Bluemour Discussion Thread XVI - Facts Not Welcome

[cookie monster]

What ? You mean the game plan of Scotland holding the ball in the air and chipping it around until the opposition score a goal isn’t working ????


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Wasn't that ridiculous stuff?!
Absolutely cringeworthy

 

[Blue__Balls]

I would prefer the club don't take the chance with Ratten based on last time. It's guesswork who the better assistant coach is until they get given their own team. If the club choose Ratten then fair enough, I'll back him in.

It's guesswork for me and you, sure, but it's educated guesswork for the club, right? They get to speak at length with all candidates to assess their attitude, knowledge, plans, strengths, weaknesses, requirements etc.

Appreciate that you see the history with Ratten as a door once closed that we don't need to open again. I suppose I'm just trying to plant a little seed in your head that should Ratten be a better coaching candidate, then it's in the club's best interests to hire him and put a structure in place around him that allows him to focus solely on his job alone.

Was firmly Team Ratts early on, but I'm coming around to Teague. Certainly prefer both blokes to the Scott, Lyon, Voss options, and hold some reservations about a possible Clarkson coup. Feel like a fresh but well-prepared coach is what the team needs now, someone with no preconceived ideas about what a football team should do, but an open mind as to what our football team does best.

 

[thylacine60]

Windows 95 went ok.......

can't wait for the upgrade......

 

[jackn]

We have too much ruck depth atm. Playing all 3 of Phillips, Lobbe and TDK in the VFL is not helping TDK.
Trade/de-list 1 or both of Phillips and Lobbe, trade in Cameron and only play Cameron and TDK in the ruck and resting as forwards in the VFL.
Phillips and Lobbe haven't really worked out for us for various reasons.

I don't think they're ruck depth any more though. Ruck dead weight a more appropriate description. Really hope we can pick up an early-mid 20s ruckman as backup to kreuze this off season. Then a rookie this year or next to develop with tdk.

 

[F_therest]

Well if they can get those players into the club Mitchell back and start regenerating the young stocks through their early draft selections again they shouldn't bottom out as much as everyone thinks...

Not to mention having Clarko as coach

 

[F_therest]

Freo played Sandilands, Lobb AND Darcy in the one team on the weekend.....

Maybe Ross is being recruited to coach the Northern Blues!

Just had horror flashbacks of Kreuzer, Hampson & Warnock in the one team. Thanks.

 

[El Topo]

What was different about Ratten compared to Malthouse, is that Ratten looked at the players he had at his disposal and crafted a game plan to maximize their strengths. The only problem was if an opposition had a superior method or our key players were having a bad day, we often got found out. It also generally made life difficult in the event of injuries. What I did like about Ratten was that when he took over we became noticeably better in the clinches, with quick hands becoming a feature of our play in sharp contrast to Pagan’s “throw it on the boot and hack it forward”.

Malthouse decided that he had a game plan that would withstand almost any opposition approach and viewed players merely as pawns designed to carry out the game plan. This approach was theoretically more resilient to injuries to players or form lapses, “If one player is out then the next man in the queue steps up.” Unfortunately this approach was just flat out misguided and inappropriate for the list we had. They were incapable of executing the plan. I also think it deflated the playing group and stopped them from experiencing the sort of joy that comes with bringing your unique gifts and talents to the table.

I tend to see a large amount of Malthouse in the way that Bolton was coaching by the end and a lot more Ratten in the way that Teague has gone about it. It’s pretty clear that now we’ve put together a talented group who are becoming mature, it makes sense to give them a bit of freedom to express themselves as Teague has done. I think this is right approach and I’d be happy to see Teague continue next year.


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This speaks to the importance of separating coaching from list management - which went a long way to dooming both Ratten and Malthouse.

 

[Doro]

It's guesswork for me and you, sure, but it's educated guesswork for the club, right? They get to speak at length with all candidates to assess their attitude, knowledge, plans, strengths, weaknesses, requirements etc.

Appreciate that you see the history with Ratten as a door once closed that we don't need to open again. I suppose I'm just trying to plant a little seed in your head that should Ratten be a better coaching candidate, then it's in the club's best interests to hire him and put a structure in place around him that allows him to focus solely on his job alone.

Was firmly Team Ratts early on, but I'm coming around to Teague. Certainly prefer both blokes to the Scott, Lyon, Voss options, and hold some reservations about a possible Clarkson coup. Feel like a fresh but well-prepared coach is what the team needs now, someone with no preconceived ideas about what a football team should do, but an open mind as to what our football team does best.

I'm not sure why you need to plant a seed in my head, it ain't up to me. Like it or not senior AFL coaches are granted a certain power of influence, so confidence in decision making is also important.

 

[Prem17]

Agree the NB's side is way too top heavy, but it's the types of ruckman they are which are really restraining us over the ground Phillips and Lobbe if possible both need to be replaced at the end of the season, ideally I'd like a 21yrs-24yrs ruckman then maybe another young project ruckman who can be given time through NB's feeder club...

Cameron is 24 atm I think and looking for more opportunity.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I'm not sure why you need to plant a seed in my head, it ain't up to me. Like it or not senior AFL coaches are granted a certain power of influence, so confidence in decision making is also important.

Cause we're conversing I'm not on the line to the club either.

I'm just seeing that you've got your mind set on Ratten not being the right option for us, and I'm trying to challenge that thinking a bit. Not because I think you're point is invalid, but because I think (hope) the club had progressed to the point where your reasonable concerns shouldn't be something we actually need to worry about. It's been a long time since Ratten made those poor decisions, both he and the club have come a long way since.

 

[Styxx]

fu**nuckle cant even spell the names of the players he's sooking about.

****nuckle can't even be bothered to check that we have most if not all of our stars under contract for a few more years.

Trashing Fraser Brown is hard for me as he actually wrote me a fan mail letter back in 1995 when i was 7

 

[BlueView]

Cameron is 24 atm I think and looking for more opportunity.

It’s going to be competitive for Ruckman this year Essendon will be looking for someone to help Bellchambers, Stanley’s a weakness at Geelong the Dogs will want one to help English...the Saints are on record as wanting another to help Marshall, North will be in the market with Goldstein as will likely be GWS and us

 

[Styxx]

If we are still after hill, may have to take bennell too!

I saw something in the HS today stating hill wants bennell to come with him.

Russell's greatest challenge....

 

[HARKER]

This speaks to the importance of separating coaching from list management - which went a long way to dooming both Ratten and Malthouse.

Coaching and List Management should be more aligned, but they can't be when there isn't someone in place to oversee the processes.
We should have a Football Manager that puts a plan in place for how we are to play and what types we need to achieve best results.
This is not the way it's currently being administered in our competition and it just doesn't seem right.

 

[BlueVision]

Coaching and List Management should be more aligned, but they can't be when there isn't someone in place to oversee the processes.
We should have a Football Manager that puts a plan in place for how we are to play and what types we need to achieve best results.
This is not the way it's currently being administered in our competition and it just doesn't seem right.

Shouldn't the coach be putting in place a plan on how we play & conveying to the List Manager what types of players he requires to execute his game plan.

Not sure adding another layer of management (football manager) would be the answer.

 

[Doro]

Cause we're conversing I'm not on the line to the club either.

I'm just seeing that you've got your mind set on Ratten not being the right option for us, and I'm trying to challenge that thinking a bit. Not because I think you're point is invalid, but because I think (hope) the club had progressed to the point where your reasonable concerns shouldn't be something we actually need to worry about. It's been a long time since Ratten made those poor decisions, both he and the club have come a long way since.

We all pick a horse we want and a horse we don't. Decision making is not necessarily something that improves with experience.

 

[HARKER]

Shouldn't the coach be putting in place a plan on how we play & conveying to the List Manager what types of players he requires to execute his game plan.

Not sure adding another layer of management (football manager) would be the answer.

Thought about it enough to feel strong for it to be the answer.
One individual that sets the plans in place and has the ability to link all the moving parts.

The coach and list manager can easily have different agendas, causing unnecessary friction.
I just see a day where they'll simply be doing the job a Manager tells them to do.
Maybe we just don't have that sort of expertise in this competition yet, but I feel it has to come.
Said it before but the principle coach and game day coach dont have to be one of the same either.

 

[Matty411]

FWIW - a Bluebagger on a loyal Bluebaggers group on FB stating first-hand that Eddie would be keen to finish his career with us and Coach under Teague (or Ratts). Not sure of the accuracy of it, but worth mentioning.

Paps in one pocket and Eddie on the other for one year before transitioning the great man to another role at the club?

Delicious.

 

[Opine]

Coaching and List Management should be more aligned, but they can't be when there isn't someone in place to oversee the processes.
We should have a Football Manager that puts a plan in place for how we are to play and what types we need to achieve best results.
This is not the way it's currently being administered in our competition and it just doesn't seem right.

Not sure that I agree. It seems that the model your suggesting is no different to a coach having the majority influence on the types and length of terms of those on the list. Perhaps another difference is that the coach then goes on and assumes the major role on game day. But even you remove game day responsibility, your still left with the risk of a David Parkin, and or Brad Scot, maxing out age, and long term prospects, for the sake of now. I think the current decentralised model is better; list and coaching heads remain responsible for achieving their respective objectives, and role of footy manager as we know it facilitates appropriate balance between both objectives.

 

[Stamos]

We should have a Football Manager that puts a plan in place for how we are to play and what types we need to achieve best results.
This is not the way it's currently being administered in our competition and it just doesn't seem right.

I don't agree.
The coach devises the game plan. The List Manager puts together the list. They are both answerable to their boss, The Football Manager/Head of Football.
It should be collaborative, and the Head of Football should manage it, rather than dictate.

 

[HARKER]

It makes too much sense to me.

Baby steps I guess and we're likely to have this Director of a Coaching first before we further develop into a model I'm putting forward.

Would Bolton have benefited appointing Teague as game day tactician? I guess the answer would be a yes.
Why does the main coach who deals with personalities day in and out also be the individual who's most adept in being creative and proactive on game day?
I don't see it being a slight at all upon the principle coach to not be in the main chair making the tactical manouvers. Not in the slightest.

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

It makes too much sense to me.

Baby steps I guess and we're likely to have this Director of a Coaching first before we further develop into a model I'm putting forward.

Would Bolton have benefited appointing Teague as game day tactician? I guess the answer would be a yes.
Why does the main coach who deals with personalities day in and out also be the individual who's most adept in being creative and proactive on game day?
I don't see it being a slight at all upon the principle coach to not be in the main chair making the tactical manouvers. Not in the slightest.

I was speaking with a GM of a club recently and they were talking about their ideal coaches box make up. In their opinion the Head Coach should be responsible for building relationships and fostering the team culture, with tacticians appointed to specialise in game day and across the different lines.

 

[HARKER]

I was speaking with a GM of a club recently and they were talking about their ideal coaches box make up. In their opinion the Head Coach should be responsible for building relationships and fostering the team culture, with tacticians appointed to specialise in game day and across the different lines.

Of course but it needs an overseer of the whole.
Someone that maps out the game we want to play and the types that are required to fulfil the vision.
Currently we have a situation where we can have two visions.... The coaches and the List Managers.
It doesn't make sense.

I like your post

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

Of course but it needs an overseer of the whole.
Someone that maps out the game we want to play and the types that are required to fulfil the vision.
Currently we have a situation where we can have two visions.... The coaches and the List Managers.
It doesn't make sense.

I like your post

Yes--one person needs to be responsible for managing the vision of the club as a whole--the game plan requires this type of player to be recruited etc etc

 

[JustaBattler]

What does a list manager have to do with coaching on game day or even preparing teams for games? Every professional sport in the world separates talent scouting/recruiting/portfolio management from coaching and playing. Different functions.