Bluemour Discussion Thread XVI - Facts Not Welcome

[Accidental genius]

We sacked Parkin and brought him back. Sure he won flags during each stint and left of his own accord the second time, but the list was getting old and he may have been sacked a second time by Elliot if he stayed.

Also took Jesaulenko back a second time but he left the first time.

Sticks/Swann/McKay and impatient powerbrokers vs MLG/Liddle/Lloyd and a newfound patience and embracing of modern rebuilds.

i think ratten would need some convincing...cant see him jumping at the opportunity but if the manamgement can make a good pitch you never know what can happen..

 

[I bleed Blue]

How credible is BRETT TEMPLE from the Carlton footy group on Facebook?

He steals rumours off here from Barass etc then tries to pass them off as his own on FB.

Also makes up complete shit.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Just because we are "rebuilding" - which is a shithouse way of doing things but thats another story - doesn't mean we have to accept pathetic results coupled with zero accountability for said pathetic results. Being younger doesn't stop you from being desperate, tackling, smothering etc.

Not actually relevant to my point about hiring Ratten a second time.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

We sacked Parkin and brought him back. Sure he won flags during each stint and left of his own accord the second time, but the list was getting old and he may have been sacked a second time by Elliot if he stayed.

Also took Jesaulenko back a second time but he left the first time.

Sticks/Swann/McKay and impatient powerbrokers vs MLG/Liddle/Lloyd and a newfound patience and embracing of modern rebuilds.

There’s nothing modern about this rebuild. It’s the most simplistic kind.
Two extremely important things we need from our board are patience and proactiveness. You can make a case either way. I’m a huge Bolton fan so I want patience but that could also be the completely wrong path

 

[Gethelred]

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

There’s nothing modern about this rebuild. It’s the most simplistic kind.
Two extremely important things we need from our board are patience and proactiveness. You can make a case either way. I’m a huge Bolton fan so I want patience but that could also be the completely wrong path

The modern part is to have more patience than before and to embrace free agency and supplemental drafts. As a club, we can now recognise we aren't entitled to success and it takes a whole of club culture to give us a good shot at it.

Carlton have never done this before now remember.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

The modern part is to have more patience than before and to embrace free agency and supplemental drafts. As a club, we can now recognise we aren't entitled to success and it takes a whole of club culture to give us a good shot at it.

Carlton have never done this before now remember.

I guess I just don’t understand what you mean by having more patience. We hit the draft as hard as we possibly could in that 2002-07 period as well and didn’t really take any shortcuts in terms of trading out high picks for immediate success. Judd was the first big move we made and that was after we had already built the nucleus of a good side.

 

[Doro]

I guess I just don’t understand what you mean by having more patience. We hit the draft as hard as we possibly could in that 2002-07 period as well and didn’t really take any shortcuts in terms of trading out high picks for immediate success. Judd was the first big move we made and that was after we had already built the nucleus of a good side.

Pagan went recycled rather than draft based following the draft penalties. Too many misses at the top end post the Judd arrival, that's why it was only ever a 'good' side at its peak.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Pagan went recycled rather than draft based following the draft penalties. Too many misses at the top end post the Judd arrival, that's why it was only ever a 'good' side at its peak.

We didn’t trade any high picks though. We hit the draft.
We failed because of poor recruiting not because we weren’t patient. We probably got our list to a similar position as we are now in and than stuffed everything up

 

[Doro]

We didn’t trade any high picks though. We hit the draft.
We failed because of poor recruiting not because we weren’t patient. We probably got our list to a similar position as we are now in and than stuffed everything up

Yeah not sure there was enough review across the club as to how we were traveling. Hire a coach and wait for the premierships was about as deep as the thinking went. I think you need to wear thin on patience and expect improvement after sufficient time imo, the competition isn't waiting patiently for us.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I guess I just don’t understand what you mean by having more patience. We hit the draft as hard as we possibly could in that 2002-07 period as well and didn’t really take any shortcuts in terms of trading out high picks for immediate success. Judd was the first big move we made and that was after we had already built the nucleus of a good side.

Not in 2002. We lost our picks for salary cap breaches, traded in Barnaby French and picked up Mick Martyn. No rebuilding through the draft in sight there.

2003, we lost our first pick, traded in mature aged players Clarke, Harford, Johnson, McGrath, Morrell, Scotland and Teague. Then Mott, Bowyer and Bannister in the draft. This year was merely patching holes.

2004, traded for Chambers and Longmuir. Did go to the draft but we definitely still adding 'deadwood', so to speak. You also need to look at these years to see how much games the youngsters were getting. Not a lot.

2005, traded for Saddington and grabbed McLaren in the PSD. Went to the draft other than that though.

2006, we hit the draft this year but added more recycled players in Cloke and Ackland.

2007, traded for Judd, Hadley, added Pfeiffer in the PSD.

Note that we never traded decent players out in order to get higher in the draft. Pagan kept topping up at every opportunity.

 

[CFC18]

Deluca mail was correct...

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Thats the kiss of death.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Not in 2002. We lost our picks for salary cap breaches, traded in Barnaby French and picked up Mick Martyn. No rebuilding through the draft in sight there.

2003, we lost our first pick, traded in mature aged players Clarke, Harford, Johnson, McGrath, Morrell, Scotland and Teague. Then Mott, Bowyer and Bannister in the draft. This year was merely patching holes.

2004, traded for Chambers and Longmuir. Did go to the draft but we definitely still adding 'deadwood', so to speak. You also need to look at these years to see how much games the youngsters were getting. Not a lot.

2005, traded for Saddington and grabbed McLaren in the PSD. Went to the draft other than that though.

2006, we hit the draft this year but added more recycled players in Cloke and Ackland.

2007, traded for Judd, Hadley, added Pfeiffer in the PSD.

Note that we never traded decent players out in order to get higher in the draft. Pagan kept topping up at every opportunity.

We have a very similar list of recycled players we have brought in in this rebuild. We certainly didn’t trade as many players out but we also didn’t have players asking to be traded like we have during this rebuild

 

[The Flying Doormat]

Deluca mail was correct...

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-05-26/blues-set-take-former-dockers-midfielder-deluca-with-no1-pick

 

[Wickzki]

Deluca mail was correct...

Another player found not to be of AFL standard.

Could have drafted in a kid who hasn't had an opportunity yet.

 

[Styxx]

Another player found not to be of AFL standard.

Could have drafted in a kid who hasn't had an opportunity yet.

And if he didn't work out same result

"Carlton shoukd have picked x instead."

It's a perpetual lose lose only at Ikon park

 

[Benaly28]

Thank God we haven’t gone for another ‘kid’ we have too many.

 

[Gavstar]

Another player found not to be of AFL standard.

Could have drafted in a kid who hasn't had an opportunity yet.

Who has hamstring issues, oh god

 

[Wickzki]

Who has hamstring issues, oh god

With Russell the injury history doesn't bother me as it would have any other year. The talent level does.

Hope he proves me wrong.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

And if he didn't work out same result

"Carlton shoukd have picked x instead."

It's a perpetual lose lose only at Ikon park

Yup, odds are that of 20 mid year draftees, only a couple are going to make it in any meaningful way. We are on a hiding to nothing from hindsight judgments.

 

[AB_Blue]

Why not select Sam fisher

He’s right under our nose!


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[Lace_Out]

He is too slow, we have enough players that lack speed. It's a shame really, like his footy IQ and hardness.

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[rampar]

He is too slow, we have enough players that lack speed. It's a shame really, like his footy IQ and hardness.

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Exactly what they said about mitchell

 

[Lace_Out]

Not everyone turns into a Mitchell. Need to hedge our bets carefully.

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