A Third Team In Sydney - It's Only a Matter Of Time !!

[BringBackTorps]

1. A follow-up to post # 1442 above, where the Daily Telegraph reported 10.1.20 that GR AF jnr. club nos. in some parts of Sydney exceed (including some traditional RL areas) jnr. RL club nos. (& possibly explain why AFLNSW/ACT's S. Graham has been promoted, to be the AFL National Game Development Manager in 2020).

GWS CEO D. Matthews stated, on 25.10.19, there has been a 30% increase in female AF "participation" nos. in WS in the last year. "Participation" is a rubbery term, so when the AF detailed participation figures for NSW are released soon, we can discern the club & school female competition increase.

Re the no. of jnr AF teams in WS, the article states they "have nearly doubled" in the last 5 years.

Further examples of the significant increase in GR AF in WS- & the undeniable effects of GWS, & their AFLW team, for the strong growth.

St.George Extends Partnership With GIANTS

St.George Bank has extended its partnership with GWS GIANTS for a further two years, including support to the elite team as well as investment in the growing grassroots footy participation across Western Sydney.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

2. D. Hill, former President of the NRL's North Sydney Bears (& ex-Chairman of the NSL & ABC) said in Sept.2019

"When I played juniors and grade (60's & 70's- my words) with Norths, the lower north shore...would have (had) 50 junior rugby league teams south of Marlborough Rd Willoughby when I was there. Now there are none" (due to the departure of the working class demographic from there).

Sound of the suburbs: could the NRL's past also be its future?

Why do clubs both deify and desert the smaller, local grounds?

www.theguardian.com

 

[Pippen94]

1. A follow-up to post # 1442 above, where the Daily Telegraph reported 10.1.20 that GR AF jnr. club nos. in some parts of Sydney exceed (including some traditional RL areas) jnr. RL club nos. (& possibly explain why AFLNSW/ACT's S. Graham has been promoted, to be the AFL National Game Development Manager in 2020).

GWS CEO D. Matthews stated, on 25.10.19, there has been a 30% increase in female AF "participation" nos. in WS in the last year. "Participation" is a rubbery term, so when the AF participation figures for NSW are released soon, we can discern the club & school female competition increase.

Re the no. of jnr AF teams in WS, they "have nearly doubled" in the last 5 years.

Further examples of the significant increase in GR AF in WS- & the undeniable effects of GWS, & their AFLW team, for the strong growth.

St.George Extends Partnership With GIANTS

St.George Bank has extended its partnership with GWS GIANTS for a further two years, including support to the elite team as well as investment in the growing grassroots footy participation across Western Sydney.

www.gwsgiants.com.au

2. D. Hill, former President of the NRL's North Sydney Bears, said in Sept.2019

"When I played juniors and grade (60's & 70's- my words) with Norths, the lower north shore...would have (had) 50 junior rugby league teams south of Willoughby when I was there. Now there are none" (due to the departure of the working class demographic from there).

Sound of the suburbs: could the NRL's past also be its future?

Why do clubs both deify and desert the smaller, local grounds?

www.theguardian.com

It's clear nobody posting in this thread other than me knows or has been to Western Sydney

 

[Les Malone]

It's clear nobody posting in this thread other than me knows or has been to Western Sydney

Incorrect, but that seems to be normal for you.

 

[Pippen94]

Incorrect, but that seems to be normal for you.

Birkenhead Point isn't Western Sydney

 

[BringBackTorps]

The AFL's ugly, scrappy congestion, very high no. of stoppages, low scoring etc is "acting as a hand-brake" on the increase of AFL popularity in NSW & Qld.
AF is having significant growth in NSW & Qld- but it would expand much further/more quickly when the traditional AF game style is restored
ie more free-flowing play, more high marking, more long kicking, more high scoring & more running with the ball & bouncing, more one-on-one contests etc..

AFL greats’ radical solutions to fix game’s biggest issues: congestion, goal kicking, skills

AFL greats’ radical solutions to fix game’s biggest issues

www.foxsports.com.au

Brad Scott, like his brother C. Scott & a multitude of other AF experts, has strong concerns about the ugly congestion etc.- & has been recruited to the AFL Competition Committee, to devise policies & Rules to return the game to its traditional style (& implement the AFL's own Charter Of The Game!).

GWS Chairman T. Shepherd said

"The sales pitch of our game in the north of Australia...is the fact it is fast and open...When you get the mauls going on, incredible congestion, it does ruin the spectacle".

GWS chief: 'Ugly' congested style impacting on AFL's northern sell

Greater Western Sydney chairman Tony Shepherd has raised concerns about the on-field look of the game.

www.theage.com.au

 

[Les Malone]

Birkenhead Point isn't Western Sydney

Seven Hills is.

More to the point David Hill made those remarks in a speech a number of years ago and he was correct, it is a point made by many others regarding RL on the North Shore and now Northern Beaches, it has basically disappeared.

And you are not.

 

[Tasmanian saint]

The membership numbers are no more inflated than any of the other clubs(besides probably the WA clubs). St Kilda for instance doesn't seem to avg 45k even with all those derbies.

We aren't the 1st club not to sell out our end in a GF either.
Pretty easy to talk it up when it's always in your home city no matter what.

Please post up the details of the other clubs that haven’t sold out there grand final ticket allocation I can’t think of any where the grand final is played is irrelevant as the other interstate clubs that have played in grand finals recently haven’t had any trouble selling there’s I herd reports they only sold 13,000 tickets for gf so it wasn’t like they just missed!

 

[Tasmanian saint]

only a decade.....better than NRL crowds and membership. Yes, different language.




Yes, it is a different and difficult sporting environment. You take it is a negative - I take it as a positive for what GWS have achieved.
As a Tasmanian, I thought you would be looking at positives to follow and being a companion team.

Im not sure how it’s a positive i think it shows with the nsw market that maybe gws crowds are not going to grow to much more then they currently are or were predicted when comparing to what heartland nrl clubs are getting who can afford to operate with small crowds due to the large amount of income they generate from there leagues clubs gws don’t have this luxury and I’m not sure what you mean with the Tasmanian and companion comment?

 

[Tasmanian saint]

O

Why the "if'. The Swans did drop away and they came through. All clubs drop support in lean patches just as clubs gain support in purple patches.

Of course crowds will go up and down with your on field performances that’s normal but with gws being a top 4 team and averaging just 12,000 can they afford there crowds to drop of much more then they currently are when the eventual down periods come I mean you would hate to see a club go back to the bears carrah days of struggling to get 5k to games I mean 12,000 is not sustainable let alone any less !

 

[Pippen94]

Seven Hills is.

More to the point David Hill made those remarks in a speech a number of years ago and he was correct, it is a point made by many others regarding RL on the North Shore and now Northern Beaches, it has basically disappeared.

And you are not.

The only professional team in the area are the Sea Eagles who pack Brookvale every time there's a big match. Manly & Warringah rugby clubs got crowd of 10,000 for sem-pro derby last year - so not quite disappeared. You're boasting about auskick numbers.

 

[Les Malone]

The only professional team in the area are the Sea Eagles who pack Brookvale every time there's a big match. Manly & Warringah rugby clubs got crowd of 10,000 for sem-pro derby last year - so not quite disappeared. You're boasting about auskick numbers.

Wrong,

North Sydney RL has disappeared so has grass roots RL on the North shore, the Northern beaches grass roots are not far behind and Manly plays from a dilapidated stadium and is constantly mooted for the CC which would make sense as they actually have decent support for the game on the CC.

In fact in 2018 Manly RL crowds were the worst in 50 years.

 

[Pippen94]

Wrong,

North Sydney RL has disappeared so has grass roots RL on the North shore, the Northern beaches grass roots are not far behind and Manly plays from a dilapidated stadium and is constantly mooted for the CC which would make sense as they actually have decent support for the game on the CC.

In fact in 2018 Manly RL crowds were the worst in 50 years.

Wrong? So Sea Eagles aren't pro sporting team?
Home attendance 2019;
Sea Eagles 13777
gws 12267

Relocation to Canberra?

 

[Les Malone]

Wrong? So Sea Eagles aren't pro sporting team?
Home attendance 2019;
Sea Eagles 13777
gws 12267

Relocation to Canberra?

If only you could get something right for once it would be a miracle, we are talking about Brookvale and the Northern Beaches.

Rugby League Tables / Attendances /Brookvale

Rugby League Tables - NRL Stats & Tables

afltables.com

2019 Brookvale home attendance.

11,216

They have a s**t stadium and in IMO a disappearing supporter and grass roots player base which actually can be proven by the contracting of junior teams over successive seasons.

They will move, the CC is a good spot.

 

[Pippen94]

If only you could get something right for once it would be a miracle, we are talking about Brookvale and the Northern Beaches.

Rugby League Tables / Attendances /Brookvale

Rugby League Tables - NRL Stats & Tables

afltables.com

2019 Brookvale home attendance.

11,216

They have a s**t stadium and in IMO a disappearing supporter and grass roots player base which actually can be proven by the contracting of junior teams over successive seasons.

They will move, the CC is a good spot.

Ha, talk of low support yet your team in a GF year got lower home crowds.
Off topic Sea Eagles have lodged application to rebuild grand stand at Brookvale in 2021.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Daily Telegraph B. Horne 29.9.19

GWS CEO D. Matthews states (after the GF) what he expects GWS to achieve in the next few years. One prediction is that GWS will have c. 40,000 members in 2020.
(As this article is behind a paywall, can anyone open it please?).

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

No Cookies

www.dailytelegraph.com.au

Before Christmas 2019, GWS had 21,098 members, c. 6,000 above the same time in 2018. The 30,100 members GWS had in 2019 made it one of the biggest memberships in NSW. Considering GWS only started in 2012, c. 40,000 members in 2020 would be an extraordinary achievement. GWS were regularly flogged in their first few years.

 

[RedV3x]

maybe gws crowds are not going to grow to much more

Maybe they will.
GWS attract a young crowd so there is a good possibility of generational change.

 

[RedV3x]

gws being a top 4 team

You obviously have forgotten their early years.

 

[BringBackTorps]

I’m not sure what you mean with the Tasmanian and companion comment?

1. The current formal Tas. Bid is NOT attacking GWS or GC. On the contrary, it can use their creation- & GR success- to boost its own chances of being the 19th team c.2025.

Before GWS started in 2012, GR AF jnr club nos. in Sydney's WS were very small. From 2012, however, the no. of jnr teams has had strong growth, trebling to c. 180 jnr club teams in WS alone.

Not included in the c. 180 jnr WS teams are Club Auskick kids (since Club jnr AF competition games don't start until U 9's. Club Auskick is for kids 5 y.o- 8 y.o.)
There would be approx. 4,000+ kids in in Club Auskick in Sydney.
With approx. 13,000 additional kids in jnr club teams in 2019, the total in metro. Sydney would be c. 20,000 club kids.

The total no. of club jnr AF teams in all metro Sydney has risen from 277 in 2012 to 665 jnr teams in 2019 (again, these nos. don't include kids 5 y.o- 8 y.o.). This represents a huge boost for AF in Sydney.

Fixtures & Results - AFL Sydney Juniors

Please select your region from the options below. From here you can select your competition from the drop-down box. Wet Weather Check – Ground Closures Sydney Harbour Western Sydney Independent Schools

aflsj.com.au

(then click on "Western Sydney" & "Sydney Harbour" for the list of all jnr teams & clubs, in all age groups, in metro Sydney since 2012. One can tab down from "2020" column, to go to 2012 etc. lists of teams)


In this thread, there are over 20 MSM acknowledgements from current & former RU, RL & soccer officials & players about the recent strong AF growth in Sydney since GWS started- some say it poses a direct threat to RU & RL.

The ACT has also had strong growth since 2012, & would probably have a record no. of regd. jnr club players now (after declining significantly from 1982, when the Raiders entered the NRL). GR AF nos. now surpass GR RL regd. nos. in the ACT.

Players drafted into the AFL from the ACT & Sthn. NSW had declined significantly from the late 1990's to c. 2011. From 2012, with the creation of GWS & its Academies in WS, ACT & Sthn. NSW, drafted player nos. have risen significantly.

There are now a record approx. 100 players in the AFL who came originally from NSW, ACT & Qld. (& a few from the NT).

It is incontrovertible that it is the creation of an AFL club GWS, & the Academies, that has directly led to this strong growth.
The logical corollary also applies. By not having its own AFL team & tribalism, an elite AFL club that locals can aspire to, together with the elite pathways & expertise, Tasmanian AF will be severely disadvantaged. The absence, therefore, is directly responsible for Tas. GR male club nos. & drafted players being in decline.



2. In the AFL announcement of S. Graham's promotion from AFLNSW/ACT, to become the National Game Development Manager, it reports the record growth of AF in NSW & ACT (in adult males, females & jnrs.).
S. Graham said " I will still have oversight of the growth of the game in this (NSW/ACT) market, and I am confident...(we will- my words) continue the momentum we have built".

It also states that NSW is 2nd only to Victoria in female regd. participant nos. This is a great achievement for AF in NSW where, in the last decade, Qld. was 2nd to Vic. in regd. female participant nos. (Admittedly, NSW has, relatively, very high female school- not club- participant nos.).

AF in NSW/ACT, assuming this strong growth continues, can be expected to become a powerhouse in AF from 2030- & will probably start to challenge WA for drafted players into the AFL; & overtake SA.
(By comparison, the SANFL jnr. comps. in Adelaide have c. 12,500 jnr male & female club players in 2019. This does not include the thousands in Adelaide Club Auskick, for 5 y.o. -8 y.o.)

AFL NSW/ACT CEO Sam Graham to take up national States and Game Development Role - AFL NSW / ACT

The AFL is proud to announce that AFL NSW/ACT CEO Sam Graham has been appointed to the national role Head of States and Game Development. Over the last five years, Sam has been the CEO of AFL NSW/ACT, where…Read more ›

aflnswact.com.au

 

[RedV3x]

Ha, talk of low support yet your team in a GF year got lower home crowds.

I don't know how you can be flippant with northside rl. The NRL has lost North Sydney and Manly look to follow.
GWS average crowds are much higher than every NRL team bar the Broncos.!
Ther is a lot of promise withe the GWS with memberships and onfield appearance.

Off topic Sea Eagles have lodged application to rebuild grand stand at Brookvale in 2021.

Yes, another example of a total waste of money. NSW politicians have a long history of wasting money on unneeded stadiums.
Tony Abott was the reason for Manly discussion. Even Scomo hasn't suggested Cronulla.
I bet the Liberals wished they hadn't gone down the gratuitous stadium path.

 

[RedV3x]

The current formal Tas. Bid is not attacking GWS or GC- on the contrary, it can use their creation- & GR success- to boost its own chances of being the 19th team c.2025.

Exactly. Which argument sounds better?
"We should have a Tasmanian team because GWS is a failure" or
"We should have a Tasmanian team because we can learn from GWS success"

 

[Colonial]

It's clear nobody posting in this thread other than me knows or has been to Western Sydney

Yeah ok Wanderbaby.

Time to give yourself an uppercut.

 

[Pippen94]

I don't know how you can be flippant with northside rl. The NRL has lost North Sydney and Manly look to follow.
GWS average crowds are much higher than every NRL team bar the Broncos.!
Ther is a lot of promise withe the GWS with memberships and onfield appearance.



Yes, another example of a total waste of money. NSW politicians have a long history of wasting money on unneeded stadiums.
Tony Abott was the reason for Manly discussion. Even Scomo hasn't suggested Cronulla.
I bet the Liberals wished they hadn't gone down the gratuitous stadium path.

Doesn't anybody here know anything about anything? Sharks own stadium.
No talk of Manly relocating to CC - in fact Mariners were slated to move to Brookvale.
State & local government built ground for afl at Blacktown before being burnt by gws - at least locals would want Brookvale upgrade.

 

[Colonial]

Please post up the details of the other clubs that haven’t sold out there grand final ticket allocation I can’t think of any where the grand final is played is irrelevant as the other interstate clubs that have played in grand finals recently haven’t had any trouble selling there’s I herd reports they only sold 13,000 tickets for gf so it wasn’t like they just missed!

Heard Freo was one.


Once again pretty easy to talk up a GF attendance when it's a home city game no matter what for your lot.

13k? Looked more Orange than that on the day.

 

[Colonial]

Doesn't anybody here know anything about anything? Sharks own stadium.
No talk of Manly relocating to CC - in fact Mariners were slated to move to Brookvale.
State & local government built ground for afl at Blacktown before being burnt by gws - at least locals would want Brookvale upgrade.

Nah just talk of Sharks/Tigers/Manly moving to Adelaide or Perth.
Oh and the Bears taking over the Titans.

 

[Pippen94]

1. The current formal Tas. Bid is not attacking GWS or GC- on the contrary, it can use their creation- & GR success- to boost its own chances of being the 19th team c.2025.

Before GWS started in 2012, GR AF jnr club nos. in Sydney's WS were very small. From 2012, however, the no. of jnr teams has had strong growth, trebling to almost c. jnr club180 teams in WS alone.

Not included in the c. 180 teams are Club Auskick kids (since Club jnr AF competition games don't start until U 9's. Auskick is for kids 5 y.o- 8 y.o.)
There would be approx. 4,000+ kids in in Club Auskick in Sydney.
With approx. 13,000 additional kids in jnr club teams, the total in metro. Sydney would be c. 20,000 kids.

The total no. of club jnr AF teams in all metro Sydney has risen from 277 in 2012 to 665 jnr teams in 2019 (again, these nos. don't include kids 5 y.o- 8 y.o.). This represents a huge boost for AF in Sydney.

Fixtures & Results - AFL Sydney Juniors

Please select your region from the options below. From here you can select your competition from the drop-down box. Wet Weather Check – Ground Closures Sydney Harbour Western Sydney Independent Schools

aflsj.com.au

(then click on "Western Sydney" & "Sydney Harbour" for the list of all jnr teams, in all age groups, in metro Sydney since 2012. One can tab down from 2020, to go to 2012 lists of teams)


In this thread, there are over 20 MSM acknowledgements from current & former RU, RL & soccer officials & players about the recent strong AF growth in Sydney since GWS started- some say it poses a direct threat to RU & RL.

The ACT has also had strong growth since 2012, & would probably have a record no. of regd. jnr club players now (after declining significantly from 1982, when the Raiders entered the NRL). GR AF nos. now surpass GR RL regd. nos. in the ACT.

Players drafted into the AFL from the ACT & Sthn. NSW had declined significantly from the late 1990's to c. 2011. From 2012, with the creation of GWS & its Academies in WS, ACT & Sthn. NSW, drafted player nos. have risen significantly.

There are now a record approx. 100 players in the AFL who came originally from NSW, ACT & Qld. (& a few from the NT).

It is incontrovertible that it is the creation of an AFL club GWS, & the Academies, that has directly led to this strong growth.
The logical corollary also applies. By not having its own AFL team, an elite AFL club that locals can aspire to, together with the elite pathways & expertise, Tasmanian AF will be severely disadvantaged. The absence, therefore, is directly responsible for Tas. GR male club nos. & drafted players being in decline.


2. In the AFL announcement of S. Graham's promotion from AFLNSW/ACT, to become the National Game Development Manager, it states that NSW is 2nd only to Victoria in female regd. participant nos. This is a great achievement for AF in NSW where, in the last decade, Qld. was 2nd to Vic. in regd. female participant nos.
AF in NSW, assuming this strong growth continues, can be expected to become a powerhouse in AF in the next decade- & probably begin to challenge WA & SA for drafted players into the AFL.

AFL NSW/ACT CEO Sam Graham to take up national States and Game Development Role - AFL NSW / ACT

The AFL is proud to announce that AFL NSW/ACT CEO Sam Graham has been appointed to the national role Head of States and Game Development. Over the last five years, Sam has been the CEO of AFL NSW/ACT, where…Read more ›

aflnswact.com.au

Average crowd down to 12,000 (dubious)
Average Sydney TV audience less 30,000
Couldn't sell GF allotment of fan tickets - has that happened before?
Yet 40,000 members. Bullshit!