Lachie Whitfield testing drama

[Gigantor]

If you don't mind I can explain why I think ASADA is involved, if you do Mods please delete.

The argument is since testing is random, any intention to evade testing is based on the possibility of being test, an actual test might not be needed. You make the decision to evade before you know if you going to be tested and as evasion is an intent offence this is the critical matter, not if there is a test.

Assuming this is the case it would come down to what were his whereabouts time and locations listed with ASADA as to where he was available to be tested, and can ASADA prove he was intentionally not at those locations.

Do the messages therefore provide intent?

If ASADA is involved they believe the answer to the above questions are yes.

This appears to be the relevant ADV in the AFL's anti-doping code:

10.4 Evading, Refusing or Failing to Submit to Sample Collection
Evading Sample collection, or without compelling justification, refusing or failing to submit to Sample collection after notification as authorised in applicable Anti-Doping Rules.

What you have described does not really gel with the wording in the relevant clause.

While I accept there are probably two readings of the above words, one reading is that you can only evade a sample collection where you have been notified that a sample is required.

 

[Muggs]

This appears to be the relevant ADV in the AFL's anti-doping code:

10.4 Evading, Refusing or Failing to Submit to Sample Collection
Evading Sample collection, or without compelling justification, refusing or failing to submit to Sample collection after notification as authorised in applicable Anti-Doping Rules.

What you have described does not really gel with the wording in the relevant clause.

While I accept there are probably two readings of the above words, one reading is that you can only evade a sample collection where you have been notified that a sample is required.

I refer you to the footnnote to that section I provided earlier where evasion includes evading notification. The code itself clarifies the reading.

Them commas can be a pain in trying to figure out what is saying, hence the clarification footnote.

 

[Gigantor]

I refer you to the footnnote to that section I provided earlier where evasion includes evading notification. The code itself clarifies the reading.

Them commas can be a pain in trying to figure out what is saying, hence the clarification footnote.

Yeh, but presumably he's training at the usual spot and he's contactable via the club even if he happened to spend 2 or 3 nights away from home (at a time when there was zero testing being undertaken).

 

[Gigantor]

Just listening to the 3AW podcast where they discuss this matter.

The defence, corroborated by all three, is that Whitfield sent the incriminating texts to his ex-girlfriend as a deliberately concocted story to get her away from him.

As far-fetched as that might sound, it's no more far-fetched than Gubby and Lambert telling Whitfield to spend a few nights at Lambert's just to avoid the remote possibility of getting a first strike.

 

[Muggs]

Yeh, but presumably he's training at the usual spot and he's contactable via the club even if he happened to spend 2 or 3 nights away from home (at a time when there was zero testing being undertaken).

That's a presumption, and could well be the defence.

An alternative is he was kept away from training as he was not playing and to avoid being tested.

I've got no idea what the answer is, hence my question a few posts back about what do his whereabouts say, included in this would be details of his normal routine where he is available for testing such as training, and was he at these locations?

 

[Gigantor]

That's a presumption, and could well be the defence.

An alternative is he was kept away from training as he was not playing and to avoid being tested.

I've got no idea what the answer is, hence my question a few posts back about what do his whereabouts say, included in this would be details of his normal routine where he is available for testing such as training, and was he at these locations?

Fair enough.

Just for info, what is the granularity of detail a player needs to have lodged with ASADA? Is it a 24/7 chart for the forthcoming month(s)?

 

[Muggs]

Fair enough.

Just for info, what is the granularity of detail a player needs to have lodged with ASADA? Is it a 24/7 chart for the forthcoming month(s)?

1 hour per day they guarantee to be available at a set location, between 5am and 11pm. Adjustable up to the last minute, but keep changing at last minute ASADA warns you could be investigated for evading. If you not at the location ASADA needs to make a reasonable attempt to contact you and give you until the end of the hour to show up. The time you have is until end of the hour, not from when they make contact so if they show up with 5mins to go you got minutes to get there.

Than on top of that normal routine, training times, employment etc. where you normally can be found but don't think you held as tightly to this is.

 

[Gigantor]

1 hour per day they guarantee to be available at a set location, between 5am and 11pm. Adjustable up to the last minute, but keep changing at last minute ASADA warns you could be investigated for evading. If you not at the location ASADA needs to make a reasonable attempt to contact you and give you until the end of the hour to show up. The time you have is until end of the hour, not from when they make contact so if they show up with 5mins to go you got minutes to get there.

Than on top of that normal routine, training times, employment etc. where you normally can be found but don't think you held as tightly to this is.

So it sounds like you can stay wherever you want overnight?

 

[Muggs]

So it sounds like you can stay wherever you want overnight?

Yup provided you remember to update your details if needed. Pretty sue you also need to give overnight venues (being regular routine).

Even then if there is a legitimate reason why you can't be there, e.g travel changes, need to travel short term, family emergency etc you can avoid a strike if testers rock up.

The main thing from an atheltes side if you need to change whereabouts don't forget to do it, and don't purposely not update it.

 

[tenderwarrior]

The most confusing thing for me is trying to work out what Whitfield was trying to accomplish by lying to his then-girlfriend about why he was at Lambert's house (drug's rather than the claimed migraine)?

 

[Gigantor]

The most confusing thing for me is trying to work out what Whitfield was trying to accomplish by lying to his then-girlfriend about why he was at Lambert's house (drug's rather than the claimed migraine)?

It's all ridiculous, and if the second lie is the real lie, then of course you are going to be too embarassed to admit it.

But from the word go, none of this makes the slightest bit of sense, including going to great lengths merely to avoid an unlikely first strike.

 

[Determinant]

It's all ridiculous, and if the second lie is the real lie, then of course you are going to be too embarassed to admit it.

But from the word go, none of this makes the slightest bit of sense, including going to great lengths merely to avoid an unlikely first strike.

For me that might be the crux, what if it was a potential 3rd strike?

 

[Andre the Giant]

It's all ridiculous, and if the second lie is the real lie, then of course you are going to be too embarassed to admit it.

But from the word go, none of this makes the slightest bit of sense, including going to great lengths merely to avoid an unlikely first strike.

I think the panic came because of the genuine fear there was a PED via whatever he took. The Collingwood duo both got 2 years and the fear of the same sanction if a test revealed result of the bender clearly caused the panic.

 

[Gigantor]

For me that might be the crux, what if it was a potential 3rd strike?

Yeh, but even then....

 

[Bogan Juniors]

I think the panic came because of the genuine fear there was a PED via whatever he took. The Collingwood duo both got 2 years and the fear of the same sanction if a test revealed result of the bender clearly caused the panic.

If tis is the case all three are in trouble IMO, and may explain the arrival of Delidio

 

[Andre the Giant]

If tis is the case all three are in trouble IMO, and may explain the arrival of Delidio

My early thoughts are that he will get 2 years with the 2nd year being suspended and have to miss 2017.

Anything less than a year will be a blessing now that ASADA are getting involved.

The media with that living corpse leading the charge won't let this go, and the AFL will ensure they over-punish so they are not seen to be favouring their baby. Its like the school teacher that has their own child in their class.

This really makes me sick in the guts as I love this kid...just love the way he plays and always comes across as a top bloke. He is and will always be one of my favourite players....just made a silly mistake.

 

[Orange Agent]

Just listening to the 3AW podcast where they discuss this matter.

The defence, corroborated by all three, is that Whitfield sent the incriminating texts to his ex-girlfriend as a deliberately concocted story to get her away from him.

As far-fetched as that might sound, it's no more far-fetched than Gubby and Lambert telling Whitfield to spend a few nights at Lambert's just to avoid the remote possibility of getting a first strike.

She was apparently overseas though.

 

[Gigantor]

From the AFL website:

"Based on media reports, this appears to be a matter that could either fall under the AFL illicit drugs policy or fall under the ASADA anti-doping policy," Ings told AFL.com.au.

"I am sure both the AFL and ASADA are working cooperatively to identify exactly where these unusual set of circumstances regarding this player actually fall and under which policy this matter should be taken forward, if at all.

"While not drawing any conclusions in regard to this particular matter, in general where an athlete is involved in avoiding anti-doping testing conducted by ASADA, a sanction ranging up to a four-year ban from competition can be imposed."

Whitfield is alleged to have breached either the anti-doping code or illicit drugs policy in 2015 when he avoided drug testers by staying at former Greater Western Sydney welfare manager Craig Lambert's house.​

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

"While not drawing any conclusions in regard to this particular matter, in general where an athlete is involved in avoiding anti-doping testing conducted by ASADA, a sanction ranging up to a four-year ban from competition can be imposed."​

I'm glad he's not drawing any conclusions. But given he didn't actually avoid anything - and certainly not an ASADA test, I don't see where the up-to-four-year-ban can come even close to being on the sanctions list.

 

[Drezdyn]

I'm glad he's not drawing any conclusions. But given he didn't actually avoid anything - and certainly not an ASADA test, I don't see where the up-to-four-year-ban can come even close to being on the sanctions list.

That's right. How can someone avoid a non-existent drug test. If I text a friend saying "I'm going to murder Mr. x...", how can that be incriminating unless Mr. x is actually murdered (unless I send it to Mr. X himself or someone close to him).

 

[Andre the Giant]

I'm glad he's not drawing any conclusions. But given he didn't actually avoid anything - and certainly not an ASADA test, I don't see where the up-to-four-year-ban can come even close to being on the sanctions list.

The major issue is the text messages which is apparently the damming part. They can charge players on suspicion of trying to avoid a test, they do it with cyclists all the time.

Im not agreeing with this, I think its absurd that a career can be ruined for the same crime that self reporting a bender can bring (strike) but unfortunately they've handled it poorly and now will suffer bigger consequences. In my opinion 12 weeks plus a 1 year suspension (suspended) and $20k would be a fair cop but who knows what they think is reasonable.

As we stand today 12 months would be a good result by the sounds of it.

 

[jmac70]

It seems that for once our two clubs want the same outcome! Some great discussion in this thread, except for the contribution of Essendon fans desperate to see some sort connection between this incident and the systematic cheating that happened at their 'club'.

 

[captainMyCaptain]

THE AFL expects a resolution to the Lachie Whitfield case 'in the next week or so' after the young Giant was alleged to have breached the AFL's anti-doping code, says CEO Gillon McLachlan.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-...lachlan?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[Andre the Giant]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-10-...lachlan?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

If that resolution includes draft sanctions against us that affect this draft I will lose my shit.

We have given up so much to get to Pick 2, if that was taken away it would be ridiculous..

 

[captainMyCaptain]

If that resolution includes draft sanctions against us that affect this draft I will lose my shit.

We have given up so much to get to Pick 2, if that was taken away it would be ridiculous..

Caro seems to think that won't be the case and hopefully the fact that once Matthews came aware of the situation we handled it the right way will rule out any draft penalties but as always time will tell.