Review Bad, Ugly, and Horrendous vs Hawks

[Pea Nut]

I guess that depends on what type of coaching you mean.

The loss was simply down to our forward 50 structure and entry.pur fumbly, slow and completely inept movement did the damage.

So in terms of not getting their heads in the right place to execute, well yes i guess that is their responsibility.

However came up with your f50 structure and transition should be nervous though, that was disgraceful.

Coaching, as in game plan. We lost it there and then and was what I was most concerned with going in to this game. The template exists to beat Hawthorn. Forward 50 structure looked a problem because of what was happening further up the ground. Hawthorn controlled our forward 50 with defenders exactly where they wanted them and with our continual high, slow forward 50 entries continued to intercept mark. We needed to have numbers around the contest and to run in numbers and handball and freewheel forward. Instead we were so focussed on keeping our structure behind the ball that we tried to pick our way through the Hawks zone which is exactly what the Hawks wanted and expected us to do. And when our skills were as bad as they were we were zero chance of beating them.

 

[Vhaluus]

I think people are being overly harsh on JJ.

I haven't been a fan of historically but I think he did alright with what he could control yesterday.

Ok he didn't kick goals, but he's not in charge of that terrible forward structure.

What he did do was compete his ass off and was one of our only forwards chasing and tackling. He laid a number of really strong tackles that should probably have been holding the ball. He wasn't just chasing and tackling in our forward 50 either but right across the ground.

Effort and toughness wise JJ gets a tick for mine and that's where my question marks over him have always been.

 

[Slippery Pete]

You don't need to be a good contested marker to win a 1-1 battle. Tex and JJ do it with body work. Problem is we get very little 1-1's and every bloody forward runs for the ball.

Is this a joke?

You’ll die waiting for Tex and Jenkins to win a one-on-one contest. They’re ground covering, death-by-a-thousand-cuts forwards. They don’t prosper unless there is really clean ball coming in and they’re metres in front of their opponent, or they get in behind the defence.

This is why their bad and good games more often than not coincide. The game has to be played on certain terms, tactically, for them to prosper.

 

[Vhaluus]

I think you're far too dismissive of yesterday's loss.

We're most probably going to be underdogs in our next three games

Sydney (A)
Geelong (H)
North (A)

If we're going to do anything substanial this year will we need to be 2-2 after round 4, at a minimum. If we continue playing how we did yesterday we'll be 0-4 and no one comes back from that.

we're somehow slim favorites vs Sydney atm. Likely due to their notorious slow starts

 

[Juddernaut08]

what's up with the midfield? crouch crouch and sloane back to dominant numbers but still not enough?

 

[Vhaluus]

The lack of long kicking from Smith was truly puzzling too. Why the heck is he handballing it more than he's kicking? I reckon he only had one kick from the kick ins where he let lose and it led to a shot on goal within 30 seconds after. It's a genuine weapon, but we seemed to be obsessed with handballs and short kicks through the back half. It's safe play, but that's not what made us a good team.

He's likely just following faulty coaching instructions

 

[Bicks]

He’s a big slug who should with his speed be mobile, but he’s not. He uses it when he is going for Joe the Goose goals but when else does he show it?

With his size and speed he should be very hard to stop on the lead but how often does he?

Sorry mate you said JJ is immobile that is patently incorrect, JJ IS NOT immobile. He has his faults but IMMOBILE he is not.

 

[Vhaluus]

what's up with the midfield? crouch crouch and sloane back to dominant numbers but still not enough?

our inside mids were fine, but we had no quality on the outside to spread to.

 

[GreyCrow]

The lack of long kicking from Smith was truly puzzling too. Why the heck is he handballing it more than he's kicking? I reckon he only had one kick from the kick ins where he let lose and it led to a shot on goal within 30 seconds after. It's a genuine weapon, but we seemed to be obsessed with handballs and short kicks through the back half. It's safe play, but that's not what made us a good team.

Especially against a team as disciplined as Hawthorn

Once you have your short kick to the shallow pocket there is only one place the ball is going next. Down the line to 50

Rinse and repeat

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Coaching, as in game plan. We lost it there and then and was what I was most concerned with going in to this game. The template exists to beat Hawthorn. Forward 50 structure looked a problem because of what was happening further up the ground. Hawthorn controlled our forward 50 with defenders exactly where they wanted them and with our continual high, slow forward 50 entries continued to intercept mark. We needed to have numbers around the contest and to run in numbers and handball and freewheel forward. Instead we were so focussed on keeping our structure behind the ball that we tried to pick our way through the Hawks zone which is exactly what the Hawks wanted and expected us to do. And when our skills were as bad as they were we were zero chance of beating them.

When we've lost 10 of the last 11 games agains the Hawks .....there's definetly an issue of coaching / gameplan

 

[CrowBloke]

Kane had a segment on how Clarkson set up in defence. Basically our players had no where to kick to, they were trying to kick to the right spots but Clarkson had his defenders plugging the holes but we still kept kicking to the same spots.
And because our forwards are poor markers and one on one, we were smashed in there. None of our forwards smash the packs or can take a mark. We need to change the mix.

Gunston just said on Ch9 that they planned to pressure, then just set up behind the ball and run out on the rebound, which they did near-perfectly all game.
Thinking back, didn't we do that in 2017 and get a lot of goals on rebound/turnovers as well as out-the-back? Our possession game and precision-kicking to running and overlapping players used to be a thing of beauty.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

The lack of long kicking from Smith was truly puzzling too. Why the heck is he handballing it more than he's kicking? I reckon he only had one kick from the kick ins where he let lose and it led to a shot on goal within 30 seconds after. It's a genuine weapon, but we seemed to be obsessed with handballs and short kicks through the back half. It's safe play, but that's not what made us a good team.

The kick-in strategy was a shamozzle

 

[There's other teams?]

Just calm down throughout the history of footy teams play like champs one week then chumps the next. Im sure that Adelaide will play much better next week. The list is good and the results will come.

 

[jackster83]

Hard to believe we had more contested possessions, clearances (including centre clearances) and inside 50's.

I guess that shows how poor we were with the ball. We also got smashed in the tackle count 74-57.

 

[Bicks]

He's likely just following faulty coaching instructions

No, Smith has always been suspect to heavy pressure and the Hawks brought that on steroids yesterday.....he just plain panicked too often.

 

[Pea Nut]

The lack of long kicking from Smith was truly puzzling too. Why the heck is he handballing it more than he's kicking? I reckon he only had one kick from the kick ins where he let lose and it led to a shot on goal within 30 seconds after. It's a genuine weapon, but we seemed to be obsessed with handballs and short kicks through the back half. It's safe play, but that's not what made us a good team.

Because of Hawthorns structure in front of him. He needed some mates to go with him that were prepared to run and carry. Sadly he didn't have any.

 

[Elite Crow]

Hard to make tackles when the defenders are marking or kicks inside 50 then booting it down field i guess

7?

 

[Murray2503]

Woke up today depressed about the sad state of affairs down at west lakes. How could a club pick a player that is more cooked than a Xmas turkey as co-captain(not Sloane by the way). How? Can't this ****ing club make a hard decision? And he is most likely our highest paid player by the way. Where did it all go wrong? This is the lowest the club has sunk and I have seen it all through Rober Shaw to Gary ****ing Ayres. Was disgusted by that effort yesterday. Can't financially support them anymore. I know they don't give a **** about my measley couple of hundred bucks but I won't be complicit. Feel like throwing membership in the trash.

### Sidenote: The Robert Shaw, Gary Ayres part probably was an overreaction. They really were the worst. But Chapman, Riccuito, Burton, Hart, Campo all need to go asap. Also the club is going nowhere under Don. Nice guy but no coach.

 

[Elite Crow]

Sorry mate you said JJ is immobile that is patently incorrect, JJ IS NOT immobile. He has his faults but IMMOBILE he is not.

He just chooses to play immobile then

 

[relapse]

The lack of long kicking from Smith was truly puzzling too. Why the heck is he handballing it more than he's kicking? I reckon he only had one kick from the kick ins where he let lose and it led to a shot on goal within 30 seconds after. It's a genuine weapon, but we seemed to be obsessed with handballs and short kicks through the back half. It's safe play, but that's not what made us a good team.

I don't think overusing the ball was the plan going into the game, but it was forced upon us tactically. Hawthorn always had spares sitting about 30 metres off the ball so we were forced into trying to chip the ball through to get some movement rather than going long with our kicks.

Yesterday was a coaching masterclass yesterday from Clarkson, had the game had been at the MCG we would have smashed by 60-70 points.

 

[CrowBloke]

The Hawks have bullied and thumped virtually every opponent in recent times. Underestimate them at your peril.

View attachment 640698

Geez, I wish we had numbers like that.
Only 4 sides have "troubled" them and that with close-to-break-even records.

 

[Truck25]

WOW lots of melts on here.

We played bad, and that is probably being kind.
Clarkson is such a good coach, his structure was intimidating. And he's already figured out how to counter 666.
He ran the wings straight into defensive positions and got the HFF to run up to the wings. This guaranteed numbers behind the ball and we didn't adjust.
They ran their zone tighter cutting out the space for the 30 meter kick and we didn't use the width this allows.
Ans simply put they ran harder defensively some time giving up the contest at the ball in the forward 1/2 to ensure they had numbers behind the ball.
That's why it was a 12 goal to 7 game.

They played and won ugly, something we just don't do. In fact all the games I have watched this week the winner has played ugly, the games are ugly.
I can't quite put my finger on it but something in the changes have dragged the game down and I have a suspicion it's the runners. the players aren't sure what the plan is so they just fall back to pressure and grind.

 

[CrowBloke]

Keath doesn't look anymore than a 3rd kpd at beat. He was severely found out with 1 on 1s

Hell, you're brave.
I got trampled for saying Keath had an ineffective game.

 

[Cap]

Kane had a segment on how Clarkson set up in defence. Basically our players had no where to kick to, they were trying to kick to the right spots but Clarkson had his defenders plugging the holes but we still kept kicking to the same spots.

And because our forwards are poor markers and one on one, we were smashed in there. None of our forwards smash the packs or can take a mark. We need to change the mix.

Can you provide us some examples of this poor one on one ability?

That is fundamentally Walker and Jenkins key strength and exactly why teams work hard to stop it.

I don't know if you watched the game yesterday, but the ball rarely (if ever) was delivered to our talls on an one on one situation.

Kane is right however, our mids did keep kicking to the same spots, those spots always jad multiple Hawks players.

 

[Elite Crow]

I think I’ve worked out our problem.

All preseason we train, have match simulations and internal trials against ourselves. The problem is our players aren’t a strong tackling team, they don’t apply the heat so when an opposition brings it they crumble and can’t handle it.

We need to change the mindset of our players so they learn to bring the heat.