Analysis 2019 List Management Discussion

[THE_GUN]

Tuohy is a good footballer but nothing more. Looks great with the ball in hand, but is and always has been suspect defensively.

Our fortunes aren't changing much if you add him back into the side.

Things obviously didn't work out with Smedts but he was a free hit, and not our top target in that trade. We were keen on a payer from the Cats (he was, from memory, third or fourth in line) and you'd suspect taking him on may have been due to salary cap reasons. Either way he was not an integral part of the trade.

We were committed to Marchbank, so what were we to do if not sacrifice Tuohy? Give up the rights to SPS?

No thanks.

Also with the benefit of hindsight

Tuohy would not have made any difference to ladder position last year and probably wont in 2019/2020 either so by the time Carlton really need him to be part of a finals team he would be 31+ years old.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I'll say it again - the SPS side of the equation is your construction - I doubt very much that SOS has shown any tendency what so ever towards being bluffed by anyone - Marchbank wanted out of GWS - a deal was done involving Geelong's first rounder + Smedts - a huge difference between pick#6.

No need to bag Tuohy - he is one of the games best attacking rebound kicks and runners - what we desperately lack.

As you said earlier - at the time we'd have felt we were pretty well stocked for rebounding defenders. Cards may not have fallen exactly our way since then, with Docherty, Byrne and Willo suffering significant setbacks, but I can understand the club thinking that cashing in on Tuohy was the right move.

In hindsight, maybe we could have gone about it differently. How would you have suggested we secure Marchbank, and what flow-on effects would that have had?

 

[Jeremias]

I'll say it again - the SPS side of the equation is your construction - I doubt very much that SOS has shown any tendency what so ever towards being bluffed by anyone - Marchbank wanted out of GWS - a deal was done involving Geelong's first rounder + Smedts - a huge difference between pick#6.

No need to bag Tuohy - he is one of the games best attacking rebound kicks and runners - what we desperately lack.

The potential road-block to the trade was widely reported at the time. They wanted a first, we didn't want to give up pick 5, so we had to find another way to get the trade done. How would you have done it?

And I'm not sure where I "bagged" Tuohy - was it where I said he's a good footballer? He is a beautiful kick but he struggled defensively at Carlton and that hasn't changed much at Geelong.

 

[HARKER]

I'll say it again - the SPS side of the equation is your construction - I doubt very much that SOS has shown any tendency what so ever towards being bluffed by anyone - Marchbank wanted out of GWS - a deal was done involving Geelong's first rounder + Smedts - a huge difference between pick#6.

No need to bag Tuohy - he is one of the games best attacking rebound kicks and runners - what we desperately lack.

I don't think it's quite his construction at all.
GWS wanted that pick and maybe throw a little back at us, but they wanted to keep Marchbank....The did not want him gone and rated him highly.
Don't forget that Marchbank was originally taken at #6 also.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The potential road-block to the trade was widely reported at the time. They wanted a first, we didn't want to give up pick 5, so we had to find another way to get the trade done. How would you have done it?

And I'm not sure where I "bagged" Tuohy - was it where I said he's a good footballer? He is a beautiful kick but he struggled defensively at Carlton and that hasn't changed much at Geelong.

He is just as good defensively as probably any of our defenders have shown bar maybe Plow.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I don't think it's quite his construction at all.
GWS wanted that pick and maybe throw a little back at us, but they wanted to keep Marchbank....The did not want him gone and rated him highly.
Don't forget that Marchbank was originally taken at #6 also.

I can’t quite remember but we only had a future second to play with anyway????
It was bloody tough to see how to get that trade done without it hurting us in some way.

 

[Jeremias]

He is just as good defensively as probably any of our defenders have shown bar maybe Plow.

That's not exactly a glowing endorsement given how poor we were defensively last year.

 

[TooBlue14]

I’m not overly worried about Marchbank. His injury is very minor. Clearly with him running on the track. It probably requires pain relief and is annoyingly uncomfortable which is not allowing him to extend himself. If this minor surgery works he should be right for JLT. let alone round 1.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

That's not exactly a glowing endorsement given how poor we were defensively last year.

It’s more just about how not many defenders are really that great of actually defending anyway. Not many small defenders offer as much as he does offensively and are good lock down defenders.

 

[JustaBattler]

I don't think it's quite his construction at all.
GWS wanted that pick and maybe throw a little back at us, but they wanted to keep Marchbank....The did not want him gone and rated him highly.
Don't forget that Marchbank was originally taken at #6 also.

Congratulations - you are a boni fide mind reader!

 

[I bleed Blue]

All we have to do is get Marchys body right.

I'm sold on his ability.

Will be our best defender or equal best with doc.

 

[Mr_Plow]

All we have to do is get Marchys body right.

I'm sold on his ability.

Will be our best defender or equal best with doc.

People forget quickly. When he came back last year after missing games, we were instantly a much better team.

Would suck should his health deteriorate.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Marchbank / Doc / Weitering as the core of the backline going forward.

Then fill with solid citizens-
Plowman
Williamson
Schumacher
Jones
Goddard
Garlett

If all our midfielders come on then not against playing one of them as a running half back. IE Cunningham/ SPS.

 

[I bleed Blue]

People forget quickly. When he came back last year after missing games, we were instantly a much better team.

Would suck should his health deteriorate.

Would suck big time. 2017 we saw into the future of our backline.

If any combination of Doc/ Marchbank/ Willow don't get their bodies right it will be depressingly disappointing. We had/have the makings of the best backline in the league.

Crossing all my fingers and toes for the above three.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Would suck big time. 2017 we saw into the future of our backline.

If any combination of Doc/ Marchbank/ Willow don't get their bodies right it will be depressingly disappointing. We had/have the makings of the best backline in the league.

Crossing all my fingers and toes for the above three.

Yep a couple of years ago I was unbelievably excited about our backline. Can’t ever remember being so content. I thought we would have at very least three A graders back there.
Now every single one of them have huge question marks hanging over them. It really could go either way

 

[JustaBattler]

As you said earlier - at the time we'd have felt we were pretty well stocked for rebounding defenders. Cards may not have fallen exactly our way since then, with Docherty, Byrne and Willo suffering significant setbacks, but I can understand the club thinking that cashing in on Tuohy was the right move.

In hindsight, maybe we could have gone about it differently. How would you have suggested we secure Marchbank, and what flow-on effects would that have had?

I don't rate Marchbank as highly as some do based on performance to date at Carlton - and it is difficult for me to change my mind because he is injured a lot. If you ask me today knowing what I know today - I would say better to keep Tuohy and not waste a year on Smedts. If you read what I said back then on Tuohy - I said it was a the first mistake SOS has made and it was a big one. I rated Tuohy as genuine Carlton - always played well in a very 'understaffed' defensive structure - to put it kindly. I also believed he was a significant role model to both Byrne ( now gone) and Sheehan (gone too) - not to mention the other highly rated Irish kid who left quietly.

As I said before though - mistakes happen and Marchbank is young enough ( as is Pickett) to become good players for Carlton and no one could foresee the injury issues the Club has copped in smaller defenders - picking up Newman obviously is an attempt to adress lack of depth there and other players might be repurposed into a role that is badly lacking class and depth.

 

[Jeremias]

It’s more just about how not many defenders are really that great of actually defending anyway. Not many small defenders offer as much as he does offensively and are good lock down defenders.

He seems to get caught out a fair bit. Teams love dragging him to the square if they can.

I’m not sure we’re having the discussion if the injuries hadn’t hit as hard as they have.

As I said, good player, but he’s not making much of a difference to us overall.

 

[HARKER]

Congratulations - you are a boni fide mind reader!

Look back and you may find some quality info that came into this board.
Maybe there may be other reasons some may know some info here or there, that doesn't require mind-reading.

You must think about these things before launching an attack.

 

[norway blue]

I don't rate Marchbank as highly as some do based on performance to date at Carlton - and it is difficult for me to change my mind because he is injured a lot. If you ask me today knowing what I know today - I would say better to keep Tuohy and not waste a year on Smedts. If you read what I said back then on Tuohy - I said it was a the first mistake SOS has made and it was a big one. I rated Tuohy as genuine Carlton - always played well in a very 'understaffed' defensive structure - to put it kindly. I also believed he was a significant role model to both Byrne ( now gone) and Sheehan (gone too) - not to mention the other highly rated Irish kid who left quietly.

As I said before though - mistakes happen and Marchbank is young enough ( as is Pickett) to become good players for Carlton and no one could foresee the injury issues the Club has copped in smaller defenders - picking up Newman obviously is an attempt to adress lack of depth there and other players might be repurposed into a role that is badly lacking class and depth.

And a good kick outside 50 on goal .


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[gbatman]

If Marchbank was able to stay fit he alone would have been enough to trade Tuohy for. We were at the beginning of a long rebuild, why keep a half back flanker who will be at the end of his career or retired when we are up and about next ahead of a clutch of young talent? That sort of conservatism has no place in a full rebuild, particularly with rebuilding clubs having less resources handed to them now.

It really shouldn't take too much to replace Tuohy, he's a good player but good half back flankers aren't uncommon. It's not an area our recruitment have put high priority on yet as we have focused mainly on the key areas (talls and midfielders) which is the correct way to build a side. We've had a few attempts at picking up a few cheap small/medium backs and ones with late picks because sometimes they work out.

With Docherty fit, Williamson fit, Simpson up and going there is no need for Tuohy. If Marchbank is fit he's a top line player and he still may be that for us this season. Pickett was worth recruiting, he hasn't worked out, not the recruiters fault, it's not over for him but it's not looking good. SPS alone also makes this move worthwhile as he will be a big part of our future.

It's like the Gibbs move which will be good for us long term, we've got plenty out of it and if we can get these players fit we will be miles ahead.

Touhy is not a part of our future, he would not be having a great influence on our results and trading him has allowed us to pick up players who should be a big part of our future. It's only because we have injuries we are even discussing this and if we have been unlucky enough to still be in need of a good half back next season then surely we can find one who fits our age profile and quality.

 

[JustaBattler]

Look back and you may find some quality info that came into this board.
Maybe there may be other reasons some may know some info here or there, that doesn't require mind-reading.

You must think about these things before launching an attack.

No attack meant at all - just my reaction to what you said. you'd have to be a mind reader to come up with such an argument OR have been told that was the case by the person who actually made the decision.

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Marchbank obviously has a lot of ability but I don't think he's a certainty to furnish into the A-grader that a lot of other Carlton supporters presume he will.

For mine the three main queries on him are:

- Attitude/commitment (just a couple of things he's been quoted as saying in the past have caused me to raise half an eyebrow).
- Disposal under pressure (can seriously shank the ball at times).
- Possibly slightly soft (has dropped a few marks when backing into packs expecting contact).

Throw in his injury issues and there's a bit of doubt on him.

Probably going to be an unpopular post but just how I see it, hoping he can have a big season and really showcase his talents.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Apparently Tuohy wasn't Carlton enough to stay though. He wanted more money when all said and done. And the move was his choice. I always thought he was a handy bloke and at times very exciting but hardly a star. Which perhaps said a lot about how awful we had become. But he was also very flawed in the basics of the game and a bit of a one trick pony. I liked what he gave us in strength and run but there was a lot of mistakes to go with it.
So we did what could be done under those circumstances. I really dont think keeping Touhy at the price he wanted was the way to go with a rebuild and I doubt very much with him still here we would have achieved any more premiership points than what has eventuated.

 

[HARKER]

No attack meant at all - just my reaction to what you said. you'd have to be a mind reader to come up with such an argument OR have been told that was the case by the person who actually made the decision.

Sorry. The state of play was tense and GWS didn't want to give up Marchbank as cheaply as they did in the end. They wanted our #6 badly.

That may have been the first time GWS really dug their heels in and as we saw this year with Shiel.... They don't want to be pushovers any more.

 

[norway blue]

Marchbank obviously has a lot of ability but I don't think he's a certainty to furnish into the A-grader that a lot of other Carlton supporters presume he will.

For mine the three main queries on him are:

- Attitude/commitment (just a couple of things he's been quoted as saying in the past have caused me to raise half an eyebrow).
- Disposal under pressure (can seriously shank the ball at times).
- Possibly slightly soft (has dropped a few marks when backing into packs expecting contact).

Throw in his injury issues and there's a bit of doubt on him.

Probably going to be an unpopular post but just how I see it, hoping he can have a big season and really showcase his talents.

I just want him to get over his injuries and play 18 games this season . Then
we will know.


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