Autopsy Rd 4 Blues annihilated by 86 points

[Jabba73]

Look there's plenty to be positive about (Charlie, Fisher, etc.) But after 3 years we should be seeing some collective improvement. This year we haven't. Injuries have hurt us indeed, but our depth can't be that bad where the difference between competitive and belted is 2-3 injuries.

How good would the reigning premiers be without Martin, Rance and Cotchin?

 

[Arr0w]

Then there you go.

We've had one rebuild in the modern AFL and it ended in shambles. Fev turning into an off field mess, bad draft picks, horrible trades and the best thing that came of it was a elimination finals win against Richmond.

So forgive me for not being confident in this club. SOS and Bolton seem switched on, but if results don't come I cannot have faith in Carlton to make the smart decisions to get the club on the right track.

Ahhh the results angle

If that is how you judge success, you will linger in failures forever

 

[PP34]

I've said this before and I'll say it again, there is absolutely no reason why we should be abandoning the keep possession, defensive game we had last year.

It is not the right time to try more risk taking, attacking style we just don't have the cattle for it.

Besides, I liked the Barcelona game style. Keep possession, patient construction of our forward entries, frustrate the opposition into making mistakes.

This attacking style has sapped our team of confidence with these shit performances.

Crazy for abandoning it imo. And I still blame it on the suits forcing Bolton to use it.

You risk instilling really defensive mindsets into players if you keep up with the defensive stuff in my opinion.

I don't think there's a clear solution. Guys like Curnow need the attacking footy but on the otherhand, the defence and midfield seem unable to cope with the faster style.

 

[BlueBayou]

My first post. I've been reading as a lurker for a year or two. A bit about me for context. I've been following Carlton FC since Barassi came across. As a 5yo, he was the only footballer I'd ever heard of, so if he was going to Carlton, so was I. I was around when we were arrogant and powerful through the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's. For reference, I have almost never seen a Carlton 2nds side play, including any of Northern Bullants or the current configuration, so am absolutely uninformed about who deserves a game on form. Please leave me out of such discussions.

I was at the Western oval on that infamous day 'a generation ago' (as someone said in another thread) when we kicked - from memory - 4 goals and 20 odd behinds . My memory also says a 16yo Jimmy Buckley made his debut on that day. Our lowest score in my memory and an all round pig of a day in the wind and rain of the Western oval.

It is ingrained in me that CFC is synonymous with success, what our beloved Blues are dishing up at the moment causes visceral reactions from me and has for too long, but the depths we have endured for the past two decades and more is not the first time Carlton has had a bleak period. Through the late teens and early twenties of the 20th century, and then again post WWII we had 20 year periods without success in terms of Premierships. But this is the only period of my life when we have had to endure it. It hurt, it Effing hurts, but we will be back.


What I see in the team which took part at Hobart tonight is a culmination of years of mediocrity. Arrogance told us that the mighty CFC would just simply win through, despite the odds and despite reality. Pagan was a huge mistake, Rattan was not delivering Premierships, so needed to be replaced, Malthouse an unmitigated disaster. Bolton has been a breath of fresh air. Be careful, those who are now wielding knives for him. Mind you I for one am not against a little bit of 'hot gospelling' from a coach a la Ronald Dale to rev the troops up and make them take responsibility for themselves. I don't think Bolts has that in him. He's not the type.

Mediocrity is as habit forming as excellence. Acceptance of mediocrity leads to doubt. Doubt leads to hesitation, fumbling and missing targets. Fumbling and missing targets leads to lack of confidence in oneself and ones teammates. Lack of confidence leads to doubt, which leads to fumbling and missing targets. It is a closed loop.

I am gutted by lack of effort, lack of tackling pressure, by being treated - once again- as witches hats by opposition clubs. I am not a psychologist, I have no idea how to turn around the inner belief of the group of players Bolton has at his disposal, but I know it cannot come from 18 and 19yo's. These young fella's soak up the work ethic and attitude of their seniors. They need to be Simmo's in their whole hearted effort, (occasional mistakes are forgiven if effort is total) but they see too many who play without the same passion. We also need to remember that Simmo had zero possessions in his first 3 games. Give the kids some time.

Ok, enough amateur psychology.

I cannot think of a game in the past where our injury list equals our goals list. Murph, Kennedy, Plowman, Kreuzer.

Crippa was huge till the outcome was inevitable. I don't really blame him, but he seemed to rack the cue in the late stages. A Carlton Captain never concedes.
I thought Dow was better tonight, but needs to not panic with his disposal.
Jack Silvagni is unfortunately, not the player his forefathers were, but I admire his efforts. At least he has a go. I think his future is limited, but should stay in the team for now.
Fisher tried hard, but is not big enough to play the role he is forced to play due to our limited list.
O'Brien looks like a player. Get some games in to him.
Weiters plays without passion. What a pity. Mentally fragile, it seems.
Jones has been found out, but what choice do we have?
I happen to know Az Mullet personally, but please we must have someone who can kick instead. I also happen to vaguely know Cam O'Shea. Same.

The cattle is either inexperienced, injured, lacking confidence or lacking talent. Only one of those is something Bolton can influence.

Keep the faith Bluebaggers

 

[BlueRenaissance]

There is a whole range of things we can argue about: short term wins/losses, kids, injuries, long term success, green shoots, strategy, quality on our list etc.

But the thing that is undeniable is that what we are dishing up is non-competitive and calamity struck. It is just plain embarrassing.

I can wait until 2012/22 for a top 8 spot. Later if need be. I love all the young draftees that we have brought in (not a fan of Polson). I like Bolton a lot too.

What i cant stand is our club being ridiculed and making ridiculous error after error in game. Brown was just giggling out there and smiling; it was infuriating.

A whole season of this and we are back to the insulting Eddie Mguire way of saying Caarlton! We've had enough of that!

Just want respect out there and we have none, zilcho.

 

[PP34]

Ahhh the results angle

If that is how you judge success, you will linger in failures forever

So results don't matter?

I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here. What do you judge success by?

 

[mike ockerts]

Let's go back in a time machine to December 2017 and ask ourselves this question..

If by round 4 we had already seen games missed through injury to:

Murphy
Kennedy
Kruezer
Lang
Byrne
Docherty
Marchbank
Shaw
Rowe
Lobbe
A.Silvagni
Pickett
Williamson
Phillips
Mcdaid

What would our win/loss be?

At this stage of where the club is at in regards to our rebuild, the wins and loses mean sweet FA to me, but what i won't cop is lack of effort and intensity, you put on the CFC jumper, then you damn well play like its a privilege not a given.

 

[Arr0w]

How good would the reigning premiers be without Martin, Rance and Cotchin?

And nonexistent injury list

 

[Soapy V]

To be fair Soapy I dont think anyone questioned the process in year 1 or 2. In fact Carlton people as a whole were very understanding. You are clearly "in the know" more than most and I may be way off, but I expected the trend to start to move up in years 3. Its looking like we are yet to bottom out.

But how can it when we are younger and less experienced? IMO year 3 was always the hardest as we will have the most kids and need to play them

 

[GinTonic]

'Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago' - Warren Buffett.

We have just planted our tree.

 

[Soapy V]

Hawthorn mid 2000s.
Bulldogs a couple of years ago.
Brisbane late 90s.
I could go on...

Nope. All had down periods. None were linear

 

[TD2010]

Yep, just like Ratts, just like Brittain....smart decisions both those were...not!!

Bolton will be coaching next year, we’ve gone the absolute full rebuild and brought in kids and zero mature free agents to replace the quality we moved on for the draft picks for those kids.

It’s what everybody wanted....yet nobody is prepared to take the bad that happens from that.

Board know that, admin know that...most supporters know that

See below:

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/sam-hinkie-explains-sixers-tanking-plan-2015-2?r=US&IR=T

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[PP34]

Mate, we’re pretty much starting from scratch. 43 players turned over in 3 years.

We will be competitive very soon. No disrespect to you, but patience is required mate.

I don't get what that has to do with whether I have confidence in the club or not.

I hate when supporters like you speak in certain terms about success coming. I heard the exact sort of thing back in 2007-2009. They know we're coming, remember?

 

[plentyblckie]

We are a rabble. Instead of playing to our strengths (defensive) we chose to cave in to the media crap of us playing “unsexy” football and adopt a game style that our list has no hope of playing.

We continue to play players who don’t deserve senior games (Dow, Weitering) and think that we are this strong Hawthorn/Sydney side that can carry these players.

We spend all this money poaching David Teague from Adelaide to give us a more dangerous forward line set up - only to have the ball bombed in to packs of nobody up forward.

100% spot on.
We need to look at getting in a couipke of mature mids..even c graders jysy yo tske the load off. U carnt be competitive with fisher samo obrien dow kennedy cunners in yoyr mfield. Its too inexperienced..they carnt sustsin 4 quarters of required agl effort..they dont have the bodies to sustsin continual attacks at the contest. Plentu if issues down back and plenty up forward..but ee r a 4 cylinder gping ip sgainst 6ers and v8s

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

My first post. I've been reading as a lurker for a year or two. A bit about me for context. I've been following Carlton FC since Barassi came across. As a 5yo, he was the only footballer I'd ever heard of, so if he was going to Carlton, so was I. I was around when we were arrogant and powerful through the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's. For reference, I have almost never seen a Carlton 2nds side play, including any of Northern Bullants or the current configuration, so am absolutely uninformed about who deserves a game on form. Please leave me out of such discussions.

I was at the Western oval on that infamous day 'a generation ago' (as someone said in another thread) when we kicked - from memory - 4 goals and 20 odd behinds . My memory also says a 16yo Jimmy Buckley made his debut on that day. Our lowest score in my memory and an all round pig of a day in the wind and rain of the Western oval.

It is ingrained in me that CFC is synonymous with success, what our beloved Blues are dishing up at the moment causes visceral reactions from me and has for too long, but the depths we have endured for the past two decades and more is not the first time Carlton has had a bleak period. Through the late teens and early twenties of the 20th century, and then again post WWII we had 20 year periods without success in terms of Premierships. But this is the only period of my life when we have had to endure it. It hurt, it Effing hurts, but we will be back.


What I see in the team which took part at Hobart tonight is a culmination of years of mediocrity. Arrogance told us that the mighty CFC would just simply win through, despite the odds and despite reality. Pagan was a huge mistake, Rattan was not delivering Premierships, so needed to be replaced, Malthouse an unmitigated disaster. Bolton has been a breath of fresh air. Be careful, those who are now wielding knives for him. Mind you I for one am not against a little bit of 'hot gospelling' from a coach a la Ronald Dale to rev the troops up and make them take responsibility for themselves. I don't think Bolts has that in him. He's not the type.

Mediocrity is as habit forming as excellence. Acceptance of mediocrity leads to doubt. Doubt leads to hesitation, fumbling and missing targets. Fumbling and missing targets leads to lack of confidence in oneself and ones teammates. Lack of confidence leads to doubt, which leads to fumbling and missing targets. It is a closed loop.

I am gutted by lack of effort, lack of tackling pressure, by being treated - once again- as witches hats by opposition clubs. I am not a psychologist, I have no idea how to turn around the inner belief of the group of players Bolton has at his disposal, but I know it cannot come from 18 and 19yo's. These young fella's soak up the work ethic and attitude of their seniors. They need to be Simmo's in their whole hearted effort, (occasional mistakes are forgiven if effort is total) but they see too many who play without the same passion. We also need to remember that Simmo had zero possessions in his first 3 games. Give the kids some time.

Ok, enough amateur psychology.

I cannot think of a game in the past where our injury list equals our goals list. Murph, Kennedy, Plowman, Kreuzer.

Crippa was huge till the outcome was inevitable. I don't really blame him, but he seemed to rack the cue in the late stages. A Carlton Captain never concedes.
I thought Dow was better tonight, but needs to not panic with his disposal.
Jack Silvagni is unfortunately, not the player his forefathers were, but I admire his efforts. At least he has a go. I think his future is limited, but should stay in the team for now.
Fisher tried hard, but is not big enough to play the role he is forced to play due to our limited list.
O'Brien looks like a player. Get some games in to him.
Weiters plays without passion. What a pity. Mentally fragile, it seems.
Jones has been found out, but what choice do we have?
I happen to know Az Mullet personally, but please we must have someone who can kick instead. I also happen to vaguely know Cam O'Shea. Same.

The cattle is either inexperienced, injured, lacking confidence or lacking talent. Only one of those is something Bolton can influence.

Keep the faith Bluebaggers

You picked a fine time for your first post. Welcome to the madhouse, abandon all hope.

Seriously, constructive posting is always most welcome.

 

[berisha]

How good would the reigning premiers be without Martin, Rance and Cotchin?

They wouldn't get belted by Gold Coast and North Melbourne that's for sure.

 

[Gavstar]

Ok that was an all round miserable night. We are getting worse every week not better.

It’s clear that either the players are confused with what the game plan is or don’t have the skills to execute or they lack confidence in it or Bolton has lost them and they are playing as individuals. The first quarter was like 22 headless chooks running around. The casual jogging was driving me crazy. Jones at one stage moved so that he was in the middle of nowhere metres from anyone. Either that’s his instructions or he has NFI and should be dropped.

At one stage there was Bronx cheers from the crowd when a Carlton kicked successfully to Carlton player. So many grubbed kicks and kicks directly to opposition players. Thomas cannot be trusted kicking to a player beyond 20m.Who would you trust in Carlton to hit a player on the chest 40 m away?

Hackysacky - We would just boot the ball forward, kick into the mark.or try and kick out playing into into Norfs hands. In congestion Norf hand passed their way out, then would kick.

Kreuzer looks semi-broken. Is Levi Casboult the worst mark on the team? What has happened his bucket hands are now hands of iron.

SPS was running round the square prior to the bounce not within coee of anyone, if there’s no one on you provide a chopout for your team mates. Rather than Ponca around trying to pad your stats.

Thomas cannot kick reliably ovder 20m he should not be in the team. No more excuses.

Kreuzer is struggling big time he needs a break or he’ll end up broken.

We will lose Cripps if something doesn’t change soon he is an angry footballer at moment.

So many players appear to be worse players than they were last year.

I no longer think the team knows what it stands for.......

 

[The Flying Doormat]

10 scoring shots......

Lucky we have an attacking game plan.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

You risk instilling really defensive mindsets into players if you keep up with the defensive stuff in my opinion.

I don't think there's a clear solution. Guys like Curnow need the attacking footy but on the otherhand, the defence and midfield seem unable to cope with the faster style.

Why is that a bad thing? I'd rather instill a defensive mindset than instill a defeatist mindset.

Like I said, we just don't have the cattle for it yet.

 

[skadoosh]

It's interesting looking at it from a young blokes point of view. Im 53 and clearly remember the glory days of the 80's and 90's and still have this feeling inside we are a great club, probably because of what we achieved during that time. For someone in their 20's it must be devastating I understand. Please don't lose the faith, as hard as I know it is. The worm always turns and I assure you it will.

I was born in 1990. Earliest final I remember is watching us lose to North in 1999. But something I’ll always remember as a kid is a bit of trivia my dad would always tell me is that Carlton’s the only team to have not won a wooden spoon yet. It’s a funny feeling when most of the footy players are younger than you...
Fans born in the 90s probably have it toughest...we only have a few finals wins in our memories....and ton of losses. I’m a patient person...and would never think of changing teams or dropping footy because of the team’s poor performance. But it’s hard seeing loss after loss...I can’t imagine how the players would feel.

 

[ITCHY EYEBALLS]

'Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago' - Warren Buffett.

We have just planted our tree.

Let’s hope someone waters it!

 

[passmark]

It hasn't been the same people in control for 20 years though. It's not a collective brain they install when someone new comes in.

Have a look at the evolution of the board.

It's factions and blocks, some of whom cross generations of the same families .

The clubs a basket case.

Hard to believe that a boring administrator like Trigg is likely to be the best and most innovative we've had since Harris.

Lucky we sacked him for the work experience kid from the Tigers before he could make us a functioning sports enterprise .

 

[BIuebagger]

Middle to end of 2020 is going to be for me the most interesting year in seeing where we are at with this rebuild. A lot of these draftees will be approaching the 50 game mark or past it. What development have they shown in the time frame from now to then? What players from other clubs have we brought in that are going to be a part of "the bigger picture" per se - whether it is FA or un contracted players. What are we doing tactically? Is it suiting the strengths of our players and their development or not? etc.

I have confidence all of those will have positive outcomes for the most part that will start allowing us to become a finals side, and eventually/hopefully a powerhouse. We've got to just stick with it.

 

[berisha]

Are you judging last year on the first four games of the season? That’s what you seem to be doing with this year.

Probably the first half, and we were competitive in the second half. I don't recall being comprehensively beaten by bottom 8 clubs last year. At least not consistently.

 

[thylacine60]

My first post. I've been reading as a lurker for a year or two. A bit about me for context. I've been following Carlton FC since Barassi came across. As a 5yo, he was the only footballer I'd ever heard of, so if he was going to Carlton, so was I. I was around when we were arrogant and powerful through the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's. For reference, I have almost never seen a Carlton 2nds side play, including any of Northern Bullants or the current configuration, so am absolutely uninformed about who deserves a game on form. Please leave me out of such discussions.

I was at there on that infamous day 'a generation ago' (as someone said in another thread) when we kicked - from memory - 4 goals and 20 odd behinds . My memory also says a 16yo Jimmy Buckley made his debut on that day. Our lowest score in my memory and an all round pig of a day in the wind and rain of the Western Oval.

It is ingrained in me that CFC is synonymous with success. What our beloved Blues are dishing up at the moment causes visceral reactions from me and has for too long, but the depths we have endured for the past two decades and more is not the first time Carlton has had a bleak period. Through the late teens and early twenties of the 20th century, and then again post WWII we had 20 year periods without success in terms of Premierships. But this is the only period of my life when we have had to endure it. It hurt, it Effing hurts, but we will be back.


What I see in the team which took part at Hobart tonight is a culmination of years of mediocrity. Arrogance told us that the mighty CFC would just simply win through, despite the odds and despite reality. Pagan was a huge mistake, Rattan was not delivering Premierships, so needed to be replaced, Malthouse an unmitigated disaster. Bolton has been a breath of fresh air. Be careful, those who are now wielding knives for him. Mind you I for one am not against a little bit of 'hot gospelling' from a coach a la Ronald Dale to rev the troops up and make them take responsibility for themselves. I don't think Bolts has that in him. He's not the type.

Mediocrity is as habit forming as excellence. Acceptance of mediocrity leads to doubt. Doubt leads to hesitation, fumbling and missing targets. Fumbling and missing targets leads to lack of confidence in oneself and ones teammates. Lack of confidence leads to doubt, which leads to fumbling and missing targets. It is a closed loop.

I am gutted by lack of effort, lack of tackling pressure, by being treated - once again- as witches hats by opposition clubs. I am not a psychologist, I have no idea how to turn around the inner belief of the group of players Bolton has at his disposal, but I know it cannot come from 18 and 19yo's. These young fella's soak up the work ethic and attitude of their seniors. They need to be Simmo's in their whole hearted effort, (occasional mistakes are forgiven if effort is total) but they see too many who play without the same passion. We also need to remember that Simmo had zero possessions in his first 3 games. Give the kids some time.

Ok, enough amateur psychology.

I cannot think of a game in the past where our injury list equals our goals list. Murph, Kennedy, Plowman, Kreuzer.

Crippa was huge till the outcome was inevitable. I don't really blame him, but he seemed to rack the cue in the late stages. A Carlton Captain never concedes.
I thought Dow was better tonight, but needs to not panic with his disposal.
Jack Silvagni is unfortunately, not the player his forefathers were, but I admire his efforts. At least he has a go. I think his future is limited, but should stay in the team for now.
Fisher tried hard, but is not big enough to play the role he is forced to play due to our limited list.
O'Brien looks like a player. Get some games in to him.
Weiters plays without passion. What a pity. Mentally fragile, it seems.
Jones has been found out, but what choice do we have?
I happen to know Az Mullet personally, but please we must have someone who can kick instead. I also happen to vaguely know Cam O'Shea. Same.

The cattle is either inexperienced, injured, lacking confidence or lacking talent. Only one of those is something Bolton can influence.

Keep the faith Bluebaggers

cheeky bugger not only posts a ripper first effort, he goes and photocopies it..........