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Opinion Stephen Silvagni

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Heat has been on Silvagni for some time now and Beatson in our sights for a while.
I feel that's it's the structures we put in place more so than for his productivity, or lack of it, that should be scrutinised.

Silvagni is his own person though and not the easiest individual to get along with, although it's hard to say why the collective could not get along.
This person will say this...and that person will say that...you know how it goes...it's always the other persons fault.

Always said that Silvagni could broker the deals but wasn't the best recruiter.
Why that role either fell into his lap, or was demanded by him was unnecessary and I can understand the friction between Liddle and Silvagni, which then invariably dragged MLG into he picture. Messy
 

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If SOS believes the job is done (and I think he does) he would be happy to go home, kiss Jo (several times) don the dressing gown, pour himself a glass of really expensive scotch and revel in the future success of this great club.

If SOS doesn't believe the job is done and he is sick of the interference and finger pointing he will go home, kick the dog and sulk in the shed for a week. Once calm, see above.
 
Wonder if that means brodie is gone too?? Might be why we've heard about david walls coming? Also wasn't mick Ablett sounded out?
 

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Regardless of what happens re SOS and his immediate future, his success will be gauged by the success of the list he has put together after this trade/draft period - 5 years of trading/drafting.
If the 1-5 year players progress as hoped, he will be a 9/10 (-1 for O'Shea, Mullett etc).
 
Even if SOS goes on his own terms, the media and fantasy land will spin it that he was pushed out. Not the ideal pre-season murmurings we want to hear heading into a season full of expectation.
 
Pretty poor look for the club if we lose SOS due to him and Liddle not seeing eye to eye if rumours are true. We are not strong enough yet to to have a toxic administration as a distraction for the players. Off field harmony provides on field stability which provides off field stability. It's fair to have different opinions but the final decision after discussion should fall to the person who is in charge of that department as it is they, who will eventually have to fall on their sword if the wrong decision is made.
 
Worst part about SOS leaving, if it eventuates, will be all the dummy spitting on this board.

Seriously. Pull yourselves together.

The work he's done isn't work that needs to keep happening. We don't need someone to pull 5-for-1 trades out their arse to turn over 90% of the list in a four year period now. We need someone to maintain strong relationships with players, managers, recruiters, opposition list managers, and to coordinate the organic growth of a young list. We need to plug a few specific gaps, and we need to make sure we only lose players we can afford to lose from here on out.

If SOS believes that the work he's best suited to is now behind us, and the work needing to be done moving forward is best handled by someone with a different skill set, that's a good thing. If SOS believes the club is now on track for success and he wants to be able to get a little bit of distance from it so he can watch his boys enjoy that success, that's a good thing. If the executive board have implemented checks and balances to ensure best practice, and SOS is chafing so much at being accountable that he feels the need to leave, that's still a good thing. Change is good - it's evolution, improvement, development.

Baffles me that people will say SOS leaving is a return to the "bad old days", when it's quite literally the opposite - not trusting in a name, a member of the boys club, just because, but recognising when they've done their job and someone else now needs to do theirs.
 

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HARKER said:
Heat has been on Silvagni for some time now and Beatson in our sights for a while.
I feel that's it's the structures we put in place more so than for his productivity, or lack of it, that should be scrutinised.

Silvagni is his own person though and not the easiest individual to get along with, although it's hard to say why the collective could not get along.
This person will say this...and that person will say that...you know how it goes...it's always the other persons fault.

Always said that Silvagni could broker the deals but wasn't the best recruiter.
Why that role either fell into his lap, or was demanded by him was unnecessary and I can understand the friction between Liddle and Silvagni, which then invariably dragged MLG into he picture. Messy
Click to expand...
From the outside there seems to be 2 reasons for the friction:
Poor performance at the mid point of the season where SOS had to explain the list build to Liddle and MLG. Second half of the season showed the potential of the list build with the right levers being pulled. Management were shown to be impatient and blame being laid at the wrong feet.

Liddle getting out of his lane trying to get involved and being invested in recruiting RFC players. He needs to stick to his role.

While I am critical of some of the late picks SOS has made, generally it has been good work.
 
RAPPA said:
Even if SOS goes on his own terms, the media and fantasy land will spin it that he was pushed out. Not the ideal pre-season murmurings we want to hear heading into a season full of expectation.
Click to expand...

Easily avoided - statement/interview from SOS making it clear that the reset/rebuild he set out to implement is "done" and he's ready to hand the reins over to someone with a different skill set. He did the same at GWS, we just interpreted it as him "coming home". Maybe he's just eminently aware of what he's suited to do.
 
Sector 7G said:
From the outside there seems to be 2 reasons for the friction:
Poor performance at the mid point of the season where SOS had to explain the list build to Liddle and MLG. Second half of the season showed the potential of the list build with the right levers being pulled. Management were shown to be impatient and blame being laid at the wrong feet.

Liddle getting out of his lane trying to get involved and being invested in recruiting RFC players. He needs to stick to his role.

While I am critical of some of the late picks SOS has made, generally it has been good work.
Click to expand...

I worry when whether it be Liddle with Ellis or Teague with Betts, get involved.
I know it's not as simple as that but if role guidelines aren't in place, the board has not done a good job and 'old ways' have filtered back into the system.

Our recruiting via the later picks has been poor but is it poorer for lack of development, or has it just simply been poor?

We all get excited for the players we bring in but others are doing it much better by way of picks and systems.
2016: We took #59 Polson & #65 Kerr. Hawthorn took #74 Morrison & #76 Lewis
2017: We took #30 De Koning & #70 Schumacher. Hawthorn took #45 Worpel & # #67 Moore

If Polson had not been gifted a two year contract, he'd be off our list which would make it 3 gone in 3 years.
All of Hawthorns later selections have shown plenty.

If SOS does go, then he's mate Brodie has to go also.
Our later picks and rookie picks can't be ignored. I called them lazy two years ago and continue to call them that today.
 
Blue__Balls said:
Easily avoided - statement/interview from SOS making it clear that the reset/rebuild he set out to implement is "done" and he's ready to hand the reins over to someone with a different skill set. He did the same at GWS, we just interpreted it as him "coming home". Maybe he's just eminently aware of what he's suited to do.
Click to expand...

Agree, rip the band aid off, make a statement and move on, don't let this fester and allow rumour and innuendo to go through our tabloid outlets like a "New Idea" story.
 
Organisational stability is usually a good thing - because it also implies organisational continuity in learning and getting better constantly because of an inbuilt feedback loop. As soon as you make change(s) you lose continuity. You lose learning you lose a lot of things. There is this meme of poor performance with later picks on this board and GWS
rejects on BF ( which has a collective IQ of a goldfish fish tank on a good day).

So for all those who are quietly licking their lips in anticipation of change - beware what you are craving, you throw out the possibility of improving what could (after the fact) have been done better through learning - AND you definitely replace proven good - with experiments in new people.

The only 'fair' question that can be asked is the issue of SOS and his two sons at Carlton and what the implications may or may not be for transparency and fairness as far as their treatment goes relative to other players and potential players.

Liddle has runs on the board selling the future- a future which SOS and Bolton were the main architects of to this date.I never confuse 'sales' guys with engineers or their relative sustainable relevance. If SOS has been pushed by new boys Liddle and Lloyd - I wouldn't be getting too excited or cheery about likely outcomes for Carlton.

Seems to me that Bolton's failures opened the door on cockroach activity - mumbles and media 'leaks' increased at the half year mark. Teague and his training wheels was a happy accident at Carlton - some form of continuity in coaching was maintained since Teague was already there- imagine if the nuff nuff view that Juddd was channeling - witnessed some other noobie coach with no connection to players or Carlton appointed - to tick Liddle's marketing box.

I don't like these media speculations - they always have a source and I don't like sales guys getting involved in player selection and list management or unproven blow ins from Fremantle taking over a system they had nothing to do with building.

MLG has allowed this situation to evolve now into a growing momentum of nuff nuffery - what was a unified message coming put of the Club has now become less convincing and more formulaic marketing dribble.

My level of confidence in Carlton as an organisation is diminishing with the way this news is 'breaking'.
 

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Opinion Stephen Silvagni

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