Bluemour Melting Pot XXI - Like seriously, the polar ice caps have got nothing on us

[FRUMPY]

It's not free agency.

They have to pay 900k in year 1 if that's what's on the nomination. End of story.

Nope they have to match the overall wage for the contract - can structure it any way they want to.

 

[Magruder]

He prices himself out of the market. Simple.

Melb have brought in several highly paid players the last 2 years. They have many players out of contract next year.

They aren't going to throw 800k and risk
1. He doesn't play and they still have to pay him; or
2. He demands out after 12 months

How will those contract negotiations go for them? They'll throw 800k at someone who doesn't want to be there, and will only offer 500k to a servant of their club? Exodus. Brayshaw, Viney, Jones and others will all seek out.

I think Melbourne will just take the easy and safe option and steer clear of a potential media dumpster fire.

Agreed

I don't believe the $ or contract length necessarily enter into it... you cannot simply meet some notional stated terms. My thoughts for an un-contracted player that enters the PSD is that the selection merely gives you the right to offer a contract - they still have to accept it. Anything else is possibly restraint of trade - including forcing them to sit out the year or play NEAFL or whatever.

You could argue that the player's employer is ultimately the AFL but i don't think that's an arrangement that the league want tested.

The practicalities are effectively that the club will seek agreement from the player and sort terms before the draft, as you have indicated, no-one wants the alternative can of worms opened.

We get Martin - either DFA or through the PSD.

 

[Stamos]

I have zero confidence in expecting the Suns to 'do the right thing'.

Delisting him now would make Cochrane look like an absolute imbecile. Well, even more so than he has managed to do himself.

Agree 100%
But maybe the AFL come in over the top?
I still can't believe given all they're doing to make it work on the Gold Coast, that they let him be in charge.

 

[Coops93]

Pass on the pick swap so the AFL can't do us for 'draft tampering'. GCS had their chance and blew it.

How exactly is it draft tampering?

 

[zeggie]

Nope they have to match the overall wage for the contract - can structure it any way they want to.

Do I need to break out the Rule book for you?

Or are you confusing salary with TPP?

 

[Magruder]

It's not free agency.

They have to pay 900k in year 1 if that's what's on the nomination. End of story.

no he has to agree to go there...

 

[TommyMcG]

No, I meant that as 'The AFL are against Carlton' tin foil hat.
Not that dodgy things happen within the AFL

The way I see it is the AFL are trying to slow the reascension of Carlton to “Big 4” status. It’s too late to hold back the Pies and Tiges, and Essendon seem to be happy to be middle of the road.
Imagine the cries from interstate clubs if the top 4 was the big 4 year in year out.

Plus we were absolute campaigners in the past and people have long memories.

 

[Faz 2000]

I think if Martin really has his heart set on Carlton, he will get there in the PSD. Sure, GC and Melbourne have picks before us, but this industry is not *that* big. You don't want to go around being complete assholes because that does not help you do business.

If - and it's an important "if" - Martin GENUINELY really really wants Carlton, puts a big price on his head.... GC and Melbourne are most likely not going to take him "against his will". Sure, they have the right to, but it's a dick move to a massive extent. It would have wider-reaching and longer-term repercussions than one might initially think. Sends a terrible message to other players at the club ("you're ours whether you like it or not"). May well screw their salary cap and impact other player contracts. Disrupts any team messages or values the coaching staff have in place by introducing a disgruntled player. And who in the future is going to legitimately look at trading/dealing with the club after a shit-show like that?

From GC's point of view, they'll never, ever get another good game of footy from him AND will be paying him $2M over two years, just because they can.

From Melbourne's point of view, they absolutely should ask "hey, Jack, are you really sure it's only Carlton? What about us?" - if he still says it's just Carlton, gotta be Carlton, why would they want the hassle, distraction, the expense and the drama of drafting a guy who doesn't want to be there?

Comes back to that big if. If Martin wants to play IN Melbourne, the Dees are a legit option. If he's more excited about a big contract, maybe GC is still a viable option. It does seem he's pretty keen on Carlton, and therefore I think it is plausible that it can happen and we end up with a good outcome.

 

[FRUMPY]

Do I need to break out the Rule book for you?

Or are you confusing salary with TPP?

you can break out any rule book you like, doesn't bother me if im proven wrong

 

[zeggie]

How exactly is it draft tampering?

A pick swap in GCS favour to withdraw their contract/delist Martin would be draft tampering. Melbourne would miss their potential opportunity to draft him.

 

[FRUMPY]

The way I see it is the AFL are trying to slow the reascension of Carlton to “Big 4” status. It’s too late to hold back the Pies and Tiges, and Essendon seem to be happy to be middle of the road.
Imagine the cries from interstate clubs if the top 4 was the big 4 year in year out.

Plus we were absolute campaigners in the past and people have long memories.

Massive tin foil hat

 

[TommyMcG]

Massive tin foil hat

Not really. Just politics.

 

[Coops93]

A pick swap in GCS favour to withdraw their contract/delist Martin would be draft tampering. Melbourne would miss their potential opportunity to draft him.

Jack hasn't nominated for any draft, though, and if this plan goes into place he never will. So Jack was never part of any draft.

 

[Stamos]

Comes back to that big if. If Martin wants to play IN Melbourne, the Dees are a legit option. If he's more excited about a big contract, maybe GC is still a viable option. It does seem he's pretty keen on Carlton, and therefore I think it is likely to happen.

His manager already told the Dees, and made in public on radio that he did, "Carlton only"

 

[blue healer]

I've only scanned this thread since Wednesday night, it's moved quicker than our even our most prolific autopsy thread and, at the very least, has matched it for melts.

I think, if I'd posted immediately, I would probably have been in the melt list as I was very disappointed, but with time to think and in the light of some of the info that has come to light I now have reverted to my "glass half full" stance. Not quite as bullish as I would have been had we traded Papley in but, in hindsight, I think that was more a possibility than a probability and the arrival of Eddie (I've always been a huge fan) offsets that disappointment a little.

I've never been a huge fan of Cuningham (25 games in 4 years makes me a tad sceptical of his long term worth) but if he can get a full season in and is half as good as many here think I am hopeful that between he and Gibbons we can counter the miss of Papley, particularly with Eddie there.

To not get Martin in the trade was a bit discouraging but it now seems that we are a huge chance to get him for nothing. But I can't see where all this "put a price on him of up to $2mill over 2 years" is coming from. I don't like the message that sends to the other players on our list, we should not have to pay overs. It seems common knowledge that we were royally screwed by GCS and the rationale for this deserves an enquiry by the AFL but we all know that's not going to happen. I believe that there is some honour among clubs who are well aware of our fight here and I don't expect any to gazump us.

Still a bit surprised that we had no plan to fall back on particularly after all the hints we were getting from ITK's about a mystery player but there doesn't (at least from the outside) seem that there was a lot of gettable options to replace Papley.

I'm still really disappointed that we de-listed Daisy, can never understand why we went so early on that and I'd love to see him rookied but that's a pipe dream as I reckon that is just too much humble pie for us to eat. Seems we may still be a little short in senior players who really were the main catalyst for our second half of the season.

Just my two bobs worth.

 

[SammaGilberto]

Massive tin foil hat

 

[Wily trout]

I'm heartened by the confidence here that we will get Martin for free. I'm heartened to hear his manager say that he still wants to come to Carlton and has declined Melbourne. However, despite this, I'm still very uncomfortable with this whole situation. This appears to be a really important acquisition for the club on field, and the potential to get this for free is really exciting. But I just have a feeling there is more to play out here with Melbourne. I have a gut feeling they will make a move here, whether that is reorganizing salary cap space or using May and Jetta to convince him to come to Melbourne.

Perhaps I'm being irrationally anxious but until Martin is in a navy blue jumper I will be a bit on edge.

I think Eddie and Cripps trumps May and Jetta

 

[Stamos]

Jack hasn't nominated for any draft, though, and if this plan goes into place he never will. So Jack was never part of any draft.

Hence the 'Draft Tampering'

 

[zeggie]

you can break out any rule book you like, doesn't bother me if im proven wrong

Well you are wrong. Rule 6.3.

This isn't a RFA matching or TPP buffer situation.

It's a draft nomination. The club must pay in identical terms to what the player has nominated.

 

[slowhand clape]

I see that as a good thing. Classic good cop bad cop by GC. I’d bet it means they want to discuss a pick swap still. Can’t have that chat if we are too pissed off.

“Best you ring SOs and apologise”

Cochrane is using a proven management tactic. Make the other guy think you’re crazy enough to do anything

 

[Coops93]

Hence the 'Draft Tampering'

I'd have thought you'd need to be in a draft for it to be draft tampering.

 

[Stamos]

But I can't see where all this "put a price on him of up to $2mill over 2 years" is coming from. I don't like the message that sends to the other players on our list, we should not have to pay overs.

That would be the front-ended part of the contract to ensure that we get him, not the total contract. Martin won't be overpaid, it's just he'll get more money in the first year or two, and less in the 3rd and 4th.

 

[FRUMPY]

Well you are wrong. Rule 6.3.

This isn't a RFA matching or TPP buffer situation.

It's a draft nomination. The club must pay in identical terms to what the player has nominated.

Ill take your word for it, it doesn't matter anyway, they wont draft him

 

[TwiggleyFanClub]

Tin Foil Hat Time.

GCS and CFC planned this together.
GCS play hard ball in trade week and we hold firm.
We do the deal mentioned to get him delisted, at a lower cost than a trade would have.
We get him as a DFA. No risk, no fuss.

Carlton get their guy for unders. Insiders come out and says SOS is still the man (thorough, firm but reasonable, etc) so no hit to the reputation.
GCS look tough as a warning for St Kilda and Crows for when they come for Luko, Rankine, King, etc, and still get something for Martin.

 

[Stamos]

I'd have thought you'd need to be in a draft for it to be draft tampering.

In this case it would be tampering with the draft by artificially altering the draft pool