2nds Qualifying Final v Williamstown Saturday 1/9/18 at 7pm LIVE on 7

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Get your hand off it mate serious what a crock of s**t of a post
No I won't because I think it is true. I think we are responsible for the free kick differential more than the umpires are screwing us over. You are acting like it is a big stretch to say this when it isn't?
 
I want the 2s to win but they are there for one purpose. To support the seniors. Who cares if they have to rest/manage/leave out players. As long as it achieves the most important goal and that is to help the seniors win.

Very true. And this happens at all clubs at all levels around the country. Hopefully the seniors go all the way, but it is to the detriment of the ressies. Ressies coaches know the reality of what you point out, and although frustrating for them, thats their reality. Oppo teams whose seniors arent in/drop out of finals often have a sudden advantage. Injuries of course play a part for both sides.
Even at this lower level though, OUR listed youth get finals experience ... (Balta/CCJ/Naish/Miller/Stengle/Moore/Baker and even our cat B kid was trying to hold up back pocket job). ... all got finals experience.
The negative of this, its all about the seniors, is its hard for the ressies to not feel somewhat left high and dry, which can affect motivation. Butler coming off at half time after prancing around for limited minutes doesn't send a great "lets get out there win this frgn game as a team" message. But Im sure the players know their reality too.. get to Butlers level and enjoy the fruits.
 
Got smashed by a VFL only team with that much AFL experience. All that talk about depth is rubbish.
I disagree there as there were a lot of first and second year kids out there with immature bodies . Balta was magnificent until he ran out of puff.
CCJ is a baby, Baker has massive upside, Egg(came back from long injury) Miller was disappointing, but conditions didn't suit, Naish has come along way and is raw, Moore is good enough, Stengle classy ,but had a poor day etc etc.
The disappointing players were our more senior blokes who will be moved on i hope-Miles accumulates ,but isn't damaging.The Silky Butterfly and Overdue are weak as......! The top ups were quiet and Aarts and Ballard are good vfl players. Silvestro was outclassed and the rest were not really up to it. Morris is not a leader bc of his stupidity and recklessness on the field.
We missed Townsend and Lloyd who straighten us up and give us flow in our midfield and forward line.Also Wood and lesser players were doing the work the young gun Garthwaite would have been doing.
 

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Got smashed by a VFL only team with that much AFL experience. All that talk about depth is rubbish.
I don't watch VFL. A game earlier in the year that we won easy. I did see us lose the GF in 2017 and last night's game was similar. Willy & Port are good football teams. And being able to create a team on its own merits and not have to fit in half an AFL list looked like a plus. Willy didn't have to play as tall as we did, to get games into CCJ & Ivan. Or bring in players coming off medium term injury.
It seemed like every one of our players had a highlight and then disappeared. Butlers goal, Wombat's mark, E/Smith. Moore ~ had a highlight. Haven't seen Balta play for a while. Geez he's the package. I hope we can keep him. Gunna be a bit starved for opportunity though.
 
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No I won't because I think it is true. I think we are responsible for the free kick differential more than the umpires are screwing us over. You are acting like it is a big stretch to say this when it isn't?
I disagree with your premise. Every player in the league goes at every 50-50 contest pushing the limit of legality. It's not a Richmond thing.

Your argument can't explain why Riewoldt is umpired so differently to boner Brown. It can't explain why over multiple seasons WCE receives positives differentials in Perth but not elsewhere.

It's a fact that there are long term biases in officiating. A major issue we may have now is a toxic relationship that's built between Richmond crowds at the G and the umpiring fraternity. We hate them and I think the feelings now mutual, we must have booed everyone of them off by now!
 
I disagree with your premise. Every player in the league goes at every 50-50 contest pushing the limit of legality. It's not a Richmond thing.

Your argument can't explain why Riewoldt is umpired so differently to boner Brown. It can't explain why over multiple seasons WCE receives positives differentials in Perth but not elsewhere.

It's a fact that there are long term biases in officiating. A major issue we may have now is a toxic relationship that's built between Richmond crowds at the G and the umpiring fraternity. We hate them and I think the feelings now mutual, we must have booed everyone of them off by now!
Of course the umps are neutral (up to a point.) And yes we give away free more than for some reason, and Brown gets a lot of free's because his arms are so long and the only way to stop him is to push and chop him, but that doesn't as you say explain why we get so few frees. The last few weeks we only received about 10 free's. That is not many. And last night in the last wasn't it about 24-7 at some stage. 7 free's is not many whether we are rougher than some or not. We don't get many it seems. Why?
 
Not sure what people were expecting of Butler, but he is not a seconds footballer. You need to win your own ball at VFL level, and that is one thing Butler doesn't do. He is good on the wide expanses of the G, and he is important due to the speed he covers ground, both defensively and offensively, and he has neat and clever skills, but he won't find form in the 2's. Big gamble to bring him back to replace Conca or Ellis or ?? (given Lambert will probably take Higgin's spot).
 
I disagree with your premise. Every player in the league goes at every 50-50 contest pushing the limit of legality. It's not a Richmond thing.

Your argument can't explain why Riewoldt is umpired so differently to boner Brown. It can't explain why over multiple seasons WCE receives positives differentials in Perth but not elsewhere.

It's a fact that there are long term biases in officiating. A major issue we may have now is a toxic relationship that's built between Richmond crowds at the G and the umpiring fraternity. We hate them and I think the feelings now mutual, we must have booed everyone of them off by now!
The only one I agree with is Riewoldt being judged more harshly than his peers. I really don't know why he is treated like this, but apart from that I think we are penalised according to the rule book most of the time and do not receive free kicks as much as others because of what the rules are.

Yes, Richmond supporters may get under the skin of umpires, but if this is happening no matter where we go, who we play and what league this is, then I think it has more to do with how we play rather than bias umpiring, even if my reasoning is incorrect. We can agree that our VFL side get a similar treatment to the AFL side (we have only won the free kick count 4 times this season), so did the VFL side also get under the umpire's skin? It isn't the conclusion I'd reach. The common ground between our VFL and AFL sides is the way we play.

Even if my explanation as to why we lose the free kick count is incorrect, I believe that the premise of the unfavourable free kick count has something to do with us and the way we play rather than the umpires hating us. I just don't think the umpires at VFL and AFL are conspiring to make us lose, because I do not see a specific and obvious reason why we'd be targeted. That theory just does not make sense to me.
 
The only one I agree with is Riewoldt being judged more harshly than his peers. I really don't know why he is treated like this, but apart from that I think we are penalised according to the rule book most of the time and do not receive free kicks as much as others because of what the rules are.

Yes, Richmond supporters may get under the skin of umpires, but if this is happening no matter where we go, who we play and what league this is, then I think it has more to do with how we play rather than bias umpiring, even if my reasoning is incorrect. We can agree that our VFL side get a similar treatment to the AFL side (we have only won the free kick count 4 times this season), so did the VFL side also get under the umpire's skin? It isn't the conclusion I'd reach. The common ground between our VFL and AFL sides is the way we play.

Even if my explanation as to why we lose the free kick count is incorrect, I believe that the premise of the unfavourable free kick count has something to do with us and the way we play rather than the umpires hating us. I just don't think the umpires at VFL and AFL are conspiring to make us lose, because I do not see a specific and obvious reason why we'd be targeted. That theory just does not make sense to me.
How exactly do we play that results in the free kick imbalance. Genuine question, because I'd like to believe like you that umps are generally fair.
 

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How exactly do we play that results in the free kick imbalance. Genuine question, because I'd like to believe like you that umps are generally fair.
Although I am no expert in Aussie Rules, I believe that our negative free kick differential is because we are not that great in physical and aerial contests but will not concede contested possessions/marks without giving it everything we have. Therefore, we end up getting the opposition high, pushing them in the back or chopping their arms more often than other sides. This is why I think we end up conceding a lot of free kicks. On the flip side the opposition don't do this as much because they are either good at physical/aerial contests or do not try everything they can to prevent themselves from conceding a contested possession. Also, we don't get a lot of holding the ball free kicks either because I think we tend to apply pressure immediately after an opposition player takes possession of the ball. It is then deemed that the opposition player had no prior opportunity so the ball is thrown up in the air. In contrast, other teams don't tend to have as high of a pressure rating as us when we are at full flight, meaning that they allow us to make a move before laying a tackle. Thus, they end up with more holding the ball free kicks than we do.

Not all of these are applicable every single week that we play though, meaning that the amount of free kicks we concede fluctuate. Some weeks we do a lot of these things, some weeks we don't. The way we play though is largely the same across the year.

Again, the reasons I brought here are only theories about why we concede a lot of free kicks, but I just do not subscribe to the theory that the free kick differential is some sort of a match-fixing conspiracy by the umpires if it happens everywhere we play and at both VFL and AFL. Yes, there are some ridiculous games in umpiring like the Round 1 game against Carlton, but I think that the differential is largely just a product of how we play.
 
Dunno if anyone’s mentioned it but egg smith looks like he can play the game , dropped an early dolly mark that cost a goal , after that , looked the goods . With a big pre season under the belt and further improvement he just might be a player
Smith would never have played anything remotely like the pressure that was on last night. He played a couple of Bendigo Pioneers games last season and the season before local Sunraysia footy. Don't know what the league was like where he played before getting a few games at VFL, but you can bet it wouldn't have been anything like last night. Also, almost no footy this season, playing him last night in front of perhaps some more deserving VFL boys would have put extra pressure on, probably didn't do him any favours. If he is selected next week, at least last night is out of the way.
 
Not many players really put hand up


In all honesty probably a bit late to be putting your hand up now. If your not Lloyd or garthwaite (lambert and Butler aside) you are next to no chance of getting in the side now. Coaches have settled on their best 26 and those 4 names i mentioned are the last 4
 
In all honesty probably a bit late to be putting your hand up now. If your not Lloyd or garthwaite (lambert and Butler aside) you are next to no chance of getting in the side now. Coaches have settled on their best 26 and those 4 names i mentioned are the last 4

Always worth putting your hand up, injuries can occur at any time in any number - that would be most Club's ethos I would think.
 

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