Bluemour Discussion Thread XI - Facts Not Welcome

[passmark]

Let’s get 2 state league list cloggers to replace the ones we just delisted

who's fault that we picked them up?

Can't have it both ways.

The issue with state league players is nobody wants to give up a good pick for them.

If this is a free hit we get to use it on the best state league player we can identify, not the one we hope slips to us.

Last year we were into Kelly but he didn't get to us.

Is anyone arguing Kelly would not be an asset right now for us? Taken at 24, probably still only a pick in the late teens to us but to a team challenging he might be worth more than McLovin who we are now frothing over AND who many were prepared to hand over the priority pick.

 

[Space Cadet]

There would definitely be some clubs, particularly those that think they're in the premiership window, that would be interested in trading to secure a mature age draftee they have in their sights (ie that they already planned to draft)

 

[mike ockerts]

 

[FairKouta]

Has shiel woken up yet ?
What time does he usually have breakfast ?

 

[Zlatan]

Think that is a generalization

We short changed Betts, 50 K a year, yet offered Thomas considerably more.

Staggeringly list management decision

SOS, may have also offered similar to Betts, but I doubt he or any other team, would have offered Thomas the deal he got

Yep - Thomas goes down as one of the biggest busts in trade history. We waited 5 years for him to be able to kick over 35 metres and now he's still on the list because we don't have many players his age. Travesty.

 

[ESKIE]

I’d be surprised too

Not taking anything away from RB but happy to be pleasantly surprised !

 

[blue healer]

Think that is a generalization

We short changed Betts, 50 K a year, yet offered Thomas considerably more.

Staggeringly list management decision

SOS, may have also offered similar to Betts, but I doubt he or any other team, would have offered Thomas the deal he got

Fair enough but I was one who wanted Betts to stay and I can assure you that, other than MEB, I received little support.

It's history now but that is my memory.

 

[ferrisb]

Furthermore.......

Grand Finalists, don't have any PP players running this weekend

Technically correct, but I think inaccurate in practice.

Pendelbury (while not selected with a PP) is the player Collingwood would have missed out on if not given PP in 2005.

Josh Kennedy same for Carlton. And while he wasn't given to WC, he has turned out to be one helluva player.

Those two are their sides' best players for the last decade. So it shows how big a bonus a pointy end PP could have been...

Not saying we wan't/need one. Just debunking the theory that a PP doesn't change much....

 

[ESKIE]

Tell Lukosious will give him an extra 200k per year for the first two years if he elects not to participate in draft and stays a SANFL player and we take him with pick 1 in the PSD.

Don’t nominate for the draft and we’ll guarantee you get to Adelaide

Is that tampering

 

[jimsta10]

Does RoyalBlues share the same physio as PooMonkey?

 

[Gavstar]

Fair to say that there was probably not one person on this board that felt we were overpaying for Daisy. All I recall was euphoria.

Taking a player who only played 5 games in 2013 vs keeping Eddie Betts? Lol, I would say most of the board thought this was an insane ploy to get Malthouse to the club.

Can always remember his first kick against his old team, a shocker just like the trade.

 

[ShanDog]

Carlton has released a statement - “As a club we’re appreciative of the assistance provided by the AFL and it is now incumbent to the club to facilitate list management outcomes in the best interests of the Carlton Football Club.”

I would either be amazing or terrible at running a media department. Instead of the above, my official statement would just be this:

 

[Blue and Blue]

Let’s get 2 state league list cloggers to replace the ones we just delisted

Or maybe they can play a bit... or in a season where the best 22 isn't half injured they get to play in the seconds and make their claim for promotion. In other words some depth. Or we trade them on for picks and for what really is the key. Our long term sustained improvement will come from mid draft. Never does one from the top ten make a difference between a premiership and a wooden spoon but several from lower down can.

 

[raymagoo]

Does RoyalBlues share the same physio as PooMonkey?

Easily my fave bigfooty memory

 

[gardiner stand]

Tom Stewart

Wasn’t he playing suburban or country footy? I think Scarlett was coaching him and that’s how they found him.
Sure there’s players but it’s bloody hard to find them

 

[Tushay]

IF Shiel want to come, then with the loss of Kelly looming, I wonder if GWS will insist on a pick this year (rather then our mooted preference of next year's first).

That will make things interesting, and almost certainly means pick #1 must be put on the table.

The following goes on points value, which I know is debatable but at last an objective reference point. Also takes Lynch compo into account.

Pick 1 (3000) to GWS for Pick 13 (1212) & Shiel (values Shiel at c. pick 7)

Pick 13 to Adelaide for McGovern & Pick 37

Pick 25 & 37 to GWS for Setterfield (values him c. pick 12)

Keep the State PP, and pick 26.

We've got the kids. So bring in Shiel, Setterfield, McGovern, 2 x state league players.

 

[footyfan1978]

Tell Lukosious will give him an extra 200k per year for the first two years if he elects not to participate in draft and stays a SANFL player and we take him with pick 1 in the PSD.

I do not think that nonsense can happen. I not seen the exact new rules regarding state league players but there is no way it is intended for teenagers playing state league. The national draft is their pathway, the more mature aged guys in 20's is what I am sure this is aimed at. It is a bit annoying we not had time to research fully all the players options in depth for this new thing. Although I suspect SOS and his team will be all over it see best options in coming weeks.

There are a lot of very good footballers over the years to not hit league level until in their 20's.
Tim Kelly just this year shows every couple of years a real quality player develops far better in his early 20's than he was as a teenager. Sam Mitchell another from a generation back. I do not think every year will throw up such quality but if you look around a Liam Ryan, Tom Stewart, Bailey Fritsch and Willie Rioli type guys are nothing to sneeze at if you get opportunity to grab one before a national draft.

Think of the path the Australian Football Hall of Famer, Wayne Johnston came to our club.... He was playing VFA football the year before he played in our 1979 premiership team. When Alex Jesaulenko arrived at Carlton from ACT league, how old was he ?
Food for thought...

Edit after looking up ages Carlton greats Dominaor and Jezza made debuts for us....

Alex Jesaulenko
(Debut:21y 256d)

Wayne Johnston
(Debut:21y 102d )

 

[bigdog43]

My phone battery is cooked and it’s not even 11am

 

[Blue and Blue]

I do not think that nonsense can happen. I not seen the exact new rules regarding state league players but there is no way it is intended for teenagers playing state league. The national draft is their pathway, the more mature aged guys in 20's is what I am sure this is aimed at. It is a bit annoying we not had time to research fully all the players options in depth for this new thing. Although I suspect SOS and his team will be all over it see best options in coming weeks.

There are a lot of very good footballers over the years to not hit league level until in their 20's.
Tim Kelly just this year shows every couple of years a real quality player develops far better in his early 20's than he was as a teenager. Sam Mitchell another from a generation back. I do not think every year will throw up such quality but if you look around a Liam Ryan, Tom Stewart, Bailey Fritsch and Willie Rioli type guys are nothing to sneeze at if you get opportunity to grab one before a national draft.

Think of the path the Australian Football Hall of Famer, Wayne Johnston came to our club.... He was playing VFA football the year before he played in our 1979 premiership team. When Alex Jesaulenko arrived at Carlton from ACT league, how old was he ?
Food for thought...

And Paul Meldreum just rocked up to training so the story goes from playing down at Princes Hill.

 

[gardiner stand]

Let’s reassee for a minute.
There’s a myth that we need mature players to help the kids.
Bullshit, we need mature best 22 players to help us become a sustained competitive team able to challenge for flags.
2 state league players will do sfa for us in the long term.
What happens when,murphy Simpson,kruze,Thomas retire in the next year or 2?
We’ll be back to square one in 2 years.

 

[PooMonkey]

Does RoyalBlues share the same physio as PooMonkey?

How dare you place me in the same category as RoyalBlues....
This whole Bluemour thread is here because of my Port Melbourne physio visit, you can thank me anytime you like

 

[RoyalBlues]

Does RoyalBlues share the same physio as PooMonkey?

Trying to rub me up the wrong way? [emoji1303]

 

[RoyalBlues]

How dare you place me in the same category as RoyalBlues....
This whole Bluemour thread is here because of my Port Melbourne physio visit, you can thank me anytime you like

Thanks for distancing yourself from me; I appreciate it [emoji41]

 

[footyfan1978]

Greg Williams and Gary Ablett also did not hit the football spotlight until they were turning 21. Just highlights thinking gun footballers should be stand outs in their year of turning 18, that is their draft year, is blinkered thinking by industry on the whole. This new rule great for guys developing much more out of their teenage years. Clubs will get out of mentality of total focus on all the kids turning 18. More time and money investment will be put into tracking how guys going that hitting their 20's.

 

[Tushay]

Let’s reassee for a minute.
There’s a myth that we need mature players to help the kids.
Bullshit, we need mature best 22 players to help us become a sustained competitive team able to challenge for flags.
2 state league players will do sfa for us in the long term.
What happens when,murphy Simpson,kruze,Thomas retire in the next year or 2?
We’ll be back to square one in 2 years.

That depends entirely on who we select from the state leagues, or how we use those concessions to attract mature talent. You're assuming the worst case scenario.