was started.

 

[Captivating]

"I reckon Collingwood supporters are the biggest sooks in the AFL. I am a very loyal Pie fan, but if we don't make finals for a three year period, it isn't the end of the world. I think we are our own worst enemy."

So you start a thread to sook about sooking Collingwood supporters. Well played.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

That was an exceptionally long whinge about our senior players. Good job.

 

[Captivating]

In summary

TL;DR /thread

 

[doodles98]

So what? I did look everywhere to see if there was a thread already made that talked about the negativity of Collingwood supporters, but couldn't find one. Everyone is too busy whinging at the wrong things. Like how a new thread was started.

There's a venting thread or any number of threads you can rant and ramble on in. Probably best for the board if we avoid having every poster have their own personal rant and viewpoint thread.

 

[Tarkyn_24]

But to rebut, all of the players you've outed -

Cloke - would probably have been 5th selected for the 2010GF side
Toovey - 16th
Macaffer - 18th
Blair - debut season, probably player 21 in that team
Brown and Goldsack we know for a fact we're 23 and 24

So what do you bloody expect? Our senior players were all barely role players, with the exception of Brown and Cloke. Yet you expect us to build a side around that, and pin the blame on these guys for not standing up when they simply aren't good enough to! It is not the fault of those senior blokes that our fan base had ridiculously heightened expectations off the back of 2010.

Maybe ts time our BETTER players and not our OLDER ones coo a bit of heat. They've barely fired a shot.

 

[good4footy]

I reckon Collingwood supporters are the biggest sooks in the AFL. I am a very loyal Pie fan, but if we don't make finals for a three year period, it isn't the end of the world. I think we are our own worst enemy. Look at how many players play into their 30's at the Pies. All of our players bar a couple here and there play until 30 and that's enough for them. Whereas North and Freo and Hawthorn, are full of seasoned veterans. We sook that much, the players are stuffed by 30. Just so tired of the expectations, so tired of playing every game as if it is a must win. I think I need to work on my must win attitude, but other supporters for Collingwood are so hell bent, they have no chance of being able to ENJOY the side they barrack for. Like I wrote a few weeks ago, I seen supporters complaining all the way through 2010, even up to the drawn Grand Final. There is no making you guys happy. Why bother, seriously.

How is supporting a side enjoyable for some people. Three years is not a lot IF we are moving in the right direction.

I believe we should be the biggest recruiters of the 27 year old player who has played for another club. Look at how well Ball and Jolly did for us. We fondly remember Brereton helping Sav gain control of the forward line.

Our club is not good for a young bloke to go from young and inexperienced to a seasoned veteran. The expectation and to use MM's words, blockbuster fatigue make it almost impossible for us to see a Mitchell, Harvey or a Pavlich keep going into their mid 30's.

I believe forget Buckley as the excuse for everything, I blame all the players that played under Malthouse apart from Swan, Pendlebury and Sidebottom. The rest are rubbish. Cloke, Brown, Goldsack, Toovey, Blair, MacAffer. THAT is who is supposed to be carrying the side to victory. How the hell does Buckley do anything apart from what he is doing with them guys failing to even play reasonbable football. These aged players at other clubs are doing so well.

Forget the game plan rubbish. If you haven't got a side that can execute the game plan put in front of them, you can have the best game plan in the world. We as supporters have NFI as to how if Buckley went to a successful side, how his game plan would be executed. We haven't got players playing good football, so the game plan talk is rubbish.

I find it incredible amusing as to where our supporters believe the fault lies. I laugh when I see someone bagging a player that hasn't even played 50 games, and supporters have him sorted out, to be nothing but a rubbish footballer. The latest craze is Tom Langdon. He's lazy, he's this his that. I love that guy. Can't see what people are talking about. Runs back into packs, plays like he has ticked over 100 games, yet he is yet to tick over 50.

There is a ridiculous amount of examples of players not playing staring Football until after their 50th game. If you have a great side, with at least 12 players over 25 and the other 10 being young, that is a good mix. But when your guys over 25 are sitting and watching through injury or poor form, you're not going to get the results you want.

And to all these armchair experts that thinks Travis Cloke should not of been dropped, half of you I see bagging him when he does play, and swap the bagging to Buckley when he doesn't. We have NFI how many times Buckley said to Cloke, "We need you to stand up today. The side is young, and we need our older players to make us solid contributors, and you are that player". Mind you, the player that demands $1m a year.

Football clubs need to do this MORE not less. We demand so much more of a young kid, and if he isn't up to scratch, we dump him. The attitude that players get, when after a match they play a normal game, not too bad, but not terribly good either, and they see their name in the VFL the next week, while Money Bags, has a stinker, and he stays in. Time and Time and Time again. Maybe not the same player, but different ones, get resentment when they are not dealt with fairly.

A good coach to me, is one that will make those hard calls. It is like when you see a parent in the supermarket warn 20 times that the child will not be getting the chocolate bar, but after the hassle the parent see's that this will cause, gets the chocolate bar anyway. BAD MOVE. You just admitted your word isn't worth crap. Keep pushing next time, and the same result may occur. Worth a try.

Same with Cloke. You can't threaten his position and then not take it, when he is not up to standard. He needs to dominate the VFL, and get himself back in.

When Cloke played the VFL, he was playing against easier players to play against at the AFL level, and he struggled to dominate. Yet people put that aside and say, we need him. Not like that we don't. Best to send the message. Long term gain is more important. Should of happened a long time ago.

So it looks as if Buckley will be moving on. Some coach in waiting will come in, and get gifted a side that will be awesome in 2018. It will happen whether Buckley stayed or not.

We are in for plenty more disappointment, and although it is ok to analyse the situation, to wrongly point the finger at Buckley, or Langdon, or the Game plan, "I BELIEVE" is incredibly naive. You give us 6 senior players from another side, that leads by example, and I will show you a side capable of winning any game. Our Youth = tick, our gameplan = Who knows, we don't have the players to execute it. The coach = I believe could well be a tick, but we will never know, because the football world despite over a hundred years of swings and roundabouts, wavey lines of good and bad form over the space of decades, should show a trend. I can see it, can You?

Pretty long but thanks for posting something, that whether anyone agrees with, at least has some analysis to it.

 

[boxy99]

"I reckon Collingwood supporters are the biggest sooks in the AFL. I am a very loyal Pie fan, but if we don't make finals for a three year period, it isn't the end of the world. I think we are our own worst enemy."

So you start a thread to sook about sooking Collingwood supporters. Well played.

Haha I thought the samething.

 

[Unknown Identity]

Considering nahnah just started a thread on merging with Richmond i reckon you're spot on!..

 

[DNine]

There's a venting thread or any number of threads you can rant and ramble on in. Probably best for the board if we avoid having every poster have their own personal rant and viewpoint thread.

How about talk about the points I made, instead of showcasing your own importance. I probably stood on a few toes, and pointed a few of you out, as these incessant whingers of our club, and that will make you bitter toward me. I get that, but I didn't invite you to come in, read and comment. You did that. See what I mean, can't help yourself but to get into something that will make you the negative person you are. Feel free to read any other thread, and keep out of this one. That goes for the people who think this message is too long too. If you not someone who reads terribly well, then don't read it. This message is nothing compared to lets say....a book. But if you want to highlight the fact you are almost illiterate be my guest. To read this would take me all of 2 minutes.

I am not complaining about the sooks that support my football club, I'm analysing them. No frustration or any anger, just saying how it is.

 

[DNine]

But to rebut, all of the players you've outed -

Cloke - would probably have been 5th selected for the 2010GF side
Toovey - 16th
Macaffer - 18th
Blair - debut season, probably player 21 in that team
Brown and Goldsack we know for a fact we're 23 and 24

So what do you bloody expect? Our senior players were all barely role players, with the exception of Brown and Cloke. Yet you expect us to build a side around that, and pin the blame on these guys for not standing up when they simply aren't good enough to! It is not the fault of those senior blokes that our fan base had ridiculously heightened expectations off the back of 2010.

Maybe ts time our BETTER players and not our OLDER ones coo a bit of heat. They've barely fired a shot.

They are Premiership players. Players who are supposed to get better and better each year, to be very smart operators now.

We were a young premiership side in 2010, these are the ones left. The rest retired, and the worst ones went to other sides or were delisted.

Our better players? Who are they? Seems to me we are relying on our better players who are under 50 games to create miracles to me.

The only better players we have that have played a fair bit of football, minus these lot, are Sidebottom = tick, Pendlebury = tick, Fasolo = tick. The rest of them are babies. If they were playing for Hawthorn, they would still be in and out of the side. It wouldn't be the be all and end all that they played awesome games.

 

[doodles98]

How about talk about the points I made, instead of showcasing your own importance. I probably stood on a few toes, and pointed a few of you out, as these incessant whingers of our club, and that will make you bitter toward me. I get that, but I didn't invite you to come in, read and comment. You did that. See what I mean, can't help yourself but to get into something that will make you the negative person you are. Feel free to read any other thread, and keep out of this one. That goes for the people who think this message is too long too. If you not someone who reads terribly well, then don't read it. This message is nothing compared to lets say....a book. But if you want to highlight the fact you are almost illiterate be my guest. To read this would take me all of 2 minutes.

I am not complaining about the sooks that support my football club, I'm analysing them. No frustration or any anger, just saying how it is.

Look I'm sorry for upsetting you.. I'm not bitter towards you.. don't know where you get that from. I just thought starting your own rant thread was a bit overly self indulgent. Still do. But yes you are right I probably should take my own advice and don't post in it if I don't like it. So accept my apologies and I'll be off somewhere else and leave it to those who agree with you and want to contribute positively to your thread

 

[mattys123]

Apart from the first paragraph you are actually making sense DNine

The senior players, or should I say lack of senior players are a massive reason why we are struggling at the moment.

The thread title is pretty bad though, I hate it, I absolutely hate it when anyone at our club blames our fans for being "the problem" or part of the problem.

If anything having a massive, passionate, off their nut supporter base should be a massive advantage.

We as a club have always been a mess, since I've been alive, following the team in the 80's we got in a trade war with Richmond then almost went broke, only to miraculously get Leigh Matthews to the club (thanks Bobby Rose) who turned it all around. Then after we won the flag in 90 the club turned into a shit show, and it had little to do with the fans. The players almost wholely went off the rails, the administration fell apart and got delusions of grandure and then we almost went broke, again. Then Eddie saved us, got Mick Malthouse and we endured through one of the more enjoyably frustrating periods of this club's post WW2 history. We played in 8-9 (??) finals series in row and won that elusive second AFL flag. Then we ****ed it up, again, with this succession plan.

VERY LITTLE, IN FACT NONE OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE FANS, NONE OF IT. We turn up every bloody week (in some cases twice, VFL + AFL) and we get blamed for the shit that the club shoves down our throats at the moment? Hell no.

It's time for another shake up, just like post 1990, it took us 9 years to shake that shit up though, now it's taken 6. Do it now, change the club culture from top to bottom. A clean out, a broom through the place, with very few left would be the ideal situation, and I know it won't happen, but it should. AND IT WILL EVENTUALLY, JUST LIKE IT DID IN THE LATE 90;s, and the mid 80's. Change is inevitable, it's necessary.

NOW THAT'S A RANT.

 

[DNine]

Look I'm sorry for upsetting you.. I'm not bitter towards you.. don't know where you get that from. I just thought starting your own rant thread was a bit overly self indulgent. Still do. But yes you are right I probably should take my own advice and don't post in it if I don't like it. So accept my apologies and I'll be off somewhere else and leave it to those who agree with you and want to contribute positively to your thread

Do not have to agree with me. Never asked for that. If you actually read what I am saying, and disagreed on any point at all, I am very open to that. I am still learning all the time. What I don't get any value from is comments that don't relate to anything I wrote.

You think it is self indulgent. These board are made for supporters to ponder idea's, share differences of opinion, and despite you thinking I am not up for that, well that is not true.

You are not special to make your own threads. It is not a accolade to do so. I am voicing an opinion that I haven't seen anywhere else. Here is a task for you, put a link to where you think this should of went.

 

[DNine]

Apart from the first paragraph you are actually making sense DNine

The senior players, or should I say lack of senior players are a massive reason why we are struggling at the moment.

The thread title is pretty bad though, I hate it, I absolutely hate it when anyone at our club blames our fans for being "the problem" or part of the problem.

If anything having a massive, passionate, off their nut supporter base should be a massive advantage.

We as a club have always been a mess, since I've been alive, following the team in the 80's we got in a trade war with Richmond then almost went broke, only to miraculously get Leigh Matthews to the club (thanks Bobby Rose) who turned it all around. Then after we won the flag in 90 the club turned into a shit show, and it had little to do with the fans. The players almost wholely went off the rails, the administration fell apart and got delusions of grandure and then we almost went broke, again. Then Eddie saved us, got Mick Malthouse and we endured through one of the more enjoyably frustrating periods of this club's post WW2 history. We played in 8-9 (??) finals series in row and won that elusive second AFL flag. Then we stuffed it up, again, with this succession plan.

VERY LITTLE, IN FACT NONE OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE FANS, NONE OF IT. We turn up every bloody week (in some cases twice, VFL + AFL) and we get blamed for the shit that the club shoves down our throats at the moment? Hell no.

It's time for another shake up, just like post 1990, it took us 9 years to shake that shit up though, now it's taken 6. Do it now, change the club culture from top to bottom. A clean out, a broom through the place, with very few left would be the ideal situation, and I know it won't happen, but it should. AND IT WILL EVENTUALLY, JUST LIKE IT DID IN THE LATE 90;s, and the mid 80's. Change is inevitable, it's necessary.

NOW THAT'S A RANT.

So what you are basically saying, is we keep going down after our successes? That is understandable. It is all part of the game. You can't be on top for ever, unless you are paying players with Sponsorship money, which Hawthorn and Geelong and possibly Sydney are. Most teams have similar records than the one below. Even Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney have all had periods of not much success. It is just the way it is.

Whether we get rid of Buckley or not, this line will head back up very soon. Not in weeks, but taking a step back, and looking over decades, it is all to be expected.

Whether you believe it or not, players who have left our club, have looked back at the Collingwood years as the hardest. Two reasons, expectation of Fans and Blockbuster fatigue.

 

[1892]

I think it's a bit of a chicken and egg thing. 'pies supporters want results, but our expectations aren't cooled by claims from the top echelon of the club that we're aiming to play finals. Would 'pies supporters be more accepting if the club came out and declared we're developing or simply made no outlandish statements?

I agree that we've been hurt where other clubs have benefitted from stars playing into their 30s and we lack leadership as a result. Our top players haven't been able to and it's nothing new. Just look at how few 300 game players we have in comparison to other clubs. From 2010 we have 3 stars (Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Swan). Cloke could still turn it around and rejoin that group. Reid has been decimated by injury, but the remainder Blair, Brown, Goldsack, Macaffer, Toovey haven't progressed further. I think in their cases it's because a role player was their level rather than a lack of development or injury.

Undoubtably we'd be better off if we replaced these role players with their All Australian teammates. As you can see from their current ages in brackets it's not unfeasible that they could still be playing with most only a few years older.

Blair (26) -> Didak (33)
Goldsack (28) -> Maxwell (32)
Macaffer (28) -> Ball (31)
Toovey (29) -> Davis (34)​

We also traded and drafted hard to set up 2010 and 2011, outside of our premiership team the only other players who remain on our list from 2010 are Sinclair, Keeffe and Thomas. From 2011 it's only Fasolo, from 2012 Elliott, Gault, Williams and Witts. Out of that group only Fasolo has been able to get on the park with any consistency this year, which again effects onfield leadership.

We started our rebuild at the end of 2013 with Broomhead, Frost, Grundy, Oxley and Ramsay the new recruits who still remain. Broomhead and Ramsay have been hurt by injury, Grundy is young for a ruck and Frost is a role player.

On Cloke his direct VFL opponents have been Grima and Jamison, although he's mostly double or triple teamed. Certainly Essendon would have been an easier assignment than Essendon VFL.

 

[DNine]

I think it's a bit of a chicken and egg thing. 'pies supporters want results, but our expectations aren't cooled by claims from the top echelon of the club that we're aiming to play finals. Would 'pies supporters be more accepting if the club came out and declared we're developing or simply made no outlandish statements?

I agree that we've been hurt where other clubs have benefitted from stars playing into their 30s and we lack leadership as a result. Our top players haven't been able to and it's nothing new. Just look at how few 300 game players we have in comparison to other clubs. From 2010 we have 3 stars (Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Swan). Cloke could still turn it around and rejoin that group. Reid has been decimated by injury, but the remainder Blair, Brown, Goldsack, Macaffer, Toovey haven't progressed further. I think in their cases it's because a role player was their level rather than a lack of development or injury.

Undoubtably we'd be better off if we replaced these role players with their All Australian teammates. As you can see from their current ages in brackets it's not unfeasible that they could still be playing with most only a few years older.

Blair (26) -> Didak (33)
Goldsack (28) -> Maxwell (32)
Macaffer (28) -> Ball (31)
Toovey (29) -> Davis (34)​

We also traded and drafted hard to set up 2010 and 2011, outside of our premiership team the only other players who remain on our list from 2010 are Sinclair, Keeffe and Thomas. From 2011 it's only Fasolo, from 2012 Elliott, Gault, Williams and Witts. Out of that group only Fasolo has been able to get on the park with any consistency this year, which again effects onfield leadership.

We started our rebuild at the end of 2013 with Broomhead, Frost, Grundy, Oxley and Ramsay the new recruits who still remain. Broomhead and Ramsay have been hurt by injury, Grundy is young for a ruck and Frost is a role player.

On Cloke his direct VFL opponents have been Grima and Jamison, although he's mostly double or triple teamed. Certainly Essendon would have been an easier assignment than Essendon VFL.

You make several great points here.

I don't think we can forgive players for not being great players because they are role players. There are too many so called role players who are similar players than ours, doing much better than ours.

The problem with the Essendon game, is he didn't come up to CHF. He will get triple teams as long as the selection committee keep getting his position wrong. He is a CHF not a FF. Great tank, great hands, great long field kicks. USE THEM. Misses his goals, gets triple teamed and can't get around this by explosive off the mark speeds, is why Cloke is NOT a FF.

 

[1892]

You make several great points here.

I don't think we can forgive players for not being great players because they are role players. There are too many so called role players who are similar players than ours, doing much better than ours.

The problem with the Essendon game, is he didn't come up to CHF. He will get triple teams as long as the selection committee keep getting his position wrong. He is a CHF not a FF. Great tank, great hands, great long field kicks. USE THEM. Misses his goals, gets triple teamed and can't get around this by explosive off the mark speeds, is why Cloke is NOT a FF.

It's much easier to be a role player in a good team than a bad one. In a bad team their deficiencies are exposed more due to the lack the star teammates to cover/hide weaknesses and there's also greater expectation for role players to do more and be more, which leads to higher supporter criticism.

I also think that our list balance is wrong and we're currently playing too many role players and lack top/elite quality. Injuries and recruitment are both a factor.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Change your thread title OP.

POSITIVE Collingwood supporters are our own worst enemy.

 

[12kilos]

Buckley has had 6 years. We as a club can critic how bad Cloke or Brown have been? Maybe we need to look at it deeper then that? How can Brown especially Cloke fall frrom grace so much?
Why isnt the team playing for each other ? Collingwood Malthouse teams even in a rebuilding phase would play for each other and the coach.
Dont care what you say mate this present team is 1/ Not playing for the coach! for each othrer! or for the jumper!
There is an old Greek saying which i have quoted in another thread.
The Fish smells from the HEAD! Who is our head of football? Buckley!

 

[Leviathan Pie]

"I reckon Collingwood supporters are the biggest sooks in the AFL. I am a very loyal Pie fan, but if we don't make finals for a three year period, it isn't the end of the world. I think we are our own worst enemy."

So you start a thread to sook about sooking Collingwood supporters. Well played.

lol, I noticed that too. Some kind of reverse troll.

"and he plays a hook-shot, or as its known these days the reverse cut-shot"

 

[legendstatus]

I reckon Collingwood supporters are the biggest sooks in the AFL. I am a very loyal Pie fan, but if we don't make finals for a three year period, it isn't the end of the world. I think we are our own worst enemy. Look at how many players play into their 30's at the Pies. All of our players bar a couple here and there play until 30 and that's enough for them. Whereas North and Freo and Hawthorn, are full of seasoned veterans. We sook that much, the players are stuffed by 30. Just so tired of the expectations, so tired of playing every game as if it is a must win. I think I need to work on my must win attitude, but other supporters for Collingwood are so hell bent, they have no chance of being able to ENJOY the side they barrack for. Like I wrote a few weeks ago, I seen supporters complaining all the way through 2010, even up to the drawn Grand Final. There is no making you guys happy. Why bother, seriously.

How is supporting a side enjoyable for some people. Three years is not a lot IF we are moving in the right direction.

I believe we should be the biggest recruiters of the 27 year old player who has played for another club. Look at how well Ball and Jolly did for us. We fondly remember Brereton helping Sav gain control of the forward line.

Our club is not good for a young bloke to go from young and inexperienced to a seasoned veteran. The expectation and to use MM's words, blockbuster fatigue make it almost impossible for us to see a Mitchell, Harvey or a Pavlich keep going into their mid 30's.

I believe forget Buckley as the excuse for everything, I blame all the players that played under Malthouse apart from Swan, Pendlebury and Sidebottom. The rest are rubbish. Cloke, Brown, Goldsack, Toovey, Blair, MacAffer. THAT is who is supposed to be carrying the side to victory. How the hell does Buckley do anything apart from what he is doing with them guys failing to even play reasonbable football. These aged players at other clubs are doing so well.

Forget the game plan rubbish. If you haven't got a side that can execute the game plan put in front of them, you can have the best game plan in the world. We as supporters have NFI as to how if Buckley went to a successful side, how his game plan would be executed. We haven't got players playing good football, so the game plan talk is rubbish.

I find it incredible amusing as to where our supporters believe the fault lies. I laugh when I see someone bagging a player that hasn't even played 50 games, and supporters have him sorted out, to be nothing but a rubbish footballer. The latest craze is Tom Langdon. He's lazy, he's this his that. I love that guy. Can't see what people are talking about. Runs back into packs, plays like he has ticked over 100 games, yet he is yet to tick over 50.

There is a ridiculous amount of examples of players not playing staring Football until after their 50th game. If you have a great side, with at least 12 players over 25 and the other 10 being young, that is a good mix. But when your guys over 25 are sitting and watching through injury or poor form, you're not going to get the results you want.

And to all these armchair experts that thinks Travis Cloke should not of been dropped, half of you I see bagging him when he does play, and swap the bagging to Buckley when he doesn't. We have NFI how many times Buckley said to Cloke, "We need you to stand up today. The side is young, and we need our older players to make us solid contributors, and you are that player". Mind you, the player that demands $1m a year.

Football clubs need to do this MORE not less. We demand so much more of a young kid, and if he isn't up to scratch, we dump him. The attitude that players get, when after a match they play a normal game, not too bad, but not terribly good either, and they see their name in the VFL the next week, while Money Bags, has a stinker, and he stays in. Time and Time and Time again. Maybe not the same player, but different ones, get resentment when they are not dealt with fairly.

A good coach to me, is one that will make those hard calls. It is like when you see a parent in the supermarket warn 20 times that the child will not be getting the chocolate bar, but after the hassle the parent see's that this will cause, gets the chocolate bar anyway. BAD MOVE. You just admitted your word isn't worth crap. Keep pushing next time, and the same result may occur. Worth a try.

Same with Cloke. You can't threaten his position and then not take it, when he is not up to standard. He needs to dominate the VFL, and get himself back in.

When Cloke played the VFL, he was playing against easier players to play against at the AFL level, and he struggled to dominate. Yet people put that aside and say, we need him. Not like that we don't. Best to send the message. Long term gain is more important. Should of happened a long time ago.

So it looks as if Buckley will be moving on. Some coach in waiting will come in, and get gifted a side that will be awesome in 2018. It will happen whether Buckley stayed or not.

We are in for plenty more disappointment, and although it is ok to analyse the situation, to wrongly point the finger at Buckley, or Langdon, or the Game plan, "I BELIEVE" is incredibly naive. You give us 6 senior players from another side, that leads by example, and I will show you a side capable of winning any game. Our Youth = tick, our gameplan = Who knows, we don't have the players to execute it. The coach = I believe could well be a tick, but we will never know, because the football world despite over a hundred years of swings and roundabouts, wavey lines of good and bad form over the space of decades, should show a trend. I can see it, can You?

Thread too long sorry