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Opinion Stephen Silvagni

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So after 20 years of poor list management and recruiting we finally get it right, and then cause our new CEO (who has done an excellent job) wants to stick his fingers in and make a mark, undermines and gets involved in areas outside his skill set.

Bloody annoyed with this one. We are not strong enough to have back room politics not affect us.

Sos has done an amazing job in 4 years, blind Freddy can see that.

So he goes and what happens if the next one in is below par. Back to square one.

Hate this. Seriously hate this.
 
JustaBattler said:
MLG has allowed this situation to evolve now into a growing momentum of nuff nuffery - what was a unified message coming put of the Club has now become less convincing and more formulaic marketing dribble.

My level of confidence in Carlton as an organisation is diminishing with the way this news is 'breaking'.
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Good post and covers a lot of relevant ground.

I always get back to the head honcho who by design or default, seems to get his way with the 'friends' he brings into the club - Silvagni, Judd.
He also backed Bolton to the hilt but ultimately had to relent for the pressure that was abound at the time....but somehow that's OK.

This situation has been festering for a long time and if there is no way to resolve it, pull the band-aid, as others have said.
Let Silvagni walk, move on Brodie and any other links by way of friendships and start again. **** it!
 
smashbox gill said:
So after 20 years of poor list management and recruiting we finally get it right, and then cause our new CEO (who has done an excellent job) wants to stick his fingers in and make a mark, undermines and gets involved in areas outside his skill set.

Bloody annoyed with this one. We are not strong enough to have back room politics not affect us.

Sos has done an amazing job in 4 years, blind Freddy can see that.

So he goes and what happens if the next one in is below par. Back to square one.

Hate this. Seriously hate this.
Click to expand...

The report I read suggested issues with Liddle over Betts and Ellis and yet we didn't recruit Ellis and up to this point Teague has been mentioned as the driving force behind Betts (as well as the players according to reports from just yesterday). Even if these 2 issues were down to Liddle does it really sound logical that SOS will quit over "being forced"to take Betts for a meaningless pick and going through the process over Ellis?

If the recent trade period has shown anything it is that most of these rumours are BS and even if SOS does leave the reasons may be completely different.
 
JustaBattler said:
Organisational stability is usually a good thing - because it also implies organisational continuity in learning and getting better constantly because of an inbuilt feedback loop. As soon as you make change(s) you lose continuity. You lose learning you lose a lot of things. There is this meme of poor performance with later picks on this board and GWS
rejects on BF ( which has a collective IQ of a goldfish fish tank on a good day).

So for all those who are quietly licking their lips in anticipation of change - beware what you are craving, you throw out the possibility of improving what could (after the fact) have been done better through learning - AND you definitely replace proven good - with experiments in new people.

The only 'fair' question that can be asked is the issue of SOS and his two sons at Carlton and what the implications may or may not be for transparency and fairness as far as their treatment goes relative to other players and potential players.

Liddle has runs on the board selling the future- a future which SOS and Bolton were the main architects of to this date.I never confuse 'sales' guys with engineers or their relative sustainable relevance. If SOS has been pushed by new boys Liddle and Lloyd - I wouldn't be getting too excited or cheery about likely outcomes for Carlton.

Seems to me that Bolton's failures opened the door on cockroach activity - mumbles and media 'leaks' increased at the half year mark. Teague and his training wheels was a happy accident at Carlton - some form of continuity in coaching was maintained since Teague was already there- imagine if the nuff nuff view that Juddd was channeling - witnessed some other noobie coach with no connection to players or Carlton appointed - to tick Liddle's marketing box.

I don't like these media speculations - they always have a source and I don't like sales guys getting involved in player selection and list management or unproven blow ins from Fremantle taking over a system they had nothing to do with building.

MLG has allowed this situation to evolve now into a growing momentum of nuff nuffery - what was a unified message coming put of the Club has now become less convincing and more formulaic marketing dribble.

My level of confidence in Carlton as an organisation is diminishing with the way this news is 'breaking'.
Click to expand...
Yep, you would want to hear from someone from Ikon Park very soon.
 

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HARKER said:
Good post and covers a lot of relevant ground.

I always get back to the head honcho who by design or default, seems to get his way with the 'friends' he brings into the club - Silvagni, Judd.
He also backed Bolton to the hilt but ultimately had to relent for the pressure that was abound at the time....but somehow that's OK.

This situation has been festering for a long time and if there is no way to resolve it, pull the band-aid, as others have said.
Let Silvagni walk, move on Brodie and any other links by way of friendships and start again. fu** it!
Click to expand...
And keep the members up to date.
 
smashbox gill said:
So after 20 years of poor list management and recruiting we finally get it right, and then cause our new CEO (who has done an excellent job) wants to stick his fingers in and make a mark, undermines and gets involved in areas outside his skill set.

Bloody annoyed with this one. We are not strong enough to have back room politics not affect us.

Sos has done an amazing job in 4 years, blind Freddy can see that.

So he goes and what happens if the next one in is below par. Back to square one.

Hate this. Seriously hate this.
Click to expand...


We haven’t necessarily got List Management and Recruitment right after 20 years, what we have done in the past 5 years is to get it better.

We can do much better and if SOS isn’t the man so be it.

SOS will still be a great of the Carlton Football Club, his playing record will see to that.
 
Swapping SOS with Kinnear Beatson isn't exciting me much. Yeah he's played a hand in some premierships and his recent recruiting has been ok but... overall he's had a history of burning early picks, had some absolute howler drafts and while he's picked some great players with later picks, he's had a lot of misses. Not sure the list he's managing now is that flash.

To me he just seems like quite an average recruiter. I'd certainly take his best drafts but theres a lot I wouldn't touch.

If this is something Liddle is driving then I hope he's been diligent and taken a good look at who he's been drafting and how well he's used early picks.

It's a worry that we might have a CEO who is great at being a CEO but just might not get it when it comes to our list rebuild. I hope he's not someone who feels like he needs to be seen doing something or interferes too much in departments with his own opinions.

SOS has done a great job and I'm ok with replacing him but it's got to be with an upgrade or at least an equivalent.

Timing might be ok but gee we need to get this right.
 
gbatman said:
Swapping SOS with Kinnear Beatson isn't exciting me much. Yeah he's played a hand in some premierships and his recent recruiting has been ok but... overall he's had a history of burning early picks, had some absolute howler drafts and while he's picked some great players with later picks, he's had a lot of misses. Not sure the list he's managing now is that flash.

To me he just seems like quite an average recruiter. I'd certainly take his best drafts but theres a lot I wouldn't touch.

If this is something Liddle is driving then I hope he's been diligent and taken a good look at who he's been drafting and how well he's used early picks.

It's a worry that we might have a CEO who is great at being a CEO but just might not get it when it comes to our list rebuild. I hope he's not someone who feels like he needs to be seen doing something or interferes too much in departments with his own opinions.

SOS has done a great job and I'm ok with replacing him but it's got to be with an upgrade or at least an equivalent.

Timing might be ok but gee we need to get this right.
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Agree completely. The first thing we got right since Malthouse was recruiting/trades through SOS. Probably the only exciting part of some bleak times. Would Hate to throw that away now.

SOS has paid fair price, not really missed any targets (given our attractiveness), and maximised the resources he had available (other than rookie/late picks). Very big shoes to fill in my opinion.

Sydney have a team that is propped up by Buddy and some very good academy kids. Can Beatson perform without the academy advantage?
 
therubbernub said:
Kelly
Shiel
Coniglio
Martin
Papley
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That's not really fair as most of those targets were reaches and some would have come about had have we simply paid more.

Our latter picks and rookie picks have been the issue for us. It can not be ignored and hasn't been.
 
therubbernub said:
Are any of these really SOS failures???
Kelly - stayed at current club. Was most likely going to Norf? Did we really have any chance?
Shiel - would you rather Walsh or Shiel? Happy with outcome and good work SOS to stay strong.
Coniglio - AFL made sure he stayed at GWS...
Martin - we may still get but far from a proven player so not the end of the World if we miss for the equivalent of pick #11-13 in trade.
Papley - 4 year contract meant SOS could not force it. Happy with outcome as he stayed at current club and we can try again.
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Macca43 said:
The report I read suggested issues with Liddle over Betts and Ellis and yet we didn't recruit Ellis and up to this point Teague has been mentioned as the driving force behind Betts (as well as the players according to reports from just yesterday). Even if these 2 issues were down to Liddle does it really sound logical that SOS will quit over "being forced"to take Betts for a meaningless pick and going through the process over Ellis?

If the recent trade period has shown anything it is that most of these rumours are BS and even if SOS does leave the reasons may be completely different.
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The players and Teague really wanted Betts.

It sounds like complete BS to me too. Someone who was committed wouldn't quit because they 'didn't gel' with the CEO, they'd just suck it up and get the job done.
 
toonozandy said:
Seriously, the amount of supporters on here pumping up SILVAGNI'S tyres. Liddle has done the right thing, as the last few drafts SOS has handled, have been nothing short of shambolic. His only good draft year was year one, since then nothing to jump up and down over!
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Move on you troll
 
Something that drives me crazy about this thread and this board is the ease in which posters take other posters opinions and pass them off as what’s actually going on.

There are many reasons why SOS might leave or be pushed and hopefully it comes out in due time, if Liddle and the board feel the need to move anyone on, I’m happy with that.

We can’t trust Liddle on one hand and then turn on him if he does something we don’t like, no one is bigger than the club and last names are not a reason to have anymore say than anyone else.

Lastly many here and criticising Liddle over supposedly pushing for Ellis against SOS but Teague gets a free pass for pushing for Betts.

If SOS wasn’t a Silvagni he wouldn’t get the same leeway he does here.
 
dangerousdane said:
Something that drives me crazy about this thread and this board is the ease in which posters take other posters opinions and pass them off as what’s actually going on.

There are many reasons why SOS might leave or be pushed and hopefully it comes out in due time, if Liddle and the board feel the need to move anyone on, I’m happy with that.

We can’t trust Liddle on one hand and then turn on him if he does something we don’t like, no one is bigger than the club and last names are not a reason to have anymore say than anyone else.

Lastly many here and criticising Liddle over supposedly pushing for Ellis against SOS but Teague gets a free pass for pushing for Betts.

If SOS wasn’t a Silvagni he wouldn’t get the same leeway he does here.
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If Liddle is interfering with list management he himself thinks he’s bigger than the club.

He’s interfering with things outside his skillset
 

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HARKER said:
That's not really fair as most of those targets were reaches and some would have come about had have we simply paid more.

Our latter picks and rookie picks have been the issue for us. It can not be ignored and hasn't been.
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This is true but it's far from a worry. It's not terrible, it's just average. It's also extremely comparable to Richmond's use of later picks and rookie picks when comparing both club's development timeframes.

Changing club environment and different targets, I think our hits will be a lot better later in the draft now.

Considering where we have been, where we are at I wouldn't take too much from a lack of later draft picks. We have picked up a few good ones during a period in our build where I wouldn't think we'd get many which is good. We're just coming into a period where we should start to bring in good players with later picks.
 
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Beer n Skittles said:
The players and Teague really wanted Betts.

It sounds like complete BS to me too. Someone who was committed wouldn't quit because they 'didn't gel' with the CEO, they'd just suck it up and get the job done.
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If he does go it would be much more likely that he went into the arrangement with a 5 year plan and now the 5 years is done and he wants to move on. Youngest child going into his final year of school - perhaps a less demanding lifestyle might appeal?

And you are right, the CEO is doing a great job, SOS is doing a great job, they don't have to like each other just have mutual respect and I find it hard that 2 blokes with the reputations they have couldn't manage that.
 
therubbernub said:
Kelly
Shiel
Coniglio
Martin
Papley
Click to expand...

We missed on one of them. And as much as I wanted Shiel, I'm very happy we didn't entertain the thought of giving up Sam Walsh to bring him in. Aren't you?

Martin will almost certainly end up at Carlton for free.

Kelly, Cogs, Papley all remained at their clubs. Not much we can do if they choose to re-sign or are not released from their contract.

toonozandy said:
Seriously, the amount of supporters on here pumping up SILVAGNI'S tyres. Liddle has done the right thing, as the last few drafts SOS has handled, have been nothing short of shambolic. His only good draft year was year one, since then nothing to jump up and down over!
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Shambolic?

Which drafts/selections in particular?

The reality is no year under Silvagni has been anywhere near that. Has had some misses, but that is no different to any list management team across the competition.
 
Swan supporters on their board seem to be happy enough with Kinnear Beatson, seem to think he would go well in a big Vic club where there is very little go home factor and they may well be right.

It would be a big call from Carlton to move SOS on but if we did bring someone in who is good then so be it.

A lot of the heavy lifting has been done and were set up well, just need to finish off the job.

I still wonder about his recruiting record but if he's having to put a line through too many then maybe that's a fair excuse.

As I've said before the performance of our 2020 team is the best way to judge Silvagni's performance as a recruiter. We're all going to have to sit back and wait for that.
 

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Opinion Stephen Silvagni

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