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Rumour Bluemour Discussion thread

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Substance use disorder is definitely classed as a mental health issue, as is gambling addiction.

Here is a complete list of categories in the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (DSM-5):

• Neurodevelopmental Disorders
• Schizophrenia Spectrum and Other Psychotic Disorders
• Bipolar and Related Disorders
• Depressive Disorders
• Anxiety Disorders
• Obsessive-Compulsive and Related Disorders
• Trauma- and Stressor-Related Disorders
• Dissociative Disorders
• Somatic Symptom Disorders
• Feeding and Eating Disorders
• Elimination Disorders
• Sleep-Wake Disorders
• Sexual Dysfunctions
• Gender Dysphoria
• Disruptive, Impulse Control and Conduct Disorders
• Substance Use and Addictive Disorders
• Neurocognitive Disorders
• Personality Disorders
• Paraphilic Disorders
• Other Disorders

Each one of these disorders has significant detrimental effects on the quality of life of the sufferer and their families. Depression is not the only mental health issue.
 
ODNBlue said:
Substance use disorder is definitely classed as a mental health issue, as is gambling addiction.

Here is a complete list of categories in the diagnostic and statistical manual of mental disorders (DSM-5):

• Neurodevelopmental Disorders
• Schizophrenia Spectrum and Other Psychotic Disorders
• Bipolar and Related Disorders
• Depressive Disorders
• Anxiety Disorders
• Obsessive-Compulsive and Related Disorders
• Trauma- and Stressor-Related Disorders
• Dissociative Disorders
• Somatic Symptom Disorders
• Feeding and Eating Disorders
• Elimination Disorders
• Sleep-Wake Disorders
• Sexual Dysfunctions
• Gender Dysphoria
• Disruptive, Impulse Control and Conduct Disorders
• Substance Use and Addictive Disorders
• Neurocognitive Disorders
• Personality Disorders
• Paraphilic Disorders
• Other Disorders

Each one of these disorders has significant detrimental effects on the quality of life of the sufferer and their families. Depression is not the only mental health issue.
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I just dont agree that substance abuse and gambling addictions are mental health issues in all circumstances.

They may be symptoms of another mental health issue, but they are not in themselves a mental issue, except perhaps in extreem examples. Seems to me just to be a way to pass the blame off the individual onto an uncontrollable illness whilst simultaneously opening up the medical profession to another wonderfully large market to push medication and other treatments with the backing off curing a "legitimate mental health illness".

Soon obesity will come under the umbrella of mental health issues if we follow that logic.

Lets just say I think its far more likely that sunshine (if it is a substance abuse issue) has too much money and not enough self control rather than a crippling mental health issue.

I'd probably hit the narcotics hard too if i had 200k a year.
 
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FlowersByIrene said:
I just dont agree that substance abuse and gambling addictions are mental health issues.

They may be symptoms of another mental health issue, but they are not in themselves a mental issue. Seems to me just to be a way to pass the blame off the individual onto an uncontrollable illness whilst simultaneously opening up the medical profession to another wonderfully large market to push medication and other treatments with the backing off curing a "legitimate mental health illness".

Soon obesity will come under the umbrella of mental health issues if we follow that logic.
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What he's trying to put across is that some people are predisposed (sometimes genetically, sometimes throug their upbringing, probably a combination of the two) towards addictive behaviours.

Sure there'll always be some people playing possum, but there are people out there who develop such an ingrained pattern of behaviour it's like they're on autopilot. There's certainly a neurological basis to it, whether or not you believe which combination of factors involved, and the chemical process the brain undergoes permanently changes it until you're able to turn things around.

Obviously in cases of chemical addiction, this happens much more quickly and is much more difficult to kick, but if addicts had the ability to stop, they probably would when their life is in total ruins, and yet they don't.
 
Jimmae said:
What he's trying to put across is that some people are predisposed (sometimes genetically, sometimes throug their upbringing, probably a combination of the two) towards addictive behaviours.

Sure there'll always be some people playing possum, but there are people out there who develop such an ingrained pattern of behaviour it's like they're on autopilot. There's certainly a neurological basis to it, whether or not you believe which combination of factors involved, and the chemical process the brain undergoes permanently changes it until you're able to turn things around.

Obviously in cases of chemical addiction, this happens much more quickly and is much more difficult to kick, but if addicts had the ability to stop, they probably would when their life is in total ruins, and yet they don't.
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I edited my post above to reflect that sentiment. Obviously there are those extreme cases where people do completely ruin their lives with addiction.

However in the case of football players. I am pessimistic. McCarthy's life certainly isnt in shambles, he's earning a few hundred thousand dollars whilst training for footy a few times a week and doing nothing. Would these issues (if they are substance abuse) still be there if he had no money? Would these issues take him to the point of ruining his life? Or is it a minor impact on his football career caused by a lack of self control and too much money?
 

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FlowersByIrene said:
I edited my post above to reflect that sentiment. Obviously there are those extreme cases where people do completely ruin their lives with addiction.

However in the case of football players. I am pessimistic. McCarthy's life certainly isnt in shambles, he's earning a few hundred thousand dollars whilst training for footy a few times a week and doing nothing. Would these issues (if they are substance abuse) still be there if he had no money? Would these issues take him to the point of ruining his life? Or is it a minor impact on his football career caused by a lack of self control and too much money?
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They live in such a bubble with so much implied pressure it really wouldn't take much to tip them over the edge.
 
Jimmae said:
They live in such a bubble with so much implied pressure it really wouldn't take much to tip them over the edge.
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Please, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

In terms of blessed existences AFL player is basically about as high as you can get in Australia.
 
FlowersByIrene said:
Please, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

In terms of blessed existences AFL player is basically about as high as you can get in Australia.
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Not everyone is cut out or equipped to handle it though. How many players have we seen over the years come out and say they are battling mental demons? We just traded one this off season who was a star....
 
ShanDog said:
Not everyone is cut out or equipped to handle it though. How many players have we seen over the years come out and say they are battling mental demons? We just traded one this off season who was a star....
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Agree it can be tough and some people arent cut out to do it.

But.. expanding our mind further than the sphere of AFL football, male suicide is a disproprotionately large issue in Australian society. Men are prone to kill themselves everywhere over these things. Yet I couldnt name you a footballer who took their life last year, or even in the last decade.
 
FlowersByIrene said:
Please, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

In terms of blessed existences AFL player is basically about as high as you can get in Australia.
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Absolutely, but they have to have their heads pretty far up their own arses, or they need to be very fair-minded and generous people to not feel the pinch of how everyone else feels about it.
 
Mental health is a complex topic and discussions of responsibility and obligations are difficult.

Let's say I am an anxious person, highly qualified for a job, with a high productivity. I get the job, but get put off by an early problem, let's say an unpleasant social situation. I start becoming withdrawn, I avoid other employees, my productivity declines due to a lack of team cohesion. I ask for time off, I become more and more anxious about returning. I resign in short order.

To the external eye, it looks like I just wasn't any good, maybe they think I was lazy and took annual leave early before quitting as a rort. In truth, I tried to do my best, but was hindered by my mental health.

People in these sort of positions don't feel free of obligation, they often feel like failures or guilty about not performing. They want to succeed, not only because it is good for them professionally, but because it is a key drive of people to self-actualise (be what you think you are).

I don't know Cameron, I wouldn't think to speak for him or about his situation. But I think the often invisible nature of mental health issues is not something to be taken lightly, nor how it might manifest.
 
FlowersByIrene said:
Agree it can be tough and some people arent cut out to do it.

But.. expanding our mind further than the sphere of AFL football, male suicide is a disproprotionately large issue in Australian society. Men are prone to kill themselves everywhere over these things. Yet I couldnt name you a footballer who took their life last year, or even in the last decade.
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It might have a bit to do with the professional environment providing better access to support networks and education on the matter. I'm no expert on suicide but get yearly briefings on prevention at work, and usually the common theme is about loss and perceived isolation. It would just be my guess but average Joe or Jane won't have the same support systems to call on as a professional footballer who no doubt are fortunate enough to have constant medical supervision, pastoral care and post-career support options these days. I'm guessing this stuff, and the relatively few AFL footballers there are compared to the general public, accounts for the disparity in statistics.
 
FlowersByIrene said:
Agree it can be tough and some people arent cut out to do it.

But.. expanding our mind further than the sphere of AFL football, male suicide is a disproprotionately large issue in Australian society. Men are prone to kill themselves everywhere over these things. Yet I couldnt name you a footballer who took their life last year, or even in the last decade.
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So, are you saying that because there isn't suicide it isn't real? That's a bit rich....
 

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FlowersByIrene said:
Agree it can be tough and some people arent cut out to do it.

But.. expanding our mind further than the sphere of AFL football, male suicide is a disproprotionately large issue in Australian society. Men are prone to kill themselves everywhere over these things. Yet I couldnt name you a footballer who took their life last year, or even in the last decade.
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I could.
 
Murphkreuzmitch said:
So, are you saying that because there isn't suicide it isn't real? That's a bit rich....
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I dont think thats what im saying at all. If you actually read the post I cant see how you would draw that conclusion.

I was saying that footballer is a blessed existence, it was stated back to me that the pressure is not for everyone, and I said what you responded to.

Its quite easy to see that footballers, be it either general quality of life, or the support given to them by clubs, family and friends or a combination of both have it easier than the regular man.
 
MEB_ said:
A 'blessed existence' doesn't mean anything when a person is mentally unwell. You can have millions but still feel totally overwhelmed by life, or desperately lonely, or have an addiction.
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Well said MEB. [emoji106]
Unfortunately there's still a lot of ignorance regarding mental health, hopefully this shifts in the near future.

Sent from my SM-N915G using Tapatalk
 
FlowersByIrene said:
I dont think thats what im saying at all. If you actually read the post I cant see how you would draw that conclusion.

I was saying that footballer is a blessed existence, it was stated back to me that the pressure is not for everyone, and I said what you responded to.

Its quite easy to see that footballers, be it either general quality of life, or the support given to them by clubs, family and friends or a combination of both have it easier than the regular man.
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I read your post and those before it, and it's easy to draw that conclusion. When you start by saying "When it comes to footballers I'm pessimistic" and then finish with that quote about the suicide. What else are you eluding to..

You talk about his life not being in a shambles in another post, how could you possibly know this??? Making a lot of money doesn't mean shit if you can't get the rest of it together, playing football doesn't mean suffering wont occur, and being in an elite sporting environment doesn't always equal getting the right help or life balance needed.
 

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Murphkreuzmitch said:
I read your post and those before it, and it's easy to draw that conclusion. When you start by saying "When it comes to footballers I'm pessimistic" and then finish with that quote about the suicide. What else are you eluding to..

You talk about his life not being in a shambles in another post, how could you possibly know this??? Making a lot of money doesn't mean shit if you can't get the rest of it together, playing football doesn't mean suffering wont occur, and being in an elite sporting environment doesn't always equal getting the right help or life balance needed.
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Well yes when i comes down to McCarthy I am dubious.
 
The same situation can effect different people in different ways. Some footballers may have mental health issues, while others don't. What pisses me off is when people say, "Oh, so and so is weak as piss because they can't handle a situation," or "so and so is being an arseh*le because they won't talk to me." Everyone is different, has a different make-up and different life experiences for which they have no control over - for some, getting out of home is a massive achievement in itself, and to me they're more courageous than, say, an AFL footballer.

In many ways it's good that mental health is being discussed publicly. It affects a lot of people.
 
MEB_ said:
Some extremely high profile people with 'blessed existences' have succumbed to mental health with no one questioning it, e.g. Robin Williams. Why is it hard to believe that footballers can also be at risk of the same mental health issues that plague the rest of society?
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Robin Williams was the first person I thought of when I saw your previous post.
 
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