Opinion Women's pay discussion

[Pie eyed]

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This post was moved out of another thread to create a separate discussion

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The pay needs to be addressed straight away.
Base should be $25,000 with top players getting a decent annual salary around the $85,000 mark.
A garbo can earn $85,000.00 a year and that's no knock on garbo's.

 

[76woodenspooners]

The pay needs to be addressed straight away.
Base should be $25,000 with top players getting a decent annual salary around the $85,000 mark.
A garbo can earn $85,000.00 a year and that's no knock on garbo's.

In 2017 the women's comp will only run for 8 weeks - it's not an annual thing (yet)

 

[barrackers]

My sense is that this short season was designed to test the waters almost a soft launch if you will and I don't think the AFL expected it gain the momentum it has. Look at the last exhibition game compared to ones before it, the AFL wouldn't have expected that attendance even 6 months ago.

I'd expect pay to increase for season 2 given we're already seeing sponsors climb onboard and pay/sponsors will intensify if we see good crowds and tv numbers.

 

[Pie eyed]

In 2017 the women's comp will only run for 8 weeks - it's not an annual thing (yet)

Hopefully it will be.
I may have jumped the gun not realising how short th season actually is.
Most players will earn very little though once they pay for a pie and bus fare.

 

[scruffydog]

Most players will earn very little though once they pay for a pie and bus fare.

Geez most AFL players would earn very little if they were buying lunch at the G at each game. Franklin would struggle.

 

[scruffydog]

Seriously though, it's low pay, but this is THE START. AFL players were playing for nothing when they started and it has taken them 100+ years to earn these lucrative contracts.

The womens league players won't need to go through that as it will be fast tracked. I doubt we'll see them earning Buddy-esque money in our lifetimes but I'm hopeful that things will progress quickly. Can't do that until they have the money from sponsors etc though.

I have faith.

 

[Kappa]

[Mod Edit]

This post was moved out of another thread to create a separate discussion

[/Mod Edit]

The pay needs to be addressed straight away.
Base should be $25,000 with top players getting a decent annual salary around the $85,000 mark.
A garbo can earn $85,000.00 a year and that's no knock on garbo's.

These are mostly part time amateurs playing for 8 weeks a year, the pay is very generous.

They will be able to have a 2nd job and combine to make quite a healthy income.

 

[cleomenes]

The money is not good enough. The season may be 8 weeks, but the preseason will make it significantly longer. As soon as one of these players commits to the competition, her existing career, whatever it may be, will come under pressure. Training and playing all over the place will exacerbate this. GWS players got more, not less than normal for being part of an experiment. The AFL is doing this on the cheap, and shouldn't be.

 

[Kappa]

The money is not good enough. The season may be 8 weeks, but the preseason will make it significantly longer. As soon as one of these players commits to the competition, her existing career, whatever it may be, will come under pressure. Training and playing all over the place will exacerbate this. GWS players got more, not less than normal for being part of an experiment. The AFL is doing this on the cheap, and shouldn't be.

Tens of thousands of amatuer footy players can do a full season of footy without even one tenth of the pay... Will you campaign for them too?

They have to do the same or even more training in a lot of cases, sure they don't have to travel as far but their season is 2.5 times longer.

Also where is this money coming from to give every player a big pay rise?


The pay rise will come if it's deserved, that is, if the league attracts crowds and (more importantly) viewership on TV.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Also where is this money coming from to give every player a big pay rise?

This is the key.

Do we ultimately want the women's competition to be subsidised by the men's competition? ... That sounds a bit patronising to me.

Or do we ultimately want the women's competition to be sustainable in its own right? ... I reckon that would be a wonderful achievement for everybody involved in the competition if that eventuated.

Of course the women's competition needs to be subsidised initially to get going, but if we do want it to become sustainable in its own right then it's a good idea not to burden it initially with huge debt or crippling expenses. We all want this to succeed.

The pay rise will come if it's deserved, that is, if the league attracts crowds and (more importantly) viewership on TV.

... Or revenue in whatever form that takes.

I wonder if it's worthwhile bypass the whole TV broadcast deal thing and experiment with models of streaming games live over the Internet?

 

[cleomenes]

Tens of thousands of amatuer footy players can do a full season of footy without even one tenth of the pay... Will you campaign for them too?

They have to do the same or even more training in a lot of cases, sure they don't have to travel as far but their season is 2.5 times longer.

Also where is this money coming from to give every player a big pay rise?


The pay rise will come if it's deserved, that is, if the league attracts crowds and (more importantly) viewership on TV.

Amateur players are in leagues conveniently placed for them. These women are submitting to a draft process that can place them anywhere.

 

[Kappa]

Amateur players are in leagues conveniently placed for them. These women are submitting to a draft process that can place them anywhere.

If I remember correctly don't players get compensation packages if they're asked to move?

 

[Tarkyn_24]

I'm talking to the pay gap that exists generally when it comes to male vs female sports, and not necessarily the AFL situation, but what people need to realise is that the amount that players will be paid will generally be linked to the entertainment value derived from the sport; in some way or another.

If a woman is capable of competing skillfully with a man then they should (ideologically) be getting paid the same. If a woman can't perform to the standard of play, then pay falls off a cliff the exact same way that a VFL footballer, local amateur footballer etc.'s pay does. Obviously its a simplistic view and there will be variances but this is how implicitly inequal wages are derived. You are paid (broadly speaking) for the value you are providing, and people's propensity to pay for their enjoyment of such.

 

[cleomenes]

I'm sure many see the women's game as a revisit of the open game we remember from the past, and as such, more visually exciting than the crowded and limited men's game. I am only judging from the couple of games televised in the last two years, but both were much more entertaining than the bulk of AFL roster games. I think the players deserve more.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Amateur players are in leagues conveniently placed for them. These women are submitting to a draft process that can place them anywhere.

If I remember correctly don't players get compensation packages if they're asked to move?

No, not really.

The draft was split up into five different state draft pools - Vic, SA, WA, QLD and NSW. The girls had to nominate which of those pools they wanted to go into and they were drafted from that. They didn't have to nominate for the state pool that they live in - indeed Collingwood picked up three WA girls from the draft who obviously nominated the Victorian pool for themselves. We don't know if they did that for opportunity (eg: Freo indicated it didn't want them) or whether they had some preference to play for a Victorian club.

If you're thinking "Well then, given that SA, WA, QLD and NSW only have one team in them, what's the point of the draft for them if their players all come out of their own pool??? " ... Well, you'd be thinking along the right track.

The Marquees who travel (Emma King from WA in our case) probably would have been given some support, but doubt the draftees would have because the move was their choice.

 

[Kappa]

I'm sure many see the women's game as a revisit of the open game we remember from the past, and as such, more visually exciting than the crowded and limited men's game. I am only judging from the couple of games televised in the last two years, but both were much more entertaining than the bulk of AFL roster games. I think the players deserve more.

So an open game is more exciting to you than raw Football skill and insane athleticism?

If the general public find the games exciting they will watch, and if people watch in decent numbers the pay rise will come.

 

[Kappa]

No, not really.

The draft was split up into five different state draft pools - Vic, SA, WA, QLD and NSW. The girls had to nominate which of those pools they wanted to go into and they were drafted from that. They didn't have to nominate for the state pool that they live in - indeed Collingwood picked up three WA girls from the draft who obviously nominated the Victorian pool for themselves. We don't know if they did that for opportunity (eg: Freo indicated it didn't want them) or whether they had some preference to play for a Victorian club.

If you're thinking "Well then, given that SA, WA, QLD and NSW only have one team in them, what's the point of the draft for them if their players all come out of their own pool??? " ... Well, you'd be thinking along the right track.

The Marquees who travel (Emma King from WA in our case) probably would have been given some support, but doubt the draftees would have because the move was their choice.

So the girls really only have to travel a handful of times a year (up to 4 for non-Vics and less for Vics) And none of them were forced to relocate in the draft? That's nowhere near as bad as many have made out.

I think they got a pretty good deal considering some have never really played Football before and others haven't played for over a decade. It's a step in the right direction

 

[76woodenspooners]

I'm talking to the pay gap that exists generally when it comes to male vs female sports, and not necessarily the AFL situation, but what people need to realise is that the amount that players will be paid will generally be linked to the entertainment value derived from the sport; in some way or another.

If a woman is capable of competing skillfully with a man then they should (ideologically) be getting paid the same. If a woman can't perform to the standard of play, then pay falls off a cliff the exact same way that a VFL footballer, local amateur footballer etc.'s pay does.

Competing skillfully doesn't necessarily correspond to entertainment value. Some performers earn more money than those with better skills because they are more attractive, or are more articulate, or more charismatic, or just simply have a better personal brand.

I'd reckon that the most valuable horseflesh in the Holden Centre at the moment (male or female) is Moanna Hope. She is articulate, she is charismatic, she has a wonderful backstory, she can nonchalantly kick a checkside goal from the boundary as well as anybody in the club, and she kicks lots of goals.

Heck, if I was an advertising exec I'd be signing her up right now, because her value is likely to skyrocket over the next three or four years.

 

[Kappa]

Competing skillfully doesn't necessarily correspond to entertainment value. Some performers earn more money than those with better skills because they are more attractive, or are more articulate, or more charismatic, or just simply have a better personal brand.

I'd reckon that the most valuable horseflesh in the Holden Centre at the moment (male or female) is Moanna Hope. She is articulate, she is charismatic, she has a wonderful backstory, she can nonchalantly kick a checkside goal from the boundary as well as anybody in the club, and she kicks lots of goals.

Heck, if I was an advertising exec I'd be signing her up right now, because her value is likely to skyrocket over the next three or four years.

Without meaning to be offensive, this look doesn't scream "highly marketable" to me, nor to an advertising exec either I'd guess. You can speak articulately all you want but history shows the most marketable female athletes are most attractive ones, that's just fact. Maria Sharapova is the 2nd highest earning female athlete of all time and her tennis certainly does not back that up.

What will draw the average Footy bloke's attention to the female league is star attractive players who have a personality, I don't think Hope has better skills or athleticism than her male counterparts so what's the draw card? A few ABC interviews where she speaks well? I don't see how that draws mainstream interest.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Without meaning to be offensive, this look doesn't scream "highly marketable" to me, nor to an advertising exec either I'd guess. You can speak articulately all you want but history shows the most marketable female athletes are most attractive ones, that's just fact. Maria Sharapova is the 2nd highest earning female athlete of all time and her tennis certainly does not back that up.

Sure, there are folks whose marketability is based on punters dreaming of having sex with them.

But that's not the only marketing driver.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Let's see how it plays out.

 

[cleomenes]

It's the football that they play that is marketable. I still yearn for the days of positional play, and at least initially, that is what the women have delivered. I imagine that modern swarming tactics will corrupt their game too, but until that happens, their best games are much more watchable than the average tackle fest that is men's football.

 

[Kappa]

It's the football that they play that is marketable. I still yearn for the days of positional play, and at least initially, that is what the women have delivered. I imagine that modern swarming tactics will corrupt their game too, but until that happens, their best games are much more watchable than the average tackle fest that is men's football.

Do you enjoy the VFL more than the AFL?

VFL games are more open with a lower tackle count

 

[cleomenes]

Do you enjoy the VFL more than the AFL?

VFL games are more open with a lower tackle count

I don't actually see any VFL, I live in Tasmania, but open football, with players in positions instead of a swarm like the under 8's is what I actually enjoy watching. I understand that the fitness and speed in the men's game means that this is gone forever there, so I am looking to the women to provide watchable football, at least for a while.

 

[76woodenspooners]

I don't actually see any VFL, I live in Tasmania, ...

It's a bit of a shame that the Tasmanian government didn't try to get in on the ground floor with a women's team. I know the AFL wanted to align the women's team with the existing clubs, but I would have thought the Tassie government would have had the money, the clout (through stirring up public opinion) and the impetus to get a women's team up. Sure, it would have been a pretty obvious Trogan Horse with which to eventually get a men's team into the national comp, but it still works.

... but open football, with players in positions instead of a swarm like the under 8's is what I actually enjoy watching. I understand that the fitness and speed in the men's game means that this is gone forever there, so I am looking to the women to provide watchable football, at least for a while.

The other thing the women's game will probably have is only 16 players on the field, so that'll probably discourage swarming footy from ever happening.

 

[Vicky Park]

I'd reckon that the most valuable horseflesh in the Holden Centre at the moment (male or female) is Moanna Hope. She is articulate, she is charismatic, she has a wonderful backstory, she can nonchalantly kick a checkside goal from the boundary as well as anybody in the club, and she kicks lots of goals.

Heck, if I was an advertising exec I'd be signing her up right now, because her value is likely to skyrocket over the next three or four years.

I agree with you on this. I also take Kappa's point above, but its not just blokes who will be following the women's footy, as its not just blokes who follow the senior clubs. The women's footy will attract young girls. For the first time, they will have female footy stars to look up to and emulate, as young boys have had for over a century. That is the key to marketing Mo Hope.